Blair is finished.....!!!!!!!!!
Sceptic | 02.06.2003 16:45
>>
May be fragrance to some but when Max executes Tony, the Tories would out themselves to finish the job on Tony.
May be fragrance to some but when Max executes Tony, the Tories would out themselves to finish the job on Tony.
PM's DECEIT SACRIFICED BRITISH LIVES Jun 2 2003
By Sir Max Hastings Who Initially Accepted The Case For War
EVEN by the standards of the Bush Administration, last week was a remarkable one for diplomatic folly.
Paul Wolfowitz, the Assistant Defence Secretary, disclosed that the US wilfully exaggerated the threat of weapons of mass destruction to rally support for an Iraq war.
Likewise, Wolfowitz's boss, Donald Rumsfeld, declared that he has little expectation of finding any WMDs.
He then launched a new round of sabre-rattling against Iran.
So much for the gleeful banner under which President Bush greeted a homebound American aircraft carrier crew: "Mission accomplished."
The leading lights of the US Defence Department always made it plain that disarming Saddam was a pretext for regime change in Iraq.
Yet that pretext was the basis of a massive American diplomatic offensive.
Tony Blair explicitly told the British people that disarming Saddam justified taking Britain to war. That argument was fraudulent.
Some of us, who accepted public and private Whitehall assurances about WMDs, today feel rather silly.
Robin Cook is crowing, and well he may. He said that WMDs did not exist. He appears to have been right.
It is irrelevant that the Allies won the war. The Prime Minister committed British troops and sacrificed British lives on the basis of a deceit, and it stinks.
Meanwhile inside Iraq, it has become irrelevant to criticise the Americans for past failure to anticipate the problems of making the country work.
The question is whether they intend to commit resources on a scale commensurate with the task, now that the requirement is plain.
The example of Afghanistan, where Washington seems untroubled by post-war anarchy, is not encouraging.
The Americans shrug that today's warlordism offers Afghans better lives than yesterday's Taliban, and that outcome should suffice.
THE administration always asserted that the Iraqi people were not enemies, but hapless pawns of a tyrant.
In 1945, the Germans and Japanese begged for cigarettes and scratched in the ruins of their cities without much audible protest, because they knew they were the vanquished. The Iraqis, by contrast, behave as if they had just voted the Americans into office. They are petulantly impatient to see their new government fulfil its election pledges. The world is happy to cheer them on.
George Bush seems likely to fight a khaki presidential election in 2004, on a platform of tough action abroad in the cause of homeland defence.
Critics observe that he can scarcely do anything else, since his management of the US economy frightens the life out of everyone who thinks beyond polling day.
It is hard to overstate the seriousness of the damage to British trust which is inflicted almost daily by Washington's insouciance.
What was the point of reluctantly joining the Iraqi adventure, people ask, if the British Government cannot curb the excesses of American policy, and if the British Army's reward for participation is a half-baked war crimes charge against one of its officers by a disgruntled American major?
AMERICAN hawks would dismiss most of the above as a reflection of familiar British liberal pusillanimity, our unflagging belief that we ran the world more intelligently in our centuries than they do in theirs.
Yet there are good grounds for mistrusting American judgment.
I was among those who thought the war mistaken, but reluctantly accepted the arguments for British participation, to preserve the Atlantic alliance and to maintain some marginal influence upon American policy. Today, given the behaviour of the US Administration, that case is in tatters. Thus, some people declare that this is the moment for Britain to jump ship, plainly to assert that we will go no further alongside an ally so reckless in its diplomacy, so careless in its actions.
Yet the US remains the only superpower we have got. It cannot be exchanged for a new model. Britain is now committed in Iraq, for better or worse.
It remains vital to engage with Washington. Even in the face of great difficulties, the diplomatic effort must continue, to restrain American unilateralism.
But a heavy blow has been struck against our faith in American rhetoric and judgment.
The struggle against terrorism, and the management of the world look harder today than they did a week ago, thanks to Washington's frightening surge of unforced errors.
-This article first appeared in the Sunday Telegraph. Max Hastings is a former editor of the Daily Telegraph and London Evening Standard and is now a writer and military historian.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=13023005&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=PM%27s%20DECEIT%20SACRIFICED%20BRITISH%20LIVES%20
By Sir Max Hastings Who Initially Accepted The Case For War
EVEN by the standards of the Bush Administration, last week was a remarkable one for diplomatic folly.
Paul Wolfowitz, the Assistant Defence Secretary, disclosed that the US wilfully exaggerated the threat of weapons of mass destruction to rally support for an Iraq war.
Likewise, Wolfowitz's boss, Donald Rumsfeld, declared that he has little expectation of finding any WMDs.
He then launched a new round of sabre-rattling against Iran.
So much for the gleeful banner under which President Bush greeted a homebound American aircraft carrier crew: "Mission accomplished."
The leading lights of the US Defence Department always made it plain that disarming Saddam was a pretext for regime change in Iraq.
Yet that pretext was the basis of a massive American diplomatic offensive.
Tony Blair explicitly told the British people that disarming Saddam justified taking Britain to war. That argument was fraudulent.
Some of us, who accepted public and private Whitehall assurances about WMDs, today feel rather silly.
Robin Cook is crowing, and well he may. He said that WMDs did not exist. He appears to have been right.
It is irrelevant that the Allies won the war. The Prime Minister committed British troops and sacrificed British lives on the basis of a deceit, and it stinks.
Meanwhile inside Iraq, it has become irrelevant to criticise the Americans for past failure to anticipate the problems of making the country work.
The question is whether they intend to commit resources on a scale commensurate with the task, now that the requirement is plain.
The example of Afghanistan, where Washington seems untroubled by post-war anarchy, is not encouraging.
The Americans shrug that today's warlordism offers Afghans better lives than yesterday's Taliban, and that outcome should suffice.
THE administration always asserted that the Iraqi people were not enemies, but hapless pawns of a tyrant.
In 1945, the Germans and Japanese begged for cigarettes and scratched in the ruins of their cities without much audible protest, because they knew they were the vanquished. The Iraqis, by contrast, behave as if they had just voted the Americans into office. They are petulantly impatient to see their new government fulfil its election pledges. The world is happy to cheer them on.
George Bush seems likely to fight a khaki presidential election in 2004, on a platform of tough action abroad in the cause of homeland defence.
Critics observe that he can scarcely do anything else, since his management of the US economy frightens the life out of everyone who thinks beyond polling day.
It is hard to overstate the seriousness of the damage to British trust which is inflicted almost daily by Washington's insouciance.
What was the point of reluctantly joining the Iraqi adventure, people ask, if the British Government cannot curb the excesses of American policy, and if the British Army's reward for participation is a half-baked war crimes charge against one of its officers by a disgruntled American major?
AMERICAN hawks would dismiss most of the above as a reflection of familiar British liberal pusillanimity, our unflagging belief that we ran the world more intelligently in our centuries than they do in theirs.
Yet there are good grounds for mistrusting American judgment.
I was among those who thought the war mistaken, but reluctantly accepted the arguments for British participation, to preserve the Atlantic alliance and to maintain some marginal influence upon American policy. Today, given the behaviour of the US Administration, that case is in tatters. Thus, some people declare that this is the moment for Britain to jump ship, plainly to assert that we will go no further alongside an ally so reckless in its diplomacy, so careless in its actions.
Yet the US remains the only superpower we have got. It cannot be exchanged for a new model. Britain is now committed in Iraq, for better or worse.
It remains vital to engage with Washington. Even in the face of great difficulties, the diplomatic effort must continue, to restrain American unilateralism.
But a heavy blow has been struck against our faith in American rhetoric and judgment.
The struggle against terrorism, and the management of the world look harder today than they did a week ago, thanks to Washington's frightening surge of unforced errors.
-This article first appeared in the Sunday Telegraph. Max Hastings is a former editor of the Daily Telegraph and London Evening Standard and is now a writer and military historian.
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Sceptic
Comments
Hide the following 15 comments
Clearly was a racist and still is.
02.06.2003 17:17
Blair and his dogs must pay for their crimes.
jaafer
What is the difference between Thatcher/Blair
02.06.2003 17:37
jean
e-mail:
juana@hotmail.com
Homepage:
http://www.factbook.fr.st
Max Hastings? Who next, Nick Griffin?
02.06.2003 17:44
hookjaw
Bu$h is Sauron, Blair is Saruman
02.06.2003 18:53
WHAT WOULD TREEBEARD DO?
Feanaro Elensar
Bu$h Sauron, Blair Saruman
02.06.2003 18:55
feanora Elensar
Get real realist
02.06.2003 19:10
Yes Saddam defied the world community, as did Blair and Bush incidentally!
CIA... most advanced intelligence agency in the world, oh dear. What evidence have they published?... the receipts for all the stuff?
The not in my name brigade would have happily supported attempts to liberate the Iraqi people (ie give them the chance to decide their future rather than answer to an American installed regime!)
What about the thousands murdered by 'coalition' forces? werethey not innocent people too?
Well I'm one of those 'fuckwits' and I would love you to tell me where the stockpiles of weapons are... go on tell me... well I'm waiting..............
Thought not!
pigdog
Where are they then?
02.06.2003 20:11
Blair’s hysterical and almost apocalyptic scare mongering has come back to haunt him, he is now being exposed as the lying cunt he is, anyone with at least a brain cell knows that Iraq was on it’s knees before the war and simply wasn’t capable of threatening, attacking or even invading anyone.
The whole concept of Iraq’s so-called Weapons of Mass Destruction was for public consumption, to terrify a sceptical public into backing an unnecessary and totally unjust war and it’s backfired, I would bet he is out of office by the autumn.
PS – WMD also stands for Words of Mass Deception!
Stuey
e-mail:
stuey@surfanytime.co.uk
Homepage:
users.surfanytime.co.uk/stuey
rules here?
02.06.2003 22:00
__________________
If I can briefly respond to the original point of this thread...Blair is taking heat over the (lack of) the wmd, but he is being outed by MI5/6. Whaaa? I am not suggesting we support the scumbag, but let's keep our eyes wide open and be aware of the forces at work here
comet's tail
Realist: Your "facts" are wrong
03.06.2003 04:01
You wrote:
"The CIA the most advanced intellegence agency in the world uncovered and published evidence of both Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, his attempts to build nuclear weapons and his links with Al Qaeda. But still the Not In Our Name Brigade refused to believe war or even the threat of war was neccessary!"
In fact:
The CIA did not publish any evidence of any WMD since they had no proof of them or of a nuclear program in Iraq--on the contray the CIA said there was no credible evidence of such and so warned the Bush administration.
The purported evidence offered to the public on WMDs etc. was "cooked" by a special intelligence team of a few men formed by Rumsfeld at the Pentagon because he didn't like the fact that there was no evidence of WMD from any CIA source. It was also supplied by the British government in documents plagiarized from the decade old work of a graduate student in California, and from forged documents supposedly from Niger.
The CIA and FBI also both denied the links suggested by Bush and his advisors between Al Qaida and Saddam Hussein.
fact checker
Attn. Mr "Realist"
03.06.2003 14:10
1. Go out to a bookstore.
2. Ask the attendants there for a copy of "Rogue State, a guide to the world's only superpower" by William Blum. If it is a Republican bookstore, they probably won't have it. They'll be out burning it, along with those Dixie Chicks albums that have upset you all so much. Maybe some burning crosses in there somewhere, just for good measure.
3. Read book.
4. Reread your comments, reprinted below for usefulness. Then eat your hat/words/shit/humble pie/whichever you prefer. YOU are living in the biggest terrorist state in the world. Open your "Realist" eyes.
"Listen fuckwits if a war to oust a brutal tyrant who is hell bent on stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, the most evil weapons imaginable such as Anthrax, Botulism, Mustard Gas and Sarin which cause agonising death, who has murdered and tortured thousands of his own people (ok, the USA usually only murder and torture people from poorer and more underprivileged countries, admittedly) and has proven links with international terrorist groups is not a just war then you are a complete and utter moron!"
And by the way, the Cold War is over. The constant paranoid bickering about evil "Commies" is beginning to be embarrassing.
Happy Commie
Attn. Mr "Realist"
03.06.2003 14:13
1. Go out to a bookstore.
2. Ask the attendants there for a copy of "Rogue State, a guide to the world's only superpower" by William Blum. If it is a Republican bookstore, they probably won't have it. They'll be out burning it, along with those Dixie Chicks albums that have upset you all so much. Maybe some burning crosses in there somewhere, just for good measure.
3. Read book.
4. Reread your comments, reprinted below for usefulness. Then eat your hat/words/shit/humble pie/whichever you prefer. YOU are living in the biggest terrorist state in the world. Open your "Realist" eyes.
"Listen fuckwits if a war to oust a brutal tyrant who is hell bent on stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, the most evil weapons imaginable such as Anthrax, Botulism, Mustard Gas and Sarin which cause agonising death, who has murdered and tortured thousands of his own people (ok, the USA usually only murder and torture people from poorer and more underprivileged countries, admittedly) and has proven links with international terrorist groups is not a just war then you are a complete and utter moron!"
And by the way, the Cold War is over. The constant paranoid bickering about evil "Commies" is beginning to be embarrassing.
Happy Commie
Attn. "Realist"
03.06.2003 14:15
1. Go out to a bookstore.
2. Ask the attendants there for a copy of "Rogue State, a guide to the world's only superpower" by William Blum. If it is a Republican bookstore, they probably won't have it. They'll be out burning it, along with those Dixie Chicks albums that have upset you all so much. Maybe some burning crosses in there somewhere, just for good measure.
3. Read book.
4. Reread your comments, reprinted below for usefulness. Then eat your hat/words/shit/humble pie/whichever you prefer. YOU are living in the biggest terrorist state in the world. Open your "Realist" eyes.
"Listen fuckwits if a war to oust a brutal tyrant who is hell bent on stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, the most evil weapons imaginable such as Anthrax, Botulism, Mustard Gas and Sarin which cause agonising death, who has murdered and tortured thousands of his own people (ok, the USA usually only murder and torture people from poorer and more underprivileged countries, admittedly) and has proven links with international terrorist groups is not a just war then you are a complete and utter moron!"
And by the way, the Cold War is over. The constant paranoid bickering about evil "Commies" is beginning to be embarrassing.
Happy Commie
For the attention of "Realist"
03.06.2003 14:17
1. Go out to a bookstore.
2. Ask the attendants there for a copy of "Rogue State, a guide to the world's only superpower" by William Blum. If it is a Republican bookstore, they probably won't have it. They'll be out burning it, along with those Dixie Chicks albums that have upset you all so much. Maybe some burning crosses in there somewhere, just for good measure.
3. Read book.
4. Reread your comments, reprinted below for usefulness. Then eat your hat/words/shit/humble pie/whichever you prefer. YOU are living in the biggest terrorist state in the world. Open your "Realist" eyes.
"Listen fuckwits if a war to oust a brutal tyrant who is hell bent on stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, the most evil weapons imaginable such as Anthrax, Botulism, Mustard Gas and Sarin which cause agonising death, who has murdered and tortured thousands of his own people (ok, the USA usually only murder and torture people from poorer and more underprivileged countries, admittedly) and has proven links with international terrorist groups is not a just war then you are a complete and utter moron!"
And by the way, the Cold War is over. The constant paranoid bickering about evil "Commies" is beginning to be embarrassing.
Happy Commie
For the attention of "Realist"
03.06.2003 14:21
1. Go out to a bookstore.
2. Ask the attendants there for a copy of "Rogue State, a guide to the world's only superpower" by William Blum. If it is a Republican bookstore, they probably won't have it. They'll be out burning it, along with those Dixie Chicks albums that have upset you all so much. Maybe some burning crosses in there somewhere, just for good measure.
3. Read book.
4. Reread your comments, reprinted below for usefulness. Then eat your hat/words/shit/humble pie/whichever you prefer. YOU are living in the biggest terrorist state in the world. Open your "Realist" eyes.
"Listen fuckwits if a war to oust a brutal tyrant who is hell bent on stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, the most evil weapons imaginable such as Anthrax, Botulism, Mustard Gas and Sarin which cause agonising death, who has murdered and tortured thousands of his own people (ok, the USA usually only murder and torture people from poorer and more underprivileged countries, admittedly) and has proven links with international terrorist groups is not a just war then you are a complete and utter moron!"
And by the way, the Cold War is over. The constant paranoid bickering about evil "Commies" is beginning to be embarrassing.
Happy Commie
Attn. "Realist"
03.06.2003 14:37
1. Go out to a bookstore.
2. Ask the attendants there for a copy of "Rogue State, a guide to the world's only superpower" by William Blum. If it is a Republican bookstore, they probably won't have it. They'll be out burning it, along with those Dixie Chicks albums that have upset you all so much. Maybe some burning crosses in there somewhere, just for good measure.
3. Read book.
4. Reread your comments, reprinted below for usefulness. Then eat your hat/words/shit/humble pie/whichever you prefer. YOU are living in the biggest terrorist state in the world. Open your "Realist" eyes.
"Listen fuckwits if a war to oust a brutal tyrant who is hell bent on stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, the most evil weapons imaginable such as Anthrax, Botulism, Mustard Gas and Sarin which cause agonising death, who has murdered and tortured thousands of his own people (ok, the USA usually only murder and torture people from poorer and more underprivileged countries, admittedly) and has proven links with international terrorist groups is not a just war then you are a complete and utter moron!"
And by the way, the Cold War is over. The constant paranoid bickering about evil "Commies" is beginning to be embarrassing.
Happy Commie