surely true anti-capitalists are fighting against capitalism for an emancipated future society and not facing a "secret world government" nonsense ripped out of the russioan secret police manual. Capitalism is not a dictatorship but an abstract form of control and it´s about time people realised this....

anti-capitalists are fighting to change the economic and social system of capitalism and NOT putting responsibility on the individuals who are in those positions and make the resulting economic judgements. Capitalism is the problem and revolution the answer. All those films about bad and evil people weren´t real.

Now tell me this is such a secret and powerful group that their documentary gets put on Radio 4 where nobody will ever no about it.....

Don´t anti-fascist, women´s and environmental groups also meet in secret?

Don´t fight the player- Fight the Game!

Don´t fight the player- Fight the Game!

A truely great slogan. However, to continue in a sporting methaphor, do your reseach on the opposition. Its no mystery why teams like Arsenal expend so much effort in 'spying & prying' on the competition ... it pays off.

Now, I'm not about to give up my earth given rights and responsibilities to any grouping (at least not without a fight), so I don't beleive that the infomation concerning this very real, very powerful and very secretive organisation (which basically operates as an arm of 'international government') should make anyone despair or give up on an equitable future and peace, but ...

... it has to be said that the more info that we can put into the public domain about this group, the better it will be for our chances, for they are a grouping that have their roots firmly in nazi soil - prince bernhard of the Netherlands (born an aristrocratic German), former[?] SS officer, member of the grand council of knights (Heinrich Himmlers daft but scary and deadly Black magic secret society[sic]) and major shareholder in IGFarben/ibm, dutch shell oil and unilever, was the first chaiman.

Other attendies at the 1954 meeting in Oosterbeek at the hotel Bilderberg, from which the grouping took their name, were Victor Rothchild - mastermind of the uk's wartime spyring, probably the 'fith man' and paymaster general of the many shadowy zionist terror gangs, david Rockerfeller - probably the richest man in the us at the time and chairman of the rockerfeeler institute (which had lasting and meaningful ties with the third riech and variuos eugenics movements responsible forthe program of mass sterialisations in the us, canada, and across nothern europe and the comonwealth via Churchills [Malborough family] man Lord Boothby -also an attendee) .... the frightful list goes on ...

... the point being, yes we must build up various and diverse communities to oppose the domination of that peculiar viral mime that is capitalism, but we must know who is pullin waht strings also - I mean all this fuss about spin ali is focused in part on the facts that a] he is unelected & b] he is unaccountable and under limited responsibilty to reveal what he knows ... surely the same thing must apply to a super rich, super powerful, super secretive intenational grouping that seek to control and direct our lives?

This is vital stuff ...

peace

Agreed jackslucid,but I believe the many mbs contributing to this line are fighting in a delusion for an illusion - the socialism of fools indeed
Wont get fooled again? Though many of the 'revolutionary' types are brave and admirable in their oppositional tactics, they also are complicit in accepting the reality they've been trained to accept.
They're co-conspirators in the maintenance of the delusion created for us
They daren't peek behind the veil, for fear that their whole construct of what the world is about will collapse and they will be left feeling hopeless, lonely, helpless.
The struggle is the important thing - La Lutte Continue!
Were they to 'succeed' in their struggle, the world they created would be the mirror image of the world they were fighting against.
As history has shown time and time again.
The fools of socialism also.

well dh is that an admittance that you´re not a socialist then... your pathetic child porn posts and silly conspiracies are tiring and boring. But i suppose i´m just one of millions that´s not worthy of your intellect or part of the conspiracy... keep on reliving those kids films of finding that secret that nobody else knows and the imaginary friends that don´t exist. I wonder why IMC UK got thrown of google news then... because they are all in on the conspiracy or because people like you come on here and talk total bollocks! I know where my bet lies. You need help.

Jackslucid take a look at the brown shit you´re floating with here. Usual address.

I ´m gradually warming to the Spurs though myself....

I'd probably take up a similar position to Bakunin when he split from
Marx
All his predictions for socialisn came to fruition
Blunkett can still take a 'leftish' pose
Still better to split from all these centrist or otherwise politicos
Let's create something better in the wasted shell of the new world order
I aint discovered nothing
Just sought to pass on information
dh

Strange I can´t actually imagine Bakunin ever spamming IMC with old racist shite, child porn allegations, alien stories, conspiracy rubbish and reports of non-existent weapons etc etc..... He writes sensible stuff about economics and capitalism not stupid allegations.

If you only seek to "pass on (dis)information" then why is there never an in anyway reliable source to these conspiracies? Because they´re shit? Ever thought to wonder where the conspiracy theory came from itself? Read "Warrant for Genocide by Norman Cohn" if you can keep from "passing on" information from racist conpiracy sites for a few hours. Bakunin would recommend it....

Don´t Fight the Players.... Fight the Game!

... the Bilderberg group are real, are a collection of the rich, powerful and ruthless, do have strong roots with the nazi hydra, were and are involved in creating a european 'superstate' run on 'socialist'[sic] priciples (ie the socialism of stalin and animal farm - not the kind that would provide equality and justice for all) ...

... in attempting to demark all those that show interest in the inner workings of the global elite/nazi offspring/socialist fakers, as conspiracy nuts is very loose thinking.

Nobody can know everything, no one can be right all the time, but then again not many make the effort to look over their daily injections of bile and lies fed to us by various shades of media poodles.

I don't know whether or not the majority of conspiracy 'nonsense' (dismissed but not analysed by such a phrase) is 100% correct - I'll just continue to sift through whatever evidence presents itself or that I can dig out and balance my views on it based on the preponderance of evidence and the unfolding of visable manifestations of the 'agenda'.

There are child abusers in high office (Kincorra boys home anyone - mountbatten and friends- incidently a close relative of ss man Bernhard), exotic weapons take up enough effort, money and resources to feed the world several times over, and would appear incomprehensible to all but 'egg heads' with a propensity for 'esoteric' science, and have been used repeatedly for the last 50-60 years to various degree ... aliens, well not met any that I know of, but still a very interesting pusuit if only for the revalations on the inner workings of the human mind ... and please don't call dh a racist without specificallly backing up such vile accusations with the facts that you seem to be witholding!

Other than that, Marx is very useful in enabling a scientific analysis of human systems of production and power distribution, but is often conflated with vanguardist dictatorial movements by those who seek to replace one set of masters with another.

I'm not sure how one can be a 'marxist' anymore than one can be an einstienist for believing that energy and space are all that we have to work with. Baukunin would surely be abused and accused of all sorts were he alive and able to post here, whats more interesting is the idea that he believed in individual human potential and not some collective borg hive totalitarian dictatorship of the prolateriate (another name for facism).

The infomation must first be veiwed and then analysed before incorporated or dismissed ... passive acceptance of someone elses dismissal is not the same as thinking for yourself ... there are plenty of ways an active mind can find infomation on almost anything ... do so with the Bilderbergs and you will find that they are neither conspiracy nonsense nor an ineffectual club of bored rich people getting together to chew the fat over unfeasable large brandy glasses and discussing the best investment options.

They are the cork in the bottleneck of human development - once loosened the end poping is only a matter of time.

Peace to both dh & mb - I know from my communications with you both that you are both decent people able to love life and working to better yourselves, your surroundings and your communities ... dialogue can be most effectatious I find.

It´s obviously not the doubting that these people meet that I reject but the consequences of highlighting this as significant. I´m sure that world leaders and business leaders are meeting all the time and are in constant contact with one another. Even this little thread is getting a cosy huggy feely kind of atmosphere to it as we all seem to be in contact with one another on and off IMC. What disturbs me is the implications that this is some kind of secret world government who control our world for themselves and are inherently evil. This stinks too much of Hitler´s favourite forgery the “protocols” to me and highlighting this can only be helping to the alarming rise of anti-Semitism across Europe over the recent years. The “Bilderburg Conspiracies” can be found on the many internet hate sites across the world as this anti-Semitic belief of a secret world government are fundamental to Nazi philosophy. Jackslucid, you couldn´t even write your post without getting that Zionist word in there somewhere could you? So come on then admit that you believe in this anti-Semitic lie on the web in your next reply if you want. Let the editorial know if that´s what you think and take appropriate action.

The BBC is already under much criticism for anti-Semitism and it´s about time that antifascists started taking action against this rather than believing the “ (sic) daily injections of bile and lies fed to us by various shades of media poodles”. This was on BBC Radio 4! It´s not just the BBC but IMC as well and it´s due to sensational conspiracy theories and vile anti-Semitism that IMC has been deleted by Google from it´s news search because it has been classified a “hate site”. Rather than blaming those who, in my opinion, quite justifiably complained, shouldn´t we perhaps try to get rid of this vile racism and hate that infests this site. At least now IMC-Palestine is up again most of it is in the cesspit that this IMC has become but the constant bitching about Israel, false reporting and world elite conspiracies that still gets posted on IMC is scary. I´m sorry if dh takes offence at my calling him a racist but as long as he continues to post and comment this sort of crap then I have a right to answer back.

Rich people might meet in rich hotels and discuss rich people type things just like I meet my mates in the pub and discuss football and politics. Anti-capitalism is about fighting the system of capitalism and replacing it with a different social and economic system. Personifying capitalism is stupid as actors within capitalism are replaceable and interchangeable within the system. Actors do not make decisions because they are “evil” or “bad” but because they are performing the consequential actions within the economic system to defend their interests, just like I buy cheap baked beans at Netto and have a few beers at home before I go to the pub. It´s about cost cutting and profit maximisation. Hence the anti-capitalist slogan “People not Profit!”. Capitalism is a mathematical and not “moral” system and if one managing director doesn´t follow these rules he or she is replaced by another. It is the system that gives these people influence and thereby takes away the rights of the majority that is the problem and not the individuals who by birth or expertise have the capital and influence. Personifying capitalism is dangerous and leads to structural anti-Semitism hence the “socialism of fools”. The left are fighting to spread wealth and the means of production among all people and not fighting an ever changing and probably quite boring bunch of old guys sitting in a house together drinking gin and sherry. By demonising these people with pathetic slanders you merely discredit the “left” and make room for right-wing influence within the scene. So called “moral anti-capitalism” is counter-revolutionary and a bloody waste of time.

As to your disbelief that anyone can still call themself a Marxist, well there are lots of them actually and you again hint at the protocols which blatantly (in an effort to save the Tsarist monarchy) claim that the Jews were behind communism. I am not a fan of Marxist sects and do not believe that there has ever been a communist society. Your disbelief that I am a Marxist is equal to my disbelief that anyone calling themselves an antifascist or posting on a “left wing” site like IMC is supposed to be can continue to pump out such rubbish after the lessons of 20th century history. Why is that that those who read racist, sexist, homophobic literature and post these ideas on IMCs are thrown off but such blatant conspiracy theory bullshit is allowed to stay and is tolerated? At least on IMC Germany this stuff is either deleted or gets vast comments of disgust from the readership. Why do you think that newspapers diverse as Green Anarchist and the Guardian have condemned this conspiracy rubbish as fascistic and antifascist protest worldwide against David Icke?

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE HATE!

So for the 3rd time of asking: DON´T FIGHT THE PLAYERS – FIGHT THE GAME
A nice day to you all too by the way!

what is all this shit about conspiracy theorists being racist????

get a grip...sure there are some ulterior motives out there...
i've seen nasty stuff by Henry Makow for instance
on his site 'save the males'
he posits that femenism is about the eradication of the male species!!DUR!

and sure the protocols were a racist device , but by whom?
even the great Umberto eco has received flak over his
investigations into the mythology of this controversial subject



below is an interesting case i've been following for some time...

your in peace
captain wardrobe

Suit alleges government created AIDS

San Diegan contends blacks were targeted

 http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20030703-9999_7m3boyd.html

Story by Jeff McDonald, photos by LAURA EMBRY

July 3, 2003


For conspiracy buffs, it doesn't get much scarier than this.

Boyd Graves, an Annapolis graduate who put himself through law school, is convinced the U.S. government created AIDS in a secret program aimed at killing African-Americans.

Today, at San Diego's federal courthouse, he will get his day in court.

Graves is suing the United States for allegedly failing to hand over documents under the Freedom of Information Act that he says prove the government is behind the AIDS pandemic.

Legal experts say there is a place in the justice system for such unconventional lawsuits.

"This is a modern-day David vs. Goliath battle," said Graves, 50, an AIDS activist who lives in Normal Heights and represents himself in the federal lawsuit.

"The paper trail does exist. These are official documents."

Graves contends that AIDS is the product of decades of ultra-classified government research into developing a race-specific virus that attacks and kills blacks.

He compares the project to the eugenics movement early last century, when scientists and others advocated "racial hygiene" – a practice that in Germany led to Nazis working to eliminate Jews.

Graves, who is black, is not alone in his suspicions. Across the Internet, there is chatter about the origin of AIDS – theories that include CIA plots and vaccine programs run amok.

AIDS now ranks as the fifth-leading cause of death in the United States among men and women between ages 24 and 44. It is the top killer of black men in the same age group.

Graves spends much of his time outlining his allegations on his Web site and putting his law degree from Ohio Northern University to work on the lawsuit. He does not practice law professionally and is not a member of the California bar.

In addition to the conspiracy charges, Graves accuses the government of suppressing a cure that could save millions of lives.

The remedy worked for him, he claims. In 1992, he found out that he was HIV-positive. Nineteen months ago, he says, he took a one-time "infusion" and has been symptom-free ever since, without any further medications.

"It's all-encompassing," Graves said of the alleged cover-up. "Here we found a federal virus program that no one knew about. If we review this program, we will solve AIDS."

Government lawyers aren't buying Graves' position. At today's hearing, they plan to cite a variety of legal reasons the case should be dismissed by Judge Jeffrey T. Miller.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Beth Levine declined to discuss the complaint.

But she argued in court papers that, among other things, several government agencies made reasonable attempts to give Graves the information he requested.

"In this case, no agency records have been improperly withheld," Levine wrote in a brief submitted last month.

Filed Dec. 6 as Boyd E. Graves vs. The United States of America et al., the suit revolves around a "flow chart" that maps HIV, the human immunodeficiency virus, and which Graves believes is stored somewhere in the archives of the National Cancer Institute.

"The flow chart proves that this was not an accident," Graves said in an interview. "This was an intentional development of a special virus."

Graves also is seeking copies of "progress reports" that he contends detail successes in the secret program, and an audiotape titled "Virus Makers of the CIA," in which, he contends, government experts discuss the plot.

The records "will provide absolute proof of the true laboratory origin of HIV, a 'synthetic biological agent' destined for a certain receptor site in certain people," his suit says.


Checks, balances
George Bellinger Jr. of the Washington, D.C., advocacy group AIDS Action said lawsuits such as the one filed by Graves can cause more harm than good – as do rumors and unproven cure-alls.
"It prevents people from getting the real information and taking precautionary measures to enhance their lives or prevent them from getting HIV," he said.

Additionally, Bellinger said, bickering over the beginnings of AIDS at this point matters very little. Far more pressing, he said, are developing a vaccine and preventing new infections.

"A lot of people are looking for a scapegoat . . . and that is a detriment to all people."

However, legal experts said lawsuits against the government not only keep public officials honest, they also can play a critical role in maintaining the checks and balances built into the democratic system.

Jan Stiglitz, who teaches civil procedure at California Western School of Law, said judges are correctly asked to be final arbiters when people think the government may be keeping material from the public or otherwise behaving questionably.

"When there is a dispute about being in compliance, you absolutely need a court to be ready to step in and resolve that, no matter how far out in left field the claim sounds," he said. "It's the separation of powers."

Stiglitz cited several cases in which government leaders sought to cover up dubious research or activities, including forced sterilization of the "feeble," the Tuskegee syphilis study, and stockpiling by the FBI of files on private citizens.

"You could have lots of cases that initially look like they're frivolous that in fact turn out to be well-founded," he said.

"When we have free and easy access to the justice system, you pay a small price in terms of the occasional frivolous suit, but the alternative would be intolerable," he added.


Search for origin
The lack of definitive answers regarding the origin of AIDS makes it harder to dismiss seemingly outrageous claims. Researchers have been trying for years, without success, to isolate the specific beginnings of the virus.
The first cases were diagnosed in a group of five gay men in Los Angeles in 1981. Two patients died unexpectedly, and many more cases followed. Something clearly was attacking the men's immune systems.

By the end of 2002, about 42 million people were infected worldwide, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said. Approximately 70 percent of the people with HIV or AIDS live in Africa; President Bush has pushed for billions of dollars of new aid to Africa to fight the disease.

Last year alone, AIDS claimed 3.1 million victims, including 610,000 children under the age of 15.

Because HIV is so similar to viruses found in primates – SIV, or simian immunodeficiency viruses – most scientists agree the likeliest source of AIDS is central Africa, where SIV-positive animals have been discovered.

Ten percent of blacks polled in New York City in 1990 said the AIDS virus was "deliberately created in a laboratory in order to infect black people," according to a New York Times survey. An additional 19 percent said they believed the theory might be true.