When will you learn? I will try once more.

Israel is existing due to two reasons.
The white west wanted it there to protect its energy needs.
Although Kuwait was carved out of Iraq in 1932 and many other divide and rule policies were implemented they (the white west) could never trust the Arabs and the Persians and Turks..

Only thing they could be sure about was their selfish greedy consuming pigs at home becoming more demanding.

Then there was a factor of what to do with the jews with so much guilt in their hand.

So Israel was created and *is sustained* bigtime by the white west.

To suggest that this is a global Zionist conspiracy is stupidity.
Zionism is one of the means as much as the energy policy and historical enmity with the middle east etc.

Racism, in the form of total disregard for the value of an arab life is more of a factor than the above three.

The cause of all these is right here with us. It is us.

Instead of asking ...how come Israelis this and Israelis that why not get us to overthrow our leadership so that ineffect
* aid to Israel which it lives off
* the root cause ...our racist foreign policies
* and the selfish greedy way of life (pointing the finger at the wrong person)
come to an end.

Israel will thus reform itself.
I personally think most will return to their original European homelands.

No offence to ISM volunteers etc. who are on a learning mission. Listen to them and I am sure you will hear the same thing.

If it is not in the israeli interest to kill palestinian and foreign civilians, then why are so many kids dying from israeli bullets and tanks?

From my own visit to palestine last year, i learnt that sadly The Israeli administration have no regard for arab life

"he Israeli administration have no regard for arab life"

No, I don't think you should conclude THAT. I believe Israelis DO have some regard for Arab lives and the lives of third parties who insert themsleves in between a tribal conflict. It's just that they have LESS regard for the lives of others than they do for their own.

In this regard they seem remarkably similar to most humans on the planet. Which raises an interesting question. You may be among the minority of humans who belive all human life should be valued equally and I applaud that idealism. But pray tell, exactly WHY do you only seem remarkably concerned about the Israelis in this regard. You don't see the SAME differential in valuing human life elsewhere? Or for that matter, you don't see it right at home? How curious.

61. We are concerned about the plight of the Palestinian people under foreign occupation.
We recognize the inalienable right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to the
establishment of an independent state and its recognizes the right to security for all States in the
region, including Israel, and call upon all States to support the peace process and bring it to an
early conclusion;

is found at

 http://www.racism.gov.za/substance/confdoc/misdecl.pdf

This was aglobal consensus waterd down heavily by the USA and UK and obviously.

I know you Mike, you will jump up at the two words 'including Israel' but what you must realise is that lot of IMF threats and other threats were made to include those two words and more alarmingly remove the caluses that were trying to highlight the illegal nature of Israel's very existence.

Anyhow the fact is it is the world that says Israeli administration as highlighted by Undercurrent and you is an illegal one becasue it is an occupation of the palestine nation. NOTE PALESTININANS ARE NOT A TRIBE BUT A NATION OF PEOPLE WHERE A MINORITY JEWISH TRIBE LIVED BEFORE THE UK AND THE USA TURNED THE TABLE UPSIDE DOWN.

to use the word target does suggest that they are being deliberately targetted and you even accept yourself this isn´t at all in the IDF´s interest. Some problems I have with the ISM are:

(i) Why choose this place to be a peace activist? There are lots of really shit places in the world where bad stuff is happening but what drives these people to choose this one? It certainly isn´t the most important, worst or even one where the presence of internationals is that productive or helpful and certainly one which as a european I´d think twice about getting involved in.

(ii) Why are the ISM reports getting on the newswire so much compared to other places? I don´t want to diss anyone for having good PR but the impression it gives is that the problem in the middle east is really the worst thing ever. Where are the reports from other countries, civil wars, famines etc? This gives a wrong impression of the world.

(iii) The conflict obviously has 2 sides but what work are the ISM doing to create "peace" on both sides? In the reports I only hear a stream of anti-Israel stuff but never any work against other parties. Where is the criticism of militants on both sides? Where is the criticism of the PLO etc? What work is being done by the ISM to fight anti-Semitism among palestinians and to curb anti_Israel feeling so that a peaceful solution is possible? Does this even take place?

(iv) In reading the reports and letters I got the disturbing feeling that the people writing them had no idea about the importance of Israel for many Jews and the scale of anti-Semitism worldwide. How do you vet "volounteers" to make sure they are able to deal with the situation and keep in vision the idea of peace despite the circumstances? Are volounteers encouraged to get away now and again to avoid burn out and so that they remain impartial?

(v)Although it´s hard to see stuff like this taking place the ISM surely have to remember that there is an Intifada/war going on. Sitting infront of a digger in Palestine is obviously different to sitting in front of one at Newbury. How productive is it to do this and if as the Israelis claim there are vast tunnel networks or sniper position there, how can this be seen as being neutral? How do you get your info? because if there are tunnels in civilian houses then the ISM are taking sides by defending these and their criticism should be at the arses who purposely placed them there knowing the risks to civilians.

I am still willing to believe that the ISM is a cause with good aims but i feel from the messages it´s sending out that it has (and probably quite naturally) taken sides. In doing this then it is partaking in a struggle against Israel and not for peace and the consequences are obvious....2 dead?. Peace activists must remain so- They can´t get the peace the cry for if the lose impartiality.

your completely out of touch , still trying to make out that
Israel / jews are having a hard time .

Their are (1) the oppressers and (2) the oppressed even a twat like you should be able to work out that the Israelis
are (1) and the palestinians (2) .
The fact that the wolrds media does not report the truth is nothing to do with the fact that it's controlled by the palestinians . is it ?

Dario,

Your first point is very true..

(i) Why choose this place to be a peace activist? There are lots of really shit places in the world where bad stuff is happening but what drives these people to choose this one? It certainly isn´t the most important, worst or even one where the presence of internationals is that productive or helpful and certainly one which as a european I´d think twice about getting involved in.

The global problems are many.
But I think ISM is a baby starting off in unchartered territory ie, the pig west.


But towards the end you give away another truth... you (another priviledged white I guess) will think twice!

ISM volunteers might call themselves anything they want but they are learning that their life is nothing special than another non-white life. Life is easily taken away by armed states. People react in different ways.
It remains to be seen how the ISM and others from wrongly priviledged positions will react and propagate what they have learnt.
I wish them all the best as they are clearly on a fact finding mission. Peace activism is not blurting out the word peace and being herded down Whitehall.
I also wish for more movements like this as a valuable learning experience.

I wish they could turn the unjust inequality (racism) upside down. No more comment...just think about it.

As for all the other points I agree with 'tread's' comments.