How much freedom for women is there in the Jewish religion? You are persecuting your own Jewish anti-Zionists academics and shooting British ISM peace activists. Here is the lowdown on the reality of Israeli "justice" and "democracy":

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A society created around discrimination.

by Jose Villa


While the Boers and Ulster Protestants can show that they were the majority of the population of some part of their lands for many centuries and that
they
had some historical-territorial continuity, the Israeli Jews only started to arrive to Palestine in this century. They arrived from all the corners of
the
planet. The Jews from Western or Eastern Europe, Yemen, Mesopotamia,
Maghreb,
Central Asia, Kurdistan, the Caucasus, South Africa, the Middle East, Latin America, Australasia, India or Ethiopia had different histories, cultures, histories, traditions, religious practices, languages and races. Some of them evolved in a near complete isolation from other Jewish communities. There are tens or even hundreds of different Jewish religious congregations. The only thing that unites all of them is their common belief in the first Testament and in a common vindication of the old Jerusalem
faith.

Hebrew, a `dead' classical language only used for religious rituals and education, was modernised and transformed into the new `national' language.
In
order to develop Hebrew, Zionists undermined Ladino, the traditional Jewish mother tongue of the Jews in the Ottoman empire based in old Spanish, and Yiddish, the traditional European Jewish language based in old German. The Bolsheviks, on the contrary, massively promoted Yiddish. Publications,
higher
education institutions, schools and even a territory (Birobidjan) where set
up
for the development of the Yiddish culture and language.

Arabic was the language spoken by the overwhelmingly majority of the population in Palestine until 1948. Around half of the Jews that came to Israel after 1948 came from Oriental countries where most of them had
Arabic
as their mother tongue.

Like all discriminatory society Israel had a system based in different
levels
of privileges. The Arabs are the most oppressed but among the Jews the oriental Jews are oppressed by the Azkanazim (Jews from European origins).

The Black Jews (Falasha) suffer racism and discrimination. The Chief rabbinate does not fully recognises their Jewish status. They are a sort of inferior Jew.

Israeli society is also divided amongst religious believers. The most orthodox minority (like the small Naturei Carta) are against the Israeli
state
because they think that a Jewish state could only be created with a Messiah and that the actual one tries to eliminate the Jewish traditional community
in
order to create a modern secularised state. The majority of the orthodox
(the
`crows') wants a fundamentalist Talmudic and segregationist state. They even attack non-orthodox Jews when they drive cars on the Sabbaths (holy
Saturdays)
or when they see women with `improper' clothes. Many Israelis wants a modern and secularised life.

Most nation-states were created claiming the continuity of a people which lived in the assigned territory for many centuries. Most of the nations,despite having an official religion, adopted some secular and non- confessional legal basis. Pakistan was divided from India around religious allegiances. However, most of the people that inhabited Pakistan where the native population.

In India Marxists are against the creation of Khalistan. A Sikh state could be based in a community which is the majority of the population of certain parts of the Punjab. However, it would be created under religious and segregationist communalist basis and would became a reactionary tool
against
the most secularised Sikhs and the Indian population.

The Israeli nation can not offer any territorial-historic continuity. Until the last century less than 5% or even 1% of Palestine where Jews. The Jews which arrived in that land had different histories and they and their immediate ancestors lived mainly in other countries or continents. Their
only
territorial claim to that land was that of descent from the old Israelis who inhabited that land 2,000 years ago. The Welsh, Gaelic and Bretons could claim Britain and even most of Western Europe because the Celts where the majority of the population 2,000 years ago. Different regions in the Balkans and Eastern Europe could have been claimed by Albanians, Serbs, Greeks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Germans, Hungarians, Turks or Polish because only
one
century ago they used to be the majority of the population. With this kind
of
territorial claims the Canaanites or the Philistines, who inhabited
Palestine
before the Jews -as the Bible related- bloody invaded them, could have
better
claims. In fact, The Palestinians can claim to be the direct descendants of them.

A Jewish state can be created only around some religious allegiances because that is the only thing in common that all Jews share. A secular state would mean a republic based on a constitution in which every citizen has equal rights. In the Bolshevik Soviet Union, Jews, who were only 2% of the population, were allowed to lead the Red Army, the two main Soviets and the ruling International Party. Would an Israel entity allow an Arab to became prime minister, mayor of Jerusalem or chief of the army? This is impossible because the state is founded on religious segregation.

A Jewish state in a territory that was populated by a heterogeneous Jewish minority until less than half a century and under the expulsion/oppression
of
its native people, can only survive by means of its Apartheid character.

Can we recognise the right of a Jewish Israeli nation?.-

Palestinians (and progressive Jews) should not recognise the right of Israel to exist. A two-state solution would imply that the Palestinians must
renounce
most of their lands from which they were pushed in the last five decades.

In Argentina, Australia and the USA the native population was largely wiped out and new modern White settler nations where created on the basis of
massive
European emigration. We cannot demand that these big countries should be
given
back to their original peoples. The indigenous populations where reduced to few hundreds of thousands. On the other side tens of millions now constitute industrialised societies.

In these countries we defend the First Nations rights to use their mother tongue in their education and every day life, to have lands and even to achieve self-government in the areas that remain under their control.

Palestine does not offer the same scenario. The Zionists could not
annihilate
large chunks of the local population. There are more than four million Palestinians living under Israeli control or in neighbouring countries.

The Palestinian working class and intelligentsia are among the Middle East's most enlightened and militant ones. Palestinian fighters are at the
forefront
of the region's anti-imperialist struggles. Palestinian demonstrations are a very much supported source of inspiration especially for the hundreds of millions of Arab and Muslim masses.

The idea that the Arabs have to accept the colonist entity as a nation with the right to have its own state, is a demand to surrender made by the most pro-imperialist wings of the ruling classes. The left-wing Palestinians are resisting that capitulation.

If the Arab left came to terms with Israel it would reinforce the Islamic fundamentalist attempt to monopolise the anti-Zionist Arab sentiment. That would be a colossal tragedy.

A bi-national Israeli-Arab state would be an unworkable contradiction. Palestine is the historical denomination of a territory. It does not have an exclusive, segregationist or religious connotation. Christians and Muslims, and even some non-Zionist Jews, used that term. Israel means by its
inception
the desire to create a separate and pure Jewish communalist state.

It is possible to talk about a bi-national or bi-lingual country in Belgium or Wales. In these places different linguistic-cultural communities
developed
alongside each other without any strong degree of discrimination.

In Spain, Iran, the Andes, India and other countries it is possible to argue in favour of the right of self-determination for all its components or even for a multi-national federation. Basque, Kurds, Quechuas, Tamils are
oppressed
nationalities which had historical roots in territories in which they had
been
the majority of the population for centuries.

A bi-national Israeli-Palestinian state would not be based on the equality
of
both communities. The Arabs have the worst jobs and not have the same rights as the Zionists.

Israel and Aliya are inseparable. Israel needs to grant citizenship to every Jew no matter if he/she was born in Argentina or Australia and has never
been
before in the country. Israel provides housing, jobs and benefits to the Jewish emigrants while the Arab native population are denied their rights
to
return to their lands or homes and they cannot have important positions in
the
state, the police or the army.

Marxists oppose Aliya. We are, of course, in favour of free frontiers and against people's displacement. We want open borders for all the Jews,
Gypsies
and other peoples who suffer discrimination. However, we have to oppose colonialist emigration. We opposed the French or Italian attempts to
resettle
poor peasants or workers as colonial tools in Northern Africa. We rejected
the
Rabat's kingdom mass march on Western Sahara because they wanted to solve a land problem in Morocco at the expenses of the Sarahui local population. A democratic secular Palestine should welcome citizens from all countries but they could not accept émigrés which try to create a segregationist state at the expense of the original people.

In Ecuador the Council of Indian Nations (CONAI) demand that this state should accept its multi-national character. The achievement of that goal
would
imply a great conquest for all the Indian peoples. In Palestine the native population are not fighting just to be considered as one of the cultural and national components of the state. Israel is, by definition, based in a
Jewish
supremacist and segregationist platform and in the necessity to ethnically cleanse Plaestine. The Palestinians are claiming their land back. Their historical aim was to refuse to recognise the state that deprived them of their lands and citizenship.

We are not in favour of a bi-cultural Northern Ireland or of a bi-national White/Black South Africa. It does not mean that we are in favour of a
clerical
Catholic all-Ireland or for expelling all the Whites from South Africa. It means that the former privileged community have to accept that they should cease to consider the rest of the population as inferior and to accept that they should be an equal minority.

We are for the destruction of a purely Jewish segregationist and
confessional
state. But that does not mean that we want to drive all Jews to the sea or
to
support another genocide. We want to convince as much Jews as we can that
the
best thing for them is to unite with the Arab workers in order to create a secular non-religious and non-racist egalitarian republic.

The communists promoted the Yiddish culture and they designated a territory for Jewish colonisation. The Jews did not arrive in Birobidjan as a racist segregationist colonist who tried to exclude the native peoples. They coexisted peacefully with the locals. Today, for example, Birobidjan's Slav majority is very keen in maintaining the Jewish identity of that country as
a
means of attracting investments, technology and people to develop it.

In countries where the Jews constituted a compact oppressed majority in some territories (like the Falasha in Ethiopia) it was possible to advocate their right of self-determination, including autonomy or separation. However that right could not be extended to a group of people that wants to come into a
new
country in order to cleanse the local population.

Zionism needs to trample on the rich cultural and linguistic traditions of the Arab, Ladino, Yiddish, Falasha and other Jewish communities in order to create a new Hebrew oppressive nation which is forged in bloodiest battles against the Arab natives. We need to emphasise the fact that the Israeli Jew community is, in fact, a multi-ethnic amalgam. Zionists try to unite them
against a common enemy: the native Arab peoples. We should not help them
in
doing that.

We need to defend many of these communities against the Zionists attempts to deny some of their most progressive traditions (like the Yiddish working
class
movements) and its discriminatory conditions in Israel. Begin and Likud
tried
to use the Oriental Jew resentment against the Azkenazim in a reactionary
way:
trying to transform them into the most patriotic anti-Arab pro-Israeli
force.
We should address the oriental Jews explaining that their enemies are not
the
Arab neighbours or natives but the capitalists and Zionists.

Our demand is for a socialist, secular, multi-ethnic and democratic Palestinian republic. In that country live scores of communities: non- religious Jews and Arabs, secularised Russian-speaking Jews, Ladino-speaking Jews, Yiddish-speaking Jews, Arab-speaking Jews, Muslim and Chritians and
non-
religious people, Hebrew-speakers, different Christian congregations (Armenians, Copts, Catholic, Orthodox, Maronnite, Protestants, etc.),
Muslims
(Shias, Sunni, etc.), Druses, Bedouins, non-Talmudic Jews (Samaritans, Falasha, Karaite), tens of Hasidic and non-Hasidic Jews, Bahai, etc.

All these communities should have equal rights. No single community should impose its own religion onto the state. A secular constitution with a
secular
civic code should regulate their activities. There would not be special treatment for those of the same religion which come from other countries. Palestinians should have the right to return.

A democratic multi-ethnic Palestine could only be achieved as a result of a socialist revolution based on workers councils and militias. It would also
be
part of a socialist federation of the Middle East. In that context not only Palestinians would have the right to return but also Arab Jews would have
the
right to return to Syria, Morocco, Iraq and other Arab countries. Kurds, Assyrian and other nationalities would achieve self-determination and equal rights.

Hey Ho,

Many thanks for the pre-processed, anti-israel, poorly researched rant - but why don't you just address the original posting:

"Iraqis evict Palestinian refugees. What happened to Muslim brotherhood?"

Your contribution is a classic example of pathogical political correctness: the issue is that Iraq evcited Palestinian refugees. That's a fact according to the BBC.

That's what I'm talking about - that's what you're supposed to be talking about. Perhaps if just took off your racist, dogmatic blinders for a few moments you could participate in a civilised conversation.

The Israel-haters also feel the need to always tell Jews that they need to learn to work with arabs.

HELLO? In case you didn't notice, arabs aren't particularly fond of working with jews. They do enjoy holding all jews responsible for the actions of a few, and killing as many as possible however.

It amazes me that civilied people who sit around on computers and can write in complete sentences side with islamic extremists who want to kill all the infidels ahead of jewish people.

Funny - you're right on the money.

Hypocrite,

Ask a stupid question - get a lucid answer.

Here's your question:

Q: "How much freedom for women is there in the Jewish religion?"

Here 'my' question...and answer:

A: Are you seriously going to try and compare the social standing and gender-equality enjoyed by Jewish women compared to that of Muslim women?

- Have you seen any Jewish ladies in New Jersey or Jerusalem wearing burkas lately?

- Any recent reports of Jewish fathers performing female circumcisions on their daughters?
(Because we can find plenty in the Muslim world).

- Any public stoning or gang-raping of Jewish women who've been accused of committing adultry? (As in Nigeria and Pakistan).

- Have you read about any Jewish women being prevented from driving cars or obtaining passports without first getting their husband's consent? (As in Saudi Arabia).

- Any reports of Jewish husbands staking claim to more than one Jewish wife? (A tradition espoused in the Koran and still practiced in numerous Muslim countries).

- Were you aware that there was once a 'woman', named Golda Miera, who served as the Prime Minister of Israel? How many Arab women are in such positions of power in the Arab world today?

The fact that you recycle some tired racist rant spewed forth by Joe Phallus suggests that you are






Hypocrite,

Ask a stupid question - get a lucid answer.

Here's your question:

Q: "How much freedom for women is there in the Jewish religion?"

Here 'my' question...and answer:

A: Are you seriously going to try and compare the social standing and gender-equality enjoyed by Jewish women compared to that of Muslim women?

- Have you seen any Jewish ladies in New Jersey or Jerusalem wearing burkas lately?

- Any recent reports of Jewish fathers performing female circumcisions on their daughters?
(Because we can find plenty in the Muslim world).

- Any public stoning or gang-raping of Jewish women who've been accused of committing adultry? (As in Nigeria and Pakistan).

- Have you read about any Jewish women being prevented from driving cars or obtaining passports without first getting their husband's consent? (As in Saudi Arabia).

- Any reports of Jewish husbands staking claim to more than one Jewish wife? (A tradition espoused in the Koran and still practiced in numerous Muslim countries).

- Were you aware that there was once a 'woman', named Golda Miera, who served as the Prime Minister of Israel? How many Arab women are in such positions of power in the Arab world today?

- Were you aware that by recycling yet another tired racist rant from Jose ("No Way") Villa, you reveal yourself to be even more intolerant and ignorant than you first appear to be?

going admit it Jews consider arabs to be dogs / dirt / scum
racism is the exclusive preserve of Jews and can only be directed against Jews, the fact that Jews are 100% racists against others is never considered .... it's a big gamble
and if it goes wrong you could be right in the shit ...

Now that Saddam has been deposed, zionazis are aiming their terror beyond occupied Palestine to the Palestinians living in Iraq and Jordan too. Chalabi, the Iraqi they want to install as their puppet, has been an active speaker of AIPAC, the zionist lobby in the US. Its obvious who is pulling the strings behind these house evictions.

While I find most of these postings absolutely pathetic, what I find somewhat reassuring is that no one has actually attempted to counter either of my points: that Iraq evicted Palestinian refugees, and that as far as the treatment of women in concerned, Jewish societies offer far more equality than Muslim societies.

Rather than try and offer rational counter-arguments, the postings have opted for anti-Semetic, rascist rants that have nothing to do with the actual topic.

I wonder why this is...

Below, please take little sniff of the odious odors emitted by the racist gas of Ras:

"Jews are 100% racists against others..."

Needles to say, this statement is as hysterical as it is hateful, and just for the sake of contradicting this ridiculous '100%' calculation, I've got two words for Ras:
- Noam Chomsky -. You can call him a Jew but can you really call him racist?

It don't pass...Ras.

Forgive me for intruding again, but after sending my last posting I quickly reread Ras's email and I'd just like to say that it is truly one of the most assinine and ignorant
spurts of cyber-slime that I've read in a long while.

Keep your foot on the gas - Ras.

The talk of Jewish oppresion of palestinians isprobably justified, but what of the terrrible persecution of Arab Christians by Arab Muslims? Including the thousands of Christians murdered in Sudan by Muslims, who are now killing other muslims, and the right under Islamic law that allows Muslims families to kill thier own Children if they convert to Christianity, or any other faith at that matter.
Just some of the Islaimic counrtires where this occurs are
Iran
Suadi Arabia
Indonesia
Pakistan
Nigeria
Eritrea
e.t.c
Sorry if this offends anyone, but Islam hasn't exactly got a clean human rights record