"Peace will never come to Palestine until Israel pledges an immediate end to state violence and a withdrawal of troops from the occupied territories"

i disagree. in September 2000, there were no Israeli troops in 98% of the territories. Yet since then, and u do fail to mention this, over 720 Israelis have been murdered by suicide terrorists.

peace will come when Palestinian terrorism stops and Israel is secure. then I might support your boycott if Israel did not withdraw from the territories.

until that time, your attempted boycott, and others like them, are extremely biased. if u want to bring some element of credibility to ur boycott, u should also boycott Syria, Iran, and the Palestinians themselves, for funding, inciting and executing brutal murder and terrorism against Israelis. or do u consider the murder of Israelis to be excusable?

from the vast array of the huge wealth of Palestinian industrial production and global export could be bocotted.. Or perhaps it is the many resplendant five star luxury hotels and high class resorts in Jenin and other camps that could be shunned. (Sarcasm) Lol.

>>

Yet since then, and u do fail to mention this, over 1750 Palestinians have been murdered by IDF terrorists.

" no Israeli troops in 98% of the territories"

Its interesting to see that zionists have to fabricate everything in order to make an argument at all. Their illegal settlements alone have stolen over half the west bank land during the last 10 years. The occupation has never ceased, not for even one day, since the creation of this abomination known as "israel". The world mourns today that such crimes can be committed to the Palestinian people under the gaze of the so called democracies. Victory to the Intifada!

u're quite right. many people on both sides have been killed.

why boycott Israel only, then?
and where are the demands for an end to Palestinian terrorism?

Jamie: " no Israeli troops in 98% of the territories"
Mike: Its interesting to see that zionists have to fabricate everything in order to make an argument at all.
this is not a fabrication. its a fact:
 http://www.aipac.org/HistoryMaps.pdf


Mike: Their illegal settlements alone have stolen over half the west bank land during the last 10 years.
utter rubbish, and a total lie. the truth is, "The area occupied by the settlements in the West Bank represents 2.6% of West Bank land". see here:
 http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=82&CategoryId=4


Mike: The occupation has never ceased, not for even one day, since the creation of this abomination known as "israel".
more rubbish. the lands we're talking about were occupied in 1967, after a pre-emptive strike to prevent yet another Arab invasion of Israel. if u're insinuating the former British mandate known as "Palestine", then u're saying that the state of Israel does not have a right to exist. is this what u think? if so, why? the international community disagrees with u, because Israel was formed by the UN, and is recognised as a legitimate state by nearly all countries, including such neighbours as Egypt and Jordan. the only ones that don't recognise it are Iran, Saudi Arabia etc, all Arab states. u'll also find that Israeli Arabs have equal rights in Israel as Jews do; full citizenship, human rights, freedom to vote, full access to independant legal counsel, and far higher standards of living. in fact, Arabs are treated far better in Israel than they are in most, if not all Arab countries.

u argue for the Palestinians right to self-determination, yet u deny this right to Israelis. Why? and if u're so against occupation, why do u not argue against Syria for its occupation of Lebanon, or the Chinese for their occupation of Tibet?? why are u so 'anti-zionist'? of course the term 'anti-zionist' is now the modern, fashionable and 'acceptable' term for 'anti-Jewish' - I see u've jumped on the bandwagon.


Mike: Victory to the Intifada!
victory to indiscriminate terrorism? or in your view, simply victory to indiscriminate terrorism against Jews?


u can call me "Zionist scum" all u like. it just undermines your own cause, really, which i suspect is not sympathy with Palestinians, but rather a hatred of Jews. u cannot argue or debate, or otherwise prove any of your false claims, all u can do is try to throw insults. this demonstrates low intelligence, ignorance and intolerance, in addition to your racism (which also indicates ignorance and intolerance).

all i can say to u is that whatever rubbish u try to conjure up, u will always fail, because the truth will remain.

Well when Israel itself stops trying to hold Arafat accountable for Israel's own actions, then perhaps you may be justified in asking those questions.

The anti-israel lunatics are laughable.

First of all, there is no "slaughter" of Palestinians. Armed terrorists are fighting with armed army members, so naturally the armed army members are more successful in the fighting. If Israel wanted to "slaughter" Palestinians, 900, or 2000, or 3000, or 300, or some other extremely high number, would die each day. That has never happened (except when King Hussein of Jordan got sick of the PLO trying to take over Jordan).

Secondly, the anti-Israel lunatics never mention Palestinian terrorism, because they see 100% of it as justified. They're ignorant (or dishonest) and fail to admit that while tons of palestinians are angry about the occupation in general, several powerful Palestinian terrorist organizations (hamas, islamic jihad, etc.) seek israel's destruction, and no peace agreement. That's who Israel fights. Unfortunately, while Israel has had different leaders, all democratically elected, every few years since day 1, Palestinians for 35 years have had the same one leader, the king terrorist himself, Yasser Arafat.

Palestinians began their latest intifada, and MONTHS LATER, ariel sharon was voted into office in response. Ariel Sharon was not in charge of Israel when palestinians decided to begin constant terrorist intifada attacks. Ariel Sharon has only been in office for 3 years, and in a year or two he'll probably be voted out. Yasser Arafat, meanwhile, for 35 years has been the sole palestinian leader. That's the problem.

"Settlements" aren't the problem. Israel was being hit with terrorist attacks and wars BEFORE the settlements existed. That terrorism has continued is not "proof" that it's the fault of the settlements. Furthermore, the "settlements" are basically groups of jews trying to live in available parts of the west bank and gaza. It's strange that everyone accepts that it's "illegal" for jews to try to live in the west bank or gaza, yet it should be legal not only for muslims to live in israel, but to continue being citizens, as 1 million currently are (20% of israeli citizens are muslim. Unlike in palestine, where 0% are jews, except those who are called "illegal settlers.")

Israel should end their occupation only when palestinian leaders are normal, sane people who aren't extremists. Israel should not end their occupation as long as people like arafat are in charge.

checkmate: Well when Israel itself stops trying to hold Arafat accountable for Israel's own actions, then perhaps you may be justified in asking those questions.


an interesting perception. you think the suicide bombing that murdered 7 people in Jerusalem this morning was "Israel's own actions" ??
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3037285.stm

it looked like the work of a crazed anti-Israel islamic group to me. Hamas/Islamic Jihad/al-aqsa maybe?

Israel's own actions huh? wake up and smell the coffee.
Arafat IS the 'person' responsible for all of this, because he's been inciting the palestinians to commit terrorism and murder ever since he came to power over 30 years ago. we now have an entire generation of palestinian people who regard the suicide murder of Jews as a divine act that will send them to paradise with 70 virgins. the entire palestinian culture is now based around the reveral and celebration of homicide bombers, or 'martyrs' as they like to call them. all of this was incited by Arafat.

nodboss: Arafat has no control over Suicide bombers
bad guess, try again. u've obviously never heard of the Al-Aqsa 'martyrs' (aka murderers) Brigade, an offshoot of Arafat's own Fatah movement. they've carried out many homicide attacks on innocent Israeli civilians since the start of this 'intifada'.
remember the Karine A, the Palestinian Authority-owned ship found carrying 50 tons of armaments destined for the PA? Arafat eventually owned up to his personal involvement, despite his earlier attempts to worm his way out:
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1819635.stm

"All of the Palestinian terrorist organizations are involved in attacks against Israel. Arafat's Fatah organization is responsible for 42 percent of the attacks; Hamas 39 percent; Palestinian Islamic Jihad 9 percent; and the PFLP 3 percent":
 http://www.jcpa.org/art/brief1-24.htm


nodboss: and sure as hell they are going to be more for each murdered innocent Palestinian.
are u advocating homicide bombings against innocent civilians? do u believe they are right or justified?


nodboss: You really are all as thick as can be.
i have provided u with cold hard facts, and backed them up as well. can u say the same, or are u too ignorant and 'dumb' to do so? its a shame the pictures i tried to post won't display here. they were graphic images of palestinian children being trained in the finer arts of terrorism at a Jenin 'summer camp'. camps like these are ultimately funded by the EU, for 'development' purposes. however, with Arafat's approval, the money is channelled towards camps like these in order to 'educate' their children, whom they love so much that they encourage to go blow themselves up.

Maybe you'd sound more plausible as a source of "cold hard facts" if you got those "facts" from sources other than AIPAC and other Zionist propaganda organisations. The '98%' of alnd you refer to didn't take into account the vast swathes of territory that are crossed by 'Israeli only' roads between and around the settlements, forcing Palestinians to endure racism and humiliation at the hands of the IDF road blocks. Effectively, only the large Palestinian towns were under local control, with the IDF cutting each community off from its neighbours.

Maybe you'd sound more plausible if you didn't write like a member of the Likudnik Jugend texting his boyfriend - all this 'u'-this and 'u'-that makes you look like a bit of a teenage twat.

I'm an anti-Zionist, and I unreservedly condemn suicide bombings and attacks within Israel (the pre-1967 borders, of course) as terrorism, and counterproductive terrorism at that. But any action against the IDF and settlers is not terrorism, it is legitimate resistance, from demonstrations to stone throwing to AK47s to mortar bombs and pathetic home made RPGs against tanks. On these figures, the death toll from terror drops to less than 300, since Israeli deaths in the territories are the result of resistance activities.

If it was my land, I'd fight for it - if I was a Zionist, I'd probably be looking at my neighbours land and figuring out how to steal it.

Jamie - get some real facts, and try to write like a grown up.

Bri.

Jamie thanks for your great comments. The way I put it,

1) Where was Israel's army BEFORE the current *intifada* started?

2) Who actually walked out of negotiations at Camp David and started a war?

3) Who wanted to end the conflict at Camp David and Taba. Who wanted death and destruction.

The current situation in gaza/west bank is a RESPONSE to the terrorist war started by Palestinians.
99 percent of the Palestinians were living under Arafat's rule, at the time they began their new intifada. Israel went back in the West Bank in an attempt to squash the terrorists that are murdering and sending homicide bombers to massacre Israeli civilians.

The Arabs continually initiate the violence, the Israelis have not fired the first shots. Do the Palestinians expect not to be fired back on? Its ok for them to blow up school children and civilians intentionally? Someone please explain to me, how the Israelis could possibly live next to such a violent people. I personally don't see how it can be done at this point. All I see is the Palestinians provoking war and using any method they can to get all of Israel. How can there be peace among a people, that have no value for men women and children.

Arafat and his henchmen prefer to keep his position as head terrorist and dictator in order to keep "his" people poor, miserable and angry and to insure his swiss bank account stays fat with EU $$ - sad but true. There is no democracy anywhere in the Arab world and this is equally true for those civilians under the PA control. Until the Jew hating idiots on the left understand, that the Arabs want to destroy Israel and Israel doesn’t want to be destroyed.

If you want to know what Arafat really intends, you have to read his speeches in Arabic, rather than the niced-up English ones intended for Western consumption. In these Arabic speeches he constantly suggests that he wants all of Israel; all of Jerusalem. He often cites the relationship between Mohammed and the Qureishi, in which a temporary peace was made so that one could become stronger and then try to wipe out one's opponents. He has massively violated Oslo in orchestrating and financing terrorist attacks. He constantly praises the murderers of Israeli women and children as "martyrs", suggesting they be emulated.

He is clearly signalling that his long-term intention isn't peace, and that current negotiations are simply tactics. What Arafat refers to as his phase by phase plan to destroy Israel through terror.