Well, this is how it works with this issue. Whenever the topic of Palestinians, or the topic of arabs mistreating other arabs is concerned, the jew-haters out there always bring jews, or "zionists" (their own insane definition of it,that is) or israel into the equation.

NORMAL PERSON: You realize that in Egypt, committing gay acts is punishable by death, or exile, right? While in Israel it's legal to be gay, gays have a pride parade in israel, people's individual choices are respected.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Why do the jews like shooting arabs in the head????????? Zionism is evil!!!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: You realize that in Saudia Arabia, women aren't allowed to even drive cars or work in public places, let alone have important jobs, while in Israel women are free to do whatever, and in fact, Israel has had a woman as a prime minister - the top position in the entire country.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionism is racist and evil and racist and discriminatory zionazis are evil israel is bad it's israel's fault!

NORMAL PERSON: You realize that in many muslim countries, it's illegal for a married woman to cheat on her husband, and sometimes women have been raped, and the rapist has been caught, yet the woman was raped gets flogged because the law says that she cheated on her husband.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: the zionists occupation is trying to take over the whole world, that is why arabs do that, it's the zionists!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: Israel offered peace agreements with every arab country. Egypt and Jordan accepted, and Israel honored it fully and proved that when given real peace, Israel is a terrific partner. But Syria still refuses to recognize that Israel should be left alone, Palestinians have had ONE LEADER this whole time who fought with other arabs just as much as he fought with Israel. Israel is obviously willing to make peace, Egypt and Jordan can confirm they have honored everything.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: zionists don't want peace, they want war!

NORMAL PERSON: Then why has Israel offerd peace to everyone, repeatedly, for many years, and 2 arab countries agreed, and Israel accepted, and it's worked out fine, with both sides honoring their agreements?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists want to take over the earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Israel loves to kill!

NORMAL PERSON: Why is it that to this day, it's illegal to be a jewish citien of saudia arabia, yet in Israel the citizens are allowed to practice whatever religion they want, and there are arab muslims in israel's government, democratically elected by 100% of israel's citizens, as we speak? Shouldn't people who are against racial or religious discrimination note this extremely vast difference?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Sharon is worse than hitler! Damn zionazis!!!!!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: It seems that Israel's main demand in return for ending hte occupation all these years has been that Israel receive peace and security. That seems like a reasonable request. Year after year, as that request was rejected, it kind of makes sense that Israel set up additional areas of control, to ward off people who reject the peace offers and just keep attacking.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel doesn't want peace, they may say it, and they may honor it with the arab countries who actually give it to them, but, errr, uhhhhhh, screw the zionists!!!!!!!!!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: In Algeria and some nearby countries, don't they still practice forced female circumcision? That's a sick practice forced upon women.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel shuldn't exist, then there woudl be no need to carve up women's private parts!!

NORMAL PERSON: Israel has freedom of the press. That's why some newspaper articles agree with government moves, others disagree. That's why different voices are heard. But in most arab/muslim countries, the government has 100% control of the media, and no dissenting views are allowed.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists just pretend to have freedom of the press, it's all a lie, open your eyes!!!

NORMAL PERSON: It's strange how peopole blame Ariel Sharon for the current problems, when the fact is that Palestinians began their latest intiafa, and MONTHS LATER, in response, Ariel Sharon was elected into office to deal with it.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Always in response, that's what they always say!

NORMAL PERSON: But, it usually is a case of Israel responding if you actually look at the facts. The fact is, Israel had made a state offer, it wasn't a perfect offer but it was a start, and at the time they made it Arafat was in control of almost all of Palestinian land, and instead of taking time to discuss it, to work with Israel as well as the international community and to keep going in the direction of peace, Arafat rejected even the discussion of it, and soon after, Palestinians began their intifada, and MONTHS LATER, Ariel Sharon was elected into office. So, the fact is, Sharon WAS a response to the intifada.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Sharon caused the intifada by walking to some important buildings, he's a mad killer, he's insane!

NORMAL PERSON: If he's insane, then when palestinians attack Israel, how come Ariel Sharon doesn't just lob giant bombs into Palestinian towns and kill thousands at a time? Logic suggests that Israel sending troops in to go after terrorist organizations, risking their own lives to guard towns and go after groups that are attacking, shows they are trying to be responsible. Irresponsible would be to kill thousands each day, which Ariel Sharon could do if he wanted to.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Ariel Sharon can't do that because then he would be revealed for the killer that he is!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: So, the fact is, Ariel Sharon hasn't done it, so you're calling him a mad killer for something he hasn't done?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: But he would!

NORMAL PERSON: How do you know that? The fact is, Sharon hasn't done it. What he has done is demand that Palestinians cease their terrorist attacks, and in return, he would discuss settling this issue.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Sharon is a mad killer, even if he hasn't actually killed! He's a zionist, they're all killers!

NORMAL PERSON: So, people who don't kill, they're killers?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Yes!

NORMAL PERSON: Hasn't the Palestinian intifada been really self-destructive? Attacking Israel, who was offering peace, and is much more heavily armed than the Palestinians, doesn't seem smart. Yet Palestinians keep doing it, refuse to call off their intifada, and then complain that they're losing the battle. Is that accurate?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Yes! Well, no! I mean, yes! Errr, you're just spewing pro-Israel propaganda!

NORMAL PERSON: It appears I'm telling the truth, based on observing what's actually happening.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: You are a racist zionist and I won't fall for your tricks!

NORMAL PERSON: What?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: zionism is racism!

NORMAL PERSON: zionism means the support of the existence of Israel. In Israel, there are citizens of almost every race on earth. There are arabs, non-arabs, jews, non-jews in the government.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel is an apartheid state! That's why they attack the Palestinians, they want to wipe out all the arabs!

NORMAL PERSON: What? The fact is, every Israeli citizen of every race and every religion has an equal vote, and can run for office. What are you talking about?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists want to kill arab babies!!!!

NORMAL PERSON: You keep saying "zionists." Do you realize that zionism is just the support of the existence of Israel as a jewish homeland? Zionists aren't Israelis, necessarily. Zionists are anyone, anywhere, of any race or religion, who simply support the existence of Israel. Zionists don't necessarily agree with everything Israel does. People disagree. People have different ideas. But to be a "zionist" just means you want Israel to not be taken over and the jews wiped out or overthrown, something arab countries tried repeatedly to do. So when you yell about "the zionists" do you even know who you're yelling about? There are black non-religious circus midgets in alaska, and if they support israel as a jewish homeland, they're zionists.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATICS: crush the zionists, freedom for all! No to racism!

NORMAL PERSON: What?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: You heard me!

NORMAL PERSON: Isn't it strange how if Jews try to live in the West bank or gaza, they are called "illegal settlers," yet in Israel, almost 20% of the population are muslim, and yet they have citizenship of the country?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: That's arab land, Jews have no right to be there!

NORMAL PERSON: So, you just admitted that you are in support of preventing a race or religion from living in one land, yet you demand that the owners of the other land not only give full equality to everyone, but also do favors for those who are trying to destroy the country?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: There you go with your propaganda again!

NORMAL PERSON: You mean, my logic? If it's ok for Saudia Arabia to keep 100% of it's citizenship muslim, while Israel allows it's citizens to practice whatever religion they choose, why are we still attacking Israel for NOT doing what other countries right nearby ARE doing?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: There you go again! Zionist-supporting madmen always try to change the topic!

NORMAL PERSON: It appears you want to single Israel out for everything under the sun, even when all you have to do to find infinitely worse behavior is point at the map and move your finger 2 inches in any direction.

NORMAL PERSON: I think the solution is for Palestinians to get a new leadership, made up of responsible, civil moderates who are not islamic extremists, and to work with them to stamp out Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists will never stop attacking Israel regardless of what Israel does, and once the Palestinian populations are under control, help support those moderate leaders and guide Palestine into becoming a responsible state. If the current terrorists who have run Palestine for 40 years are allowed to control the state, then once it's a strong state they'll probably just go right back to attacking Israel, resulting in a giant war, which no one should want.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel must end the occupation today, give "right of return" for all Palestinians, pay them for all the trouble they've had, and give up their zionist dream!

NORMAL PERSON: But if Israel gives a "right of return" for palestinians, and a few million palestinians flood into Israel, Israel would no longer be a jewish state, jews would be a minority, and with tens of thousands of those palestinians being hamas and islamic jihad members, the jews of israel would probably be wiped out, or forced to flee.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: So? That's fair!

NORMAL PERSON: How in heck is that fair?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: It's fair! Stomp out racism, end zionism, freedom for all!

NORMAL PERSON: So your idea of freedom means Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and a few million Palestinians who want to destroy Israel being allowed to move into Israel so they can wipe out the Jews there and take over?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: I am for fairness and equality, no racism!

NORMAL PERSON: If you demand that Palestinians who once lived in Israel be given homes and payment for what they lost, will you also demand that Jews who once lived in two dozen arab countries be given homes and payment for what they lost? The FACT is, there were hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who once lived in Israel and no longer do, and there were ALSO hundreds of thousands of Jews who once lived in arab countries but had to flee for safety to Israel. If you are going to demand that one set of refugees be compensated, shouldn't you demand that both sides of refugees be compensated.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: No, because I really just hate the jews, errr, uhhhhh, I didn't mean that, I meant I'm anti-zionist, down with zionism, up with israel being destroyed, that's fair, ummm, you're twisting my words, cease your propaganda! Israel shoudln't even exist, it was formed violently!

NORMAL PERSON: Do you realize that there was violence in the formation of almost every country on earth?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: There may be violence, but not from foreign invaders!

NORMAL PERSON: Actually, for decades Israel was being formed by peaceful jewish immigrants moving in and building up communities and towns, alongside and with muslims and arabs around. There was violence when the state was formed, but isn't that true of almost every country/state on this planet? Have you actually looked at how most countries on earth have been formed?

CRAZY ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel has no right to exist, it was carved out of arab territories!

NORMAL PERSON: But, half of earth was carved out of pre-existing territories. Are you against Pakistan existing? Muslims already had a few dozen muslim countries, yet Pakistan was carved out of India. America was run by native american indians, do you also call for americans to leave america and go back to where they came from? How much history do you want to undo? It appears that Israel was formed by settling, building, growing, and then international recognition by pretty much the whole world, outside of arab countries, half of which were formed by european invasion and turned into official countries pretty much the same way.

CRAZY ISREAL-HATING LUNATIC: why do you keep changing the subject?!?!

NORMAL PERSON: Because I'm bringing historical and honest perspective into this. It appears you want to single Israel out for doing things that about half the world has done. Yet, you make no mention of the rest of the world. You just single Israel out, exaggerate their alleged wrongdoings, with no actual historical perspective or sense of reality whatsoever.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: More propaganda. You watch fox news, don't you!

NORMAL PERSON: I watch everything. I also try to learn about everyplace. I try to have an educated, balanced perspective when analyzing things, so that my opinions have some validity. If you want to undo Israel, then if you apply the SAME STANDARDS across the globe, you'd probably undo about half the nations on this planet. That makes no sense.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: You kill babies! Israel's settlements must cease!

NORMAL PERSON: The more Palestinians attack Israel, the more it appears Israel will allow more settlements. Israel offered to remove them in exchange for peace. But a terrorist intifada came instead. So, the settling continued. Anyway, as I said before, why is it that if Jews live in the West bank right now, they are called "illegal settlers," but Muslims who live in Israel right now maintain full citizenship?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: I don't know, why does israel like to shoot children?

NORMAL PERSON: Most hamas terrorists are teenagers. Who can be called "children." If people attack you with guns, or rocks, or bombs, and you shoot them, is it fair to call you a "killer of children?" Why did Palestinians reject Israel's peace offers and send their children to attack heavily armed soldiers? Doesn't that seem irresponsible, dangerous and self-destructive?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Israel WANTS to shoot those kids!

NORMAL PERSON: Really? Then why aren't hundreds or thousands of those kids dying each day? Israel has the power to do that.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Zionists are killers!

NORMAL PERSON: So, the fact is, Israel is restrained to the point where instead of just wiping out hundreds or thousands at a time, they are going after members of terrorist groups who mingle with innocent people, and in street war where everyone from armed killers to kids with rocks are attacking Israeli soldiers, yet Israel has still resisted using massive force and massive casualties. So, the fact is, Israel barely kills compared to what they could do. SO, they're by definition, restrained. Yet, you say they aren't. Even though they are. Right?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Jews are greedy and want to steal the money of those children?

NORMAL PERSON: What?

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: Whoops, I meant that the zionists are greedy and want to kidnap the, ummm, errrrrr, there you go again using facts on me, that's not fair!

NORMAL PERSON: It appears that when Palestinians end their intiada, and can be represented by responsible human beings who genuinely want peace for both sides, Israel is willing to reward them by handing land control over and work towards the formation of a Palestinian state. Well, a second Palesitnian state. YOu realize that just 100 years ago, the "Palestinian territory" included Jordan, right? That's a fact. About 75% of the Palestinian territory was carved out and turned into transjordan, which became Jordan. THe majority of Jordan citizens are "Palestinians." That's a fact. So, really, the West bank and gaza will be a second Palestinian state.

CRAZED ISRAEL-HATING LUNATIC: STop it, you're confusing me. Jews run the world! Stop them and their zionist dreams!

NORMAL PERSON: HOpefully, someday, Palestinians are run by sane leaders, and terrorists can be stomped out. And hopefully Israel rewards those efforts by giving control over to those new responsible leaders. It makes no sense for Arafat, or anyone associated with Arafat, to gain control. Terrorism should not be rewarded. And if Palestinin leadership can be supported to the point where they can control Hamas terrorists, so Israel doesn't have to, then Israel will respond in kind, and a responsible, civil Palestinian state can be created. Israel will respond with kindness when it's possible and safe to do so. That is the future I hope for.

Written by  realityandthefuture@hotmail.com

Feel free to repost this any place where people excessive demonize Israel, rant insane negative nonsense about "zionism," etc. Keep my email address on it.