SEEN THE DALAI LAMA LATELY???
Ridley Scott | 10.02.2003 11:21
Most world religious leaders have made statements against the war in Iraq, some more than once. A notable absence is the Dalai who have yet to come out in direct condemnation of the impending war. Why is that? It is all well and good talking about peace and all but being selective about it is not useful and certainly not Buddhism.
Christian Leaders Prominent in Anti-War Movement
Sat February 8, 2003 07:27 AM ET
By Alan Elsner, National Correspondent
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Christian church leaders and lay people are taking an usually prominent role in the U.S. anti-war movement, arguing that an attack against Iraq would not fit the theological definition of a "just war."
Leading Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian and Lutheran clergy have for months been issuing statements and writing petitions against the war and urging their followers to join anti-war demonstrations. A leading Methodist bishop even recently appeared on a television commercial against the war.
"The churches are very intensely involved in all aspects of the peace movement. They are playing a very visible and active role and they are equally involved behind the scenes in fundraising, grassroots organizing and just rolling up their sleeves and working," said Tom Andrews, a former Democratic member of Congress who now serves as national director for Win Without War, an umbrella anti-war group.
Barbara Epstein, a history professor at the University of California, Santa Cruz, said church leaders had opposed many past U.S. wars but the extent of their involvement this time was remarkable.
"We see an extensive and growing role of the churches which is very remarkable and is greater than we have seen before," said Epstein, who has studied previous anti-war movements.
That is not to suggest that a majority of U.S. Christians oppose President Bush on Iraq. Many Protestants and Catholics do not agree with their leaders and polls suggest the president enjoys overwhelming support from southern conservatives, many of whom are evangelical Christians.
Richard Land, speaking for the 16 million-member Southern Baptist Convention, the largest denomination in the United States, recently wrote to Bush assuring him that the Iraqi threat satisfied the conditions of a "just war."
The same split emerged in the 1991 Gulf War, when some Protestant and Catholic leaders raised moral concerns about the U.S. military campaign to expel Iraq from Kuwait. But protests then were on a much smaller scale.
At the heart of the debate is the Christian doctrine of a just war, first formulated by St. Augustine in the 5th century and built upon by later generations.
"In religious terms, the issue comes down to the just war tradition, which holds that religion can sanction the constrained use of violence but only if certain conditions are fulfilled," said Frank Kirkpatrick, a professor of religion at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut.
The current formulation lays out seven principles under which war is permissible: to resist aggression or to defend its victims; it should be waged to secure just goals; it should be a last resort; it should be waged by a legitimate legal authority; it should be limited in scope; its human cost should be proportionate to the good it is intended to achieve, and it should exclude civilians and noncombatants.
"The key provision is the one referring to war only as a last resort. That's where most of the churches feel that Bush has not yet made his case," said Kirkpatrick.
Bush acknowledged the debate in his State of the Union address last week when he said, "If war is forced upon us, we will fight in a just cause and by just means."
VEHEMENT LANGUAGE
Some of the language of church leaders against the war has been surprisingly vehement. United Methodist Board of Church and Society director Jim Winkler caused a stir in religious circles in September 2002 when he stated it was "inconceivable that Jesus Christ would support this proposed attack."
A few weeks later, the Methodists wrote to Bush, who is a member of their church, saying, "A preemptive war by the United States against a nation like Iraq goes against the very grain of our understanding of the gospel, our church's teachings, and our conscience."
More recently, Frank Griswold, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, got into a public dispute with former President George Bush, father of the present incumbent.
In an interview with a religious news service, Griswold said, "We are loathed and I think the world has every right to loath us ... I'd like to be able to go somewhere in the world and not have to apologize for being from the United States."
The elder Bush, who is an Episcopalian, said, "I found these particular quotes to be offensive. And knowing the president as I do, I found them uncalled for."
Spurred by statements from Pope John Paul II, who last month implored Washington to look for peaceful ways to settle its differences with Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, Catholic leaders have also spoken out strongly against the war.
New York Cardinal Edward Egan recently called for U.N. weapons inspectors to be able to continue their work in Iraq. During a teleconference for priests, Egan said that justifying war requires "clear and certain knowledge of a clear and certain danger."
George Weigel, a prominent Catholic commentator and biographer of Pope John Paul II, said just war theory needed to be updated to meet new conditions, specifically the emergence of international terrorism and the spread of weapons of mass destruction. He believes war against Iraq is justified.
"Some of these clerical opponents of war have given themselves over to a functional pacifism, a conviction that there are virtually no circumstances in which the proportionate and discriminate use of armed force can serve the goals of peace, order, justice and freedom," he said.
"The evangelical churches seem to have a clearer understanding of what wickedness can do in the world, a realization of the reality of evil," he said. http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2192937
Sat February 8, 2003 07:27 AM ET
By Alan Elsner, National Correspondent
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Christian church leaders and lay people are taking an usually prominent role in the U.S. anti-war movement, arguing that an attack against Iraq would not fit the theological definition of a "just war."
Leading Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian and Lutheran clergy have for months been issuing statements and writing petitions against the war and urging their followers to join anti-war demonstrations. A leading Methodist bishop even recently appeared on a television commercial against the war.
"The churches are very intensely involved in all aspects of the peace movement. They are playing a very visible and active role and they are equally involved behind the scenes in fundraising, grassroots organizing and just rolling up their sleeves and working," said Tom Andrews, a former Democratic member of Congress who now serves as national director for Win Without War, an umbrella anti-war group.
Barbara Epstein, a history professor at the University of California, Santa Cruz, said church leaders had opposed many past U.S. wars but the extent of their involvement this time was remarkable.
"We see an extensive and growing role of the churches which is very remarkable and is greater than we have seen before," said Epstein, who has studied previous anti-war movements.
That is not to suggest that a majority of U.S. Christians oppose President Bush on Iraq. Many Protestants and Catholics do not agree with their leaders and polls suggest the president enjoys overwhelming support from southern conservatives, many of whom are evangelical Christians.
Richard Land, speaking for the 16 million-member Southern Baptist Convention, the largest denomination in the United States, recently wrote to Bush assuring him that the Iraqi threat satisfied the conditions of a "just war."
The same split emerged in the 1991 Gulf War, when some Protestant and Catholic leaders raised moral concerns about the U.S. military campaign to expel Iraq from Kuwait. But protests then were on a much smaller scale.
At the heart of the debate is the Christian doctrine of a just war, first formulated by St. Augustine in the 5th century and built upon by later generations.
"In religious terms, the issue comes down to the just war tradition, which holds that religion can sanction the constrained use of violence but only if certain conditions are fulfilled," said Frank Kirkpatrick, a professor of religion at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut.
The current formulation lays out seven principles under which war is permissible: to resist aggression or to defend its victims; it should be waged to secure just goals; it should be a last resort; it should be waged by a legitimate legal authority; it should be limited in scope; its human cost should be proportionate to the good it is intended to achieve, and it should exclude civilians and noncombatants.
"The key provision is the one referring to war only as a last resort. That's where most of the churches feel that Bush has not yet made his case," said Kirkpatrick.
Bush acknowledged the debate in his State of the Union address last week when he said, "If war is forced upon us, we will fight in a just cause and by just means."
VEHEMENT LANGUAGE
Some of the language of church leaders against the war has been surprisingly vehement. United Methodist Board of Church and Society director Jim Winkler caused a stir in religious circles in September 2002 when he stated it was "inconceivable that Jesus Christ would support this proposed attack."
A few weeks later, the Methodists wrote to Bush, who is a member of their church, saying, "A preemptive war by the United States against a nation like Iraq goes against the very grain of our understanding of the gospel, our church's teachings, and our conscience."
More recently, Frank Griswold, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, got into a public dispute with former President George Bush, father of the present incumbent.
In an interview with a religious news service, Griswold said, "We are loathed and I think the world has every right to loath us ... I'd like to be able to go somewhere in the world and not have to apologize for being from the United States."
The elder Bush, who is an Episcopalian, said, "I found these particular quotes to be offensive. And knowing the president as I do, I found them uncalled for."
Spurred by statements from Pope John Paul II, who last month implored Washington to look for peaceful ways to settle its differences with Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, Catholic leaders have also spoken out strongly against the war.
New York Cardinal Edward Egan recently called for U.N. weapons inspectors to be able to continue their work in Iraq. During a teleconference for priests, Egan said that justifying war requires "clear and certain knowledge of a clear and certain danger."
George Weigel, a prominent Catholic commentator and biographer of Pope John Paul II, said just war theory needed to be updated to meet new conditions, specifically the emergence of international terrorism and the spread of weapons of mass destruction. He believes war against Iraq is justified.
"Some of these clerical opponents of war have given themselves over to a functional pacifism, a conviction that there are virtually no circumstances in which the proportionate and discriminate use of armed force can serve the goals of peace, order, justice and freedom," he said.
"The evangelical churches seem to have a clearer understanding of what wickedness can do in the world, a realization of the reality of evil," he said. http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2192937
Ridley Scott
Comments
Hide the following 9 comments
HH Dali Lhama
10.02.2003 11:53
I would suggest you concentrait you religious concern around those who go to war with "God on their side" and to those so called religious people who fight wars.
Lobsang
His Holiness Speaks
10.02.2003 12:13
Dan
Oh goody!!!
10.02.2003 12:24
And I had to prod him so many times!!!
With so many other world religious leaders (leading, and longwhile ago) against war, joining in the condemnation now can't be all that bad!!!
Now lets wait for Richard Gere to join those in Hollywood speaking out against the war!!!
Richard Gerebil
Look at the dateline...
10.02.2003 12:32
NOt that it matters, for pitys sake. This isn't a religious race. . And if you can find a single Buddhist in favour of this war I will be extremely surprised (and also dubious about their grasp on either the Eightfold Path or the world political situation...)
Matt
Matt S
hmmmm so preach to me!!!
10.02.2003 12:53
Us poor ignorant sheep led by donkeys!!!
Richard Gerebil
That ol familiar "I'm more religious" crap..
10.02.2003 20:16
Is one to fear that some "Buddhist judge", self-appointed, self-anointed, good reincarnation-pedigree sits and determine who is and is not of suitable grade Buddhist???
Seems like jobs for the inquisition hitlers!!!
Bush is on such a crusade but of a "higher plane"...
Sure takes one to know one!!!
Grand Poobah
keep your christian bullshit propagand off IM
11.02.2003 01:28
NO GODS
NO MASTERS
NO SURRENDER
Anarchy
e-mail: --------------------------------------
HOHoH!!! Temper!!!
11.02.2003 10:20
A lot of steam and no substance as usual. Anarchists are the born-losers. Born-losers because there is no ideology to what they are about. It is not necessary that one should have any ideology (including religion) but anarchists are something else.
Anarchists are people who are light in the head but want others to think they have got substance. They are too lazy to find out, to explore, etc any ideology. the cop-out which is anarchy is nothing but hollow posturing. In other words, a big ego trip, a need to be "different", to be "with it".
Just see what an anarchist, when he/she thinks he/she/it is reading between the lines and "sussing" out someone he/she/it always get it wrong. I am no christian, nor Buddhist either!!! Neither do I have to get ihto the goody-goody game (judgemental) and posturing that some person who has a religious "affiliation" (read 2 books) needs to. All religion are ideologies used to control people. Anarchy is also an ideology (albeit a substandard one).
You see here an anarchist who thinks like a fascist telling others to get off.
So get off here yourself, you little fascist.
And don't swear. It is not nice (only betray your lack of substance: all noise and no content).
So see here, you little social parasite: I don't swear because it is f*cking rude!!!
So piss off yourself, ye who has nothing to wank about!!!
...and an Amen up your rear end too!!!
Richard Gerebil
we don't get to know
11.02.2003 13:35
the think is the media is controled by comercial groups which doesn't want these voices to be heard.
i think we should aim the media monopolies and do something about it too.
best wishes
marcos menezes
marcos