London Demo Reports

numbers?

12.04.2003 18:22

how many? the BBC claims 20,000!!! I swear it was WAAYY more than that!

hk

On my way home on the no.12 bus going down whitehall and all our flowers have gone!!!!!

There are some on the green where brian haw is but no way as much as there were outside no.10.

I am disgusted with what has happened. they've just binned our flowers!!!

posy

Direct Action?

12.04.2003 19:45

Where the fuck was the black/anti-capitalist bloc? Why doesn't the STW people tell everyone to head down Oxford St and fuck up the capitalist machine? Last week we had the cops freaking out with just 100 people sitting down. There was at least 100 000 people there today. Surely we could get a 1000 people disrupting so called normality in the city centre. When the capitalists start to lose money we start winning. Remember what a few truckers did 2 years ago? Why isn't that happening now? Who organizes these marches-the police?

Rump

well done

12.04.2003 21:18

most 'anti-capitalists' are busy preparing themselves for mayday. Sorry. Just the way it is. Come down on may 1st to see what we can do.

well versed

Steering committee lost the map

12.04.2003 21:29

Again today we marched through London to hear the same old speeches aimed at people who know they agree with the cause anyway. Following the pathetic waste of time on the US embassy demo (god forbid we should actually cross police barriers!), I emailed the Stop The War Coalition asking why they talked about civil disobedience but didn't actually put their money where their mouth is. Why couldn't they organise large scale disobedience for today rather than taking a stroll from A to B and getting a few seconds on the BBC, I asked. Strangley enough they didn't reply.

The Stop The War Coalition is failing badly to capitalise on the potential this movement has. We could have totally stopped London today but no, they just stage managed us into walking peacefully and then proceeded to congratulate themselves in the same boring speeches we hear again and again about how great the movement is.

Everbody should email them and maybe they'll take notice and bring the country to a halt like they told us all to do (I haven't seen many members of the "steering committee" taking part in sit-ins recently).

bored of speeches

'MAYDAY' We have to be there !

12.04.2003 23:49

Today was bollocks ! I'm not a regular demo attender but I could obviously see no more than ten thousand present, consisting of mainly liberal fluffies and people taking photos (I;m sure to boast to their friends and later grandchildren of their presense in the demo, which they assume has stopped this war on freedom) (wankers!)) but without a real conscience and understanding about whats its all about ( a major insult intended !) plus alot of dissappointed swp paper sellers ( with 100,000 unused trot slogan placards) There were a few people giving out mayday leaflets who I later saw surrounded by police, harassed and photographed. I read the leaflet and from my whole days experience, was by that most inspired and what, most made me think and what inspired me to write this, it was not the text itself but the determination and spirit of the people distributing it. RESPECT! I witnessed later the unbelievable police harrassement of these people and questioned the police about their behaviour but was threatened with being in breach of the peace because of my questioning ??

This demo was shit, what is happening to the people in this country ? Why, everywhere else, are people with open minds and brave hearts risking and loosing their lives to fight for freedom of true action. We need to make a statement and mayday seems the chance, We must stop this imperialism, by what ever means . PLEASE THIS IS REAL LIFE.....

NORO
mail e-mail: NORO@HOTMAILCOM

Moving on.....

13.04.2003 06:39

Having done three anti war london marches we decided not to go this time. Having read the posts I think we made the right decision. Iraq is just one battle in a much bigger campaign. Mayday should now be the focus. After all Afghanistan,Iraq, the "war on terror" are all just symptoms. We have to get at the cause. This march was too open to media mis-reporting.
I am a non-violent person and marching against war HAS to be done peacefully or we are guilty of the same sort of hypocrisy we are protesting against. Now we have to focus behind the concept of Global Justice as the "end" and all groups SWT, CND, MAB and everyone alse should combine resources and contact networks to pursue this.
However, the "means" by which to achieve results are a different matter. We have to use all the media propagandist methodology used by the mainstream. The next vehicle is Mayday. This event has a significant history and, whilst not always pretty, has a lot of power and will receive a lot of publicity. Sundays action dilutes the potential impact of MayDay.
If this years MD is policed in line with the most recent two, ie in line with the global corporate theme of protection of property at the expense of human rights then, I am sad to say, property is up for grabs. Violence against people is, IMHO, never permissible (with a few exceptions).
C U there, Paul

paul
mail e-mail: paul@pinny.eurobell.co.uk

tactics

13.04.2003 08:51

re. some of the comments I've seen about saterday's demo. I know it feels like that marching every week is getting us nowehere, however it is important to keep the issue going, and even more important that we don't allow the more confrontational elements to alienate the large group within society who are unhappy and unsure about war in Iraq by providing the police with the oppertunity of branding us criminals and thugs. The size ofthe demo in February is now something of a millstone round our necks in one regard, however it is also an indication of the strength of feeling that exists.We would be playing into the hands of the police and govt. if the major set-piece marches were to become violent, and we would lose public sympathy massively as a result. What I'd suggest is that the organisers do start organising more direct actions of civil disobedience but that it clear to those involved what is likely to ensue, this would not expose peaceful demonstators to highly likely police violence. By organising in this way people out with their children and older demonstrators will not be intimidated or possibly injured. I believe that the war has entered a new and possibly much more dangerous phase and that the news media will find it harder to present propaganda style set-pieces, the omens in Iraq are very bad as civil law has collapsed and the US and UK forces appear clueless, nervous and trigger happy. Public opinion will very soon start asking themselves what are we doing there as the "liberation" turns quickly to armed occupation of a sullen and frightened people. Finally, we must avoid just talking to ourselves, this means agitating, educating, and persuading people that our cause is correct and moral. We will not achieve that by some of the comments made previously.

george

Well done

13.04.2003 09:15

Well done to everybody that marched. Its seems that large numbers have wavered over the issue of the war after all the propaganda this week, so it was totally necessary to stay on the streets and an acid test for the movement. As for the 'I didn't march because i'm so radical' argument, please.

Dave

What I think

13.04.2003 10:25

first off, according to the police it was 20 000 - 30 000, according to the organisers it was 200 000, I put it somewhere in the middle at 100 000. Secondly all radical anti-capitalists should go to these demonstrations, because tony won't listen to us if we don't go out in force, and constantly go. I have to agree though that there should be more civil disobedience, and that more direct action should be taken. Also about photos, I always take photos, at these protests. We need the evidence, we need to remember who went, and why we went. There is no better way to capture the spirit of a demonstration than with a picture.

John Cowley
Homepage: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.cowley1/index.htm

London 12/4

13.04.2003 11:00

Why don't these winging anarchos organise a 100,000 + on the streets of London on a Sat afty. 2million in feb!!

Stop carping and organise something if you want any cred. Otherwise you are p***ing in the wind.

AC

andyC

Failure of the antiwar movement

13.04.2003 11:33

The failure of the antiwar movement is down to 3 things,
imho:

1. Huge amounts of media (esp TV) propaganda have left
the majority of the people wavering or even prowar.

2. Stop the War coalition hatred of anything genuinely
radical. Opportunities for civil disobedience on a huge
scale have been ruined because so many in the antiwar
movement take their info and cues from StWC, and StWC
have refused to publicise sitdowns, actions against
military bases, etc.

3. Failure of us radicals to reach out to large numbers
of people with an alternative. We should have made more
effort to engage with lots of antiwar people with arguments
about direct action, civil disobedience, and anticapitalism,
and to engage with the public in general in a
propaganda-busting way. And perhaps we should have taken
more initiative to "up-the-ante" personally.

But it's not over yet. Our armies are still in Iraq,
and after that other wars seem likely. Let's learn the
lessons and improve... :)

As I see it, our tasks are:

1. Debunk mainstream propaganda.
2. Make StWC obsolete by building something better,
rather than just complaining about their weaknesses.

It isn't going to be easy, but what choice do we really
have?

IF NOT YOU, WHO ELSE?

pondering Saturday

The mass-movement is sticking

13.04.2003 12:41

It is a great shame that not more mass direct action has happened. However it is not true that the stop the war coalition has not called for this. Mass strike action (as has happened with great success in spain) was called for when the war started.
I feel taking out frustrations onto the stop the war coalition is misplaced. It is a great strength of the movement to have kept itself firmly within the mainstream. Saturday's demonstration was incredibly important and to everyone's credit the crowds did come. The continuum of having such a demonstration after a week full of press misinformation and lies was a fantastic achievement. The link from anti-war to the wider scale of anti-imperialism/anti-capitalism was there in everyone's minds.
Saturday was an important, positive day.
Radicalisation is obviously what everyone what wants but it needs to be en masse for real strength.
Organisation: not isolation -or indeed radical elitism- is crucial.

Katya
mail e-mail: miss_katya@hotmail.com

Less talk, more action

13.04.2003 14:41

It is true that StWC called for direct action - but that is all they have done, there has been no support for those that have taken the incentive, and no mention at the rallies. While it's important to hear different speakers and veiwpoints, Most people must be getting fed up with the rallies by now. M22 was dissapointing, I fully expected maybe a couple of speeches then they should have urged people to take whatever action they wanted to do. Yesterday was even worse. Along with a few others I tried to do something yesterday, and ended up being watched, followed & photographed by the FIT. We managed to shake them eventually, but by then the 60 or so people that had gathered had reduced to about 20. Did a bit of marching round Soho, which was pretty ineffectual...

So, people, Mayday must be huge. send an SAE to:
BM Mayday,
WC1N 3XX

for a map of targets (arms / oil companies, banks, multinationals etc), organise with your local group to target one of them (picket, blockade, occupation, die-in, red paint attack - whatever you are comfortable with), phone in sick to work or bunk off school and get down to London, or organise something locally, be inventive, Mayday is OUR day. If we show StWC what we are capable of, maybe they will start to take civil dissobedience more seriously.
More info (includng info on bigger demo's happening on the day) is at www.ourmayday.org.uk

bogzla

STWC doesn't sit down?

13.04.2003 16:56

STWC doesn't support sit-downs? The day war broke out, I saw every member of the steering committee that I personally could recognise sitting in front of the bus outside of Parliament.

Their failure to officially or strongly enough publicise/embrace more radical action, as you seem to percieve it, is an attempt to draw in as many anti-war people as possible, not a refusal to 'belive in,' as it were, direct action...arguably, the movement IS directly tied to anti-capitalist sentiments (as the war itself is obviously inextricably linked to business interests, etc) and those should be given serious consideration, but the main objective was and is an urgent need to END THE CONFLICT. The STWC did not want to alienate anyone with a gut reaction against the war, as proving that a majority of society is against the war is an incredibly important IMMEDIATE GOAL.
Completely agree with the long-term necessity for direct action and anti-capitalist movements, and the STWC is participating in mayday...
hate to be a pragmatist in this one....

Kiss distinctly american

Get the MAB to mobilise for May Day

13.04.2003 17:26

One of the features of Anarchist MayDays is that the demonstrators are predominantly white, this may day we need to get everyone out StWC, trade unions, anarchists, socialists, anti-capitalists, and particularly members of the moslem community.
For the first time in a long time, the possibility exists for a May day that isn't separate SWP/GR/Trade Union march vs. predominantly (left-liberal) "anarchists" & white crusties banging drums, but something far more radical and dynamic!

ANTONIUS CLIFFUS JNR.

About STWC and civil disobedience

13.04.2003 17:48

Yes STWC called for civil disobedience for when war was declared, and hundreds and thousands of people across the country took the big decision to step into the road and take action.

It is a big shame however that they did not do more to promote this tactic. Given the tight control they had over the massive demonstrations it would have been easy for them to call a 30minute sit down at a certain time within those marches. It would not have alienated people, would have looked amazing for the media, and would have given many people inspiration and an experience of doing more than just listening to speeches after marching from A to B.

These things need to be remembered. This is not the last time we will have to take to the streets. We have seen new agenda for global foreign policy for the next decade, and it stinks.

Pete

Let's keep honest and active.

14.04.2003 16:02

So the Stop the War Coalition claim 200,000, well i'm sorry to say this, but its bullshit. Why do the StWC have to lie? They said there was 500,000 on the March 22 demo, which is also well over the top.
It makes you look really stupid to consistently overestimate the size of the crowd and only encourages the police to downsize their estimates even more.

WHY NOT BE HONEST!! LET THE POLICE STATE LIE!!

If the Stop the War Coalition really support direct action , then why have they given such little support to the Fairford Peace Camp? and please can they support Mayday??

Miss Point

UK Indymedia

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