There is this thing as freedom to choose. I personally am vegetarian, (but still eat dairy), but I fully respect peoples right to eat meat, or to be vegan if that is what they want. I hate it when people try to guilt trip others into their own view.
ThomasJ you are one of the idiots who is a vegetarian because of a weight problem or for wanting a less stinky fart.
You eat vegetables but do not respect life that breathes. ie, Killing animals is OK. (Do not wish to get into an argument about vegetarianism as the original post regarding animal milk itself is not worht maiking it into the UK-IMC newswire in my opinion.)
Killing animals, be it humans in the occupied Ireland, Palestine, Iraq, Paupua, Texas or the ones that walk with four legs or those that fly or those that swim is not OK and it is time this view is imposed upon the babarians who take another life without any respect for nature.
Why I spend time writing all this is because I fear you also exemplify the prevalent 'UK - pig' (two legged vareity) thinking that 'the protestors marching and parliament voting is all OK and everythign is runnign smoothly' and humans should not impose their views of non-violence on the likes of you.
You can't know what I think having just from one paragraph I have written.
So bascially, you can't pass judgement on my beleifs like that.
Animal welfare IS one of the reasons why I am veggie. But I also know better than to force that down other peoples throats.
But then, you will probably never know the real truth about me, because you are so eagar to jump to ill concieved conclusions, and then make judgement on people.
In the one paragraph you clearly state 'I fully respect peoples right to eat meat....'
Do you realise that meat does not land in the plate from nowhere. The animal has to be murdered first.
I understand when you claim that you care about animal welfare .....more about you....animal welfare by some standard if maintained then the animal can be murdered???? ---get a life!
I know you but I definitely do not know what you think that is exactly why I use the keywords 'I fear' in what you percieve as a judgement.
Whatever and abandoning the truth when it is so close to you is not the right way forward. Sit down and think. Killing is wrong.
under UK law, milk is allowed to be up to 15% pus. or thereabouts. this comes from the infected nipples of dairy cows whose calves are taken from them and natural lactation pumped way beyond what is healthy through the use of weird chemicals.
If PETA wants to desuade people from drinking milk on ethical or animal welfair grounds, fine let them put up an argument and be open about it. It is irresponsible for them to suggest that lots of people are lactose intolerant. Some folk are but not that many and I fear that PETA are guilty of fueling hypochondia and eating disorders. Lots of people think they are vaguely intollerant or allegic to food. Some of them are and need to be recognised as such but plenty of them are just neurotic or fussy
Please be clear about this. Do not kill. When you kill or support killing a culture of babarism is nurtured.
Pus in milk is a crime and the animal suffers unneccesarily. Loving relationship between mammals where milk is shared is an ancient way that is not babaric.
Killing is babric (were vikings, Ghengis Khan's marauding army, Romans barbarinas or not?). This is why the current UK population is overwhelmingly babaric.
It has been scientificalyl prooven by suprressing various known glands in test cases that meat in natural form (ie, killed from an animal with the glands working normally) contain hormones that cross barriers across species. Adrenalin is only the tip of the iceberg. At the instance an animal is killed its biochemical composition deposited in meat is that of a killed animal.
Also it has been prooved that milk also contains many hormones that vary according to the satisfaction factor of the mammal being milk. Hormones secreted under these conditions promote loving human nature. (Anyone kissed/smooged a female human's tits when she was willing?)
Dont kill and someone show me a piece of meat that was produced without killing and I will rest my case.
Just by walking, by taking a shower, even by eating (this applies even to the most extreme of vegans), you are responsible for the murder of millions of microrgaisms. You cannot live without killing something, even breathing is a murderous activity. My attitudes to vegitarianism are mine and mine alone, and I would soon have no friends if i was to continously preach to them about the wrongs of eating meat.
I think killing an animal to eat is fine, what is not so ethical is for another person, factory or corporation to kill and torture animals for you to eat, or make creams, or animal testing, and this is why I am a vegetarian. I don't want to kill animals myself, so I eat something else, this is my way to be against the money making industry that tortures animals for profit.
Why turn your body into a graveyard for animals? Where's the respect for yourself, and for the animal kingdom? To say eating meat is not an ignorant thing to do is beyond comprehension. It's not peaceful, kind, humane, nor offers any kind of libertarian thinking when it comes to the rights of peaceful existance for animals.
The holocaust for animals continues everyday in factory farms and vivisection laboratories, all the time backed up by this bigotted way of thinking. Slavery continues as animals are trained and abused by their human masters for profit. We thought you people here were against these horrors??
It seems like some people just can't stop thinking only of themselves and their own species as they drone endlessly on about 'the new world' they have in sight.
While there is much truth in the article, and certainly milk can be dangerous for some people, veganism is not a real option for the majority of people. It is hard to get all the necessary vitamins you need if you are a vegetarian, and even harder if you are a vegan. And if you are on low income, i think it is nearly impossible to live healthily as a vegan or a vegetarian. ( yes i have the experience) Also, while i do believe that animals have rights and i am against fox hunting etc, animals are not the same as humans. Yes, killing a cow is less than killing a human being, and i have no moral qualm with eathing beef,. but that does not mean that i believe that cows have no moral stature whatsoever, or that they can be tortured etc etc. I think you have to be mad to seriously believe that killing infants in palestine of africa is the same as killing cows or sheep in britain.
Leaving the utterly confused TJC and his baric friends alone (TJC get new friends) Dr. Know : Another idiot you.
DO you know why meat is cheaper than non-meat products in the UK. It is becuse UK is a fucked up place not just for the queen and shit also fior artificially defying laws and balance of nature.
Theoretically it takes 10 tims more resources to produce equivalent weight of anything one step higher on the foodchin. Practically it the ratio is even more. So how come meat is cheap? Figure it out dud head.
Where did you get the details about vitamins and other bullshit?
As for equaling all life as equal I have more to add.... they are precious too you moron!
Did you know at the height of the famine in Ethiopia (the one for which we had new marketing strategis in music with Music Aid and other totally useless pig swill) the food destroyed in the then EEC itself to maintain stable market prices (incidently they were mostly vegetables and milk based products) itself twice surpassed the requirement of all worlds starving.
The situtaion is not too different even now with all the subsidies handed out so that farmers will not grow food.
All this is not taking into account the resources of occupied North American plains!
Can you imagine WTF is happening. Stop your crocodile tears for the children of distant lands for whom you do not give a shit ...all you care is about your stomach...exactly like most of the UK populace. If anything you care more about consuming other unwanted crap like fossil fuels than children in Africa
Lets face it: veggyism is for rich middle class who (as always) have the cash to live 'ethically'...whilst looking down their noses at those too poor to buy PETA approved food,,and who enjoy a tasty ham sandwich after a hard day...
,,,you middle class types go tell single working class parents that they should let the kids starve rather than give em some meat/cheap food
the alf is stupid a bunch of spoilt middle class students...youd get a slap if you actually tried that with real people
...she wouldn't have made them out of meat, would she?
Perhaps if veggies (esp the ever-rabid ram) got enough protein they'd be able to figure this out for themselves.
Every other animal on the planet that *can* eat meat does, and why should we be any different.
Even some *plants* eat meat, for fucks sake.
All veggies are guilty of the most insidious form of "species-ism", because they refuse to accept that vegetables are also living things which need to be killed to be eaten.
Just 'cos they don't bleed blood or scream (audibly) and thrash about don't mean nuttin.
before calling anyone 'irresponsible', please note that MOST HUMANS ARE INDEED LACTOSE-INTOLERANT, i.e. their bodies are unable to produce lactase, which is needed to break down the lactose found in animal milk. the ability to produce lactase is a relatively recent mutation and has not spread much throughout the human species.
this info is widely suppressed to boost status quo (state-sponsored) agribusiness in the West, but the percentage breakdowns are pretty dramatic: while northern europeans (such as swedes) are almost 100% lactose-tolerant, this figure goes down to about 30% for han chinese, 25% for african-americans, and nearly 0% for first nations peoples / inuit.
lactose intolerance is difficult to detect on a large scale, as it manifests itself mainly through 'minor' ailments such as indigestion, headaches, diarrhea, and skin problems. for most people, these ailments are such a common occurrence that they aren't taken seriously -- this is compounded by the fact that the gigantic pharmaceutical industry 'normalizes' lactose-intolerance ailments by marketing pain relievers and indigestion drugs as 'everyday' over-the-counter items. big pharma's recent efforts even go so far as to promote daily 'preventative' use of indigestion drugs (such as "Pepcid AC" for example), further masking the fact that there are easily addressable CAUSES for such problems.
on a personal note, as a vegan, i can tell you that frequent headaches and indigestion are NOT a 'normal' thing for me -- in fact, they are an extremely rare occurrence since i've stopped consuming dairy products. ditto for skin problems, which are caused largely by the caseine (glue-like protein) and pus found in animal milk.
with some of you who keep targetting me personally ? :-)
Don't like to hear the truth?
As one idiot above correctly put it again meat is cheap against all laws of nature in the UK. Again I point out UK is a fucked up place. This is also true in the US and few other industrialised countries. Thgis is a the fuck up I am pointing out. Milk producst and the methods of productions definitely stink in these countries. The people of these countries are largely pigs because of what they eat so blindly.
The facts about the middle class phoney 'veggyism' is also true but not that important as the consumption of animal hormones and other agro chemical (hey Chemical Kelly might have played a part in this conspiracy too) that has become a direct threat to the peace and harmonious future of our planet. This has to stop or the pigs have to go to Mars or wherever!
As for the vegan with all the statistics (from where? No. 10 Downing st.?) the First Nation does not breast feed? They use Nestle formula do they, eh? (Keep your lactase/lactose theory to yourself sorry self)
As much as some of us would see better communicative future via the internet and related technologies I (along with billions of others) clearly see that a way ehreby we consume what nature gives us (ie, fruits, vegetables, milk, honey etc.) in a way that harmonius future is possible is the human (and humane) way to do things. Is this wrong? If some want to avoid animal products I appreciate their vigour if their aim is along a progressive path.
All you other babaric fuucks fuck off if you threaten our and our children's future directly by your murderous rampages. Eat healthy think healthy.
You remind me of the nothing-but-skin-and-bones 20 year old I met who while CHAIN SMOKING told everyone within earshot of how much healthier she felt since becoming a vegetarian!
Myself, I'm proud to be at the top of the food chain and looking forward to a nice Salmon filet this evening!
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pig perspective?
21.08.2003 10:59
I infact know a cat that grew on dog milk.
Milk is lovely and is to treated with respect.
Go attack the ways of the pigs instead of human ways.
ram
Also matey
21.08.2003 11:29
Thomas J
let me get it
21.08.2003 12:06
You eat vegetables but do not respect life that breathes. ie, Killing animals is OK.
(Do not wish to get into an argument about vegetarianism as the original post regarding animal milk itself is not worht maiking it into the UK-IMC newswire in my opinion.)
Killing animals, be it humans in the occupied Ireland, Palestine, Iraq, Paupua, Texas or the ones that walk with four legs or those that fly or those that swim is not OK and it is time this view is imposed upon the babarians who take another life without any respect for nature.
Why I spend time writing all this is because I fear you also exemplify the prevalent 'UK - pig' (two legged vareity) thinking that 'the protestors marching and parliament voting is all OK and everythign is runnign smoothly' and humans should not impose their views of non-violence on the likes of you.
There should eb no freedom ofr piggy ways.
ram
Whatever.
21.08.2003 12:45
You don't know me.
You don't know what I really think.
You can't know what I think having just from one paragraph I have written.
So bascially, you can't pass judgement on my beleifs like that.
Animal welfare IS one of the reasons why I am veggie. But I also know better than to force that down other peoples throats.
But then, you will probably never know the real truth about me, because you are so eagar to jump to ill concieved conclusions, and then make judgement on people.
I ptiy you.
Thomas J
Thomas J :
21.08.2003 13:21
Do you realise that meat does not land in the plate from nowhere.
The animal has to be murdered first.
I understand when you claim that you care about animal welfare .....more about you....animal welfare by some standard if maintained then the animal can be murdered???? ---get a life!
I know you but I definitely do not know what you think that is exactly why I use the keywords 'I fear' in what you percieve as a judgement.
Whatever and abandoning the truth when it is so close to you is not the right way forward.
Sit down and think.
Killing is wrong.
ram
Eat Meat
21.08.2003 13:41
The Vikings ate It
The Hordes of Gengis Khan ate It.
The Romans Ate it.
Eat a Nice piece of Bacon, in a wholemeal sandwich right now
Steve Wallis
pus
21.08.2003 13:49
what's that on your cereal mate?
zz
PETA is irresponsible
21.08.2003 13:54
Tim
Don't kill
21.08.2003 14:21
Do not kill.
When you kill or support killing a culture of babarism is nurtured.
Pus in milk is a crime and the animal suffers unneccesarily. Loving relationship between mammals where milk is shared is an ancient way that is not babaric.
Killing is babric (were vikings, Ghengis Khan's marauding army, Romans barbarinas or not?).
This is why the current UK population is overwhelmingly babaric.
It has been scientificalyl prooven by suprressing various known glands in test cases that meat in natural form (ie, killed from an animal with the glands working normally) contain hormones that cross barriers across species. Adrenalin is only the tip of the iceberg. At the instance an animal is killed its biochemical composition deposited in meat is that of a killed animal.
Also it has been prooved that milk also contains many hormones that vary according to the satisfaction factor of the mammal being milk. Hormones secreted under these conditions promote loving human nature.
(Anyone kissed/smooged a female human's tits when she was willing?)
Dont kill and someone show me a piece of meat that was produced without killing and I will rest my case.
ram
Living is murder at the end of the day
21.08.2003 14:47
Thomas J
what ever the case
21.08.2003 15:16
information is power
torture for profit
21.08.2003 16:18
tonraa
WHY?
21.08.2003 16:20
The holocaust for animals continues everyday in factory farms and vivisection laboratories, all the time backed up by this bigotted way of thinking. Slavery continues as animals are trained and abused by their human masters for profit. We thought you people here were against these horrors??
It seems like some people just can't stop thinking only of themselves and their own species as they drone endlessly on about 'the new world' they have in sight.
Total animal liberation or nothing.
A.L.F
the workers need to be strong to overthrow capitalism
21.08.2003 16:27
dr know
Dr Do Not Know
21.08.2003 17:26
Dr. Know : Another idiot you.
DO you know why meat is cheaper than non-meat products in the UK.
It is becuse UK is a fucked up place not just for the queen and shit also fior artificially defying laws and balance of nature.
Theoretically it takes 10 tims more resources to produce equivalent weight of anything one step higher on the foodchin.
Practically it the ratio is even more.
So how come meat is cheap? Figure it out dud head.
Where did you get the details about vitamins and other bullshit?
As for equaling all life as equal I have more to add.... they are precious too you moron!
Did you know at the height of the famine in Ethiopia (the one for which we had new marketing strategis in music with Music Aid and other totally useless pig swill) the food destroyed in the then EEC itself to maintain stable market prices (incidently they were mostly vegetables and milk based products) itself twice surpassed the requirement of all worlds starving.
The situtaion is not too different even now with all the subsidies handed out so that farmers will not grow food.
All this is not taking into account the resources of occupied North American plains!
Can you imagine WTF is happening.
Stop your crocodile tears for the children of distant lands for whom you do not give a shit ...all you care is about your stomach...exactly like most of the UK populace.
If anything you care more about consuming other unwanted crap like fossil fuels than children in Africa
ram
Saving Your Bacon
22.08.2003 13:54
,,,you middle class types go tell single working class parents that they should let the kids starve rather than give em some meat/cheap food
the alf is stupid a bunch of spoilt middle class students...youd get a slap if you actually tried that with real people
smash alf!
KRGR
If God didn't want us to eat animals...
22.08.2003 15:01
Perhaps if veggies (esp the ever-rabid ram) got enough protein they'd be able to figure this out for themselves.
Every other animal on the planet that *can* eat meat does, and why should we be any different.
Even some *plants* eat meat, for fucks sake.
All veggies are guilty of the most insidious form of "species-ism", because they refuse to accept that vegetables are also living things which need to be killed to be eaten.
Just 'cos they don't bleed blood or scream (audibly) and thrash about don't mean nuttin.
Soz, its true.
Top of the food chain and happy with it
most humans ARE lactose-intolerant
22.08.2003 16:55
this info is widely suppressed to boost status quo (state-sponsored) agribusiness in the West, but the percentage breakdowns are pretty dramatic: while northern europeans (such as swedes) are almost 100% lactose-tolerant, this figure goes down to about 30% for han chinese, 25% for african-americans, and nearly 0% for first nations peoples / inuit.
lactose intolerance is difficult to detect on a large scale, as it manifests itself mainly through 'minor' ailments such as indigestion, headaches, diarrhea, and skin problems. for most people, these ailments are such a common occurrence that they aren't taken seriously -- this is compounded by the fact that the gigantic pharmaceutical industry 'normalizes' lactose-intolerance ailments by marketing pain relievers and indigestion drugs as 'everyday' over-the-counter items.
big pharma's recent efforts even go so far as to promote daily 'preventative' use of indigestion drugs (such as "Pepcid AC" for example), further masking the fact that there are easily addressable CAUSES for such problems.
on a personal note, as a vegan, i can tell you that frequent headaches and indigestion are NOT a 'normal' thing for me -- in fact, they are an extremely rare occurrence since i've stopped consuming dairy products.
ditto for skin problems, which are caused largely by the caseine (glue-like protein) and pus found in animal milk.
anon
What is the problem
22.08.2003 19:18
Don't like to hear the truth?
As one idiot above correctly put it again meat is cheap against all laws of nature in the UK.
Again I point out UK is a fucked up place. This is also true in the US and few other industrialised countries. Thgis is a the fuck up I am pointing out. Milk producst and the methods of productions definitely stink in these countries.
The people of these countries are largely pigs because of what they eat so blindly.
The facts about the middle class phoney 'veggyism' is also true but not that important as the consumption of animal hormones and other agro chemical (hey Chemical Kelly might have played a part in this conspiracy too) that has become a direct threat to the peace and harmonious future of our planet.
This has to stop or the pigs have to go to Mars or wherever!
As for the vegan with all the statistics (from where? No. 10 Downing st.?) the First Nation does not breast feed? They use Nestle formula do they, eh? (Keep your lactase/lactose theory to yourself sorry self)
As much as some of us would see better communicative future via the internet and related technologies I (along with billions of others) clearly see that a way ehreby we consume what nature gives us (ie, fruits, vegetables, milk, honey etc.) in a way that harmonius future is possible is the human (and humane) way to do things.
Is this wrong?
If some want to avoid animal products I appreciate their vigour if their aim is along a progressive path.
All you other babaric fuucks fuck off if you threaten our and our children's future directly by your murderous rampages.
Eat healthy think healthy.
ram
why do so many vegans look so unhealthy??
23.08.2003 20:39
Dr. know
Yeah ram, I've met your type before
10.10.2003 20:18
Myself, I'm proud to be at the top of the food chain and looking forward to a nice Salmon filet this evening!
Flaming Sword
I am amazed that there is so much ignorance about these issues . . .
09.12.2003 12:35
vegan