With one in four people now going on to higher education there is simply no other way of funding higher education than through fees. Thirty years ago only one in twelve people went onto higher education so it didn't cost the government or the tax payer as much. But to make all higher education free today would mean a massive rise in taxes which would harm the economy! Also the tax burden falls on ordinary working people as well not just capitalists. Also the people who go into higher educaion go on to get the most high paid jobs when they leave so it is only fair that they should pay fees!
Fees are neither inevitable nor neccesary. It should be a fundamental principle of anyone who claims to be anti-capitalist (or like Harlequin a "communist") that education is a right, not a privelige and so something which must be free.
But seeing as Harlequin seems to have swallowed the Blairite line (remember that even the Lib Dems oppose tuition/"top-up" fees) and so it perhaps seems a good idea to look at what he has to say.
He points out accurately that enought that "one in four people now go[...] on to higher education" but then contradicts himself by saying "the people who go into higher educaion go on to get the most high paid jobs." Are we to understand that one fourth of the population is in "the most high paid jobs"? While generally they may end up in better paid jobs, this is far from inevitable and graduate unemployment is on the increase. If they are in fact earning more, they should be paying more taxes and so contributing more to the funding of universities anyway.
He goes on to claim that "to make all higher education free today would mean a massive rise in taxes." While this might be the case, it is hardly the only solution and in my opinion not one anti-capitalists should accept. We should instead demand some of the 323.8 billion this country spends on "defence" or some of the £1 billion set aside in the pre-budget speech to be drawn on "if neccesary" in order "to meet our international defence responsibilities" that is to bomb Iraq into the dust.
He also argues without comment that "the tax burden falls on ordinary working people as well not just capitalists." While this may be the case it is again only the result of the system that we oppose. It is also not that different from the tuition fees system which also "falls on ordinary working class people as well not just capitalists."
We help should build as big a movement for the abolition of tuition fees and against "top-up" fees as possible, but also tie it in with other struggles (the anti-war movement and firefighters spring to mind). This is the only way we can hope to threaten the government and bring about change not just in the area of education, but in those areas we are connecting with.
Work out the maths thirty years ago one in twelve went into higher education today one in four go into higher education that is a three fold increase in people going into higher education therefore spending on higher education has also increased three fold which if it is not met by fees will have to be met by higher taxes which will affect everyone both rich and poor as taxes are put on the things we buy as well as through our incomes. Higher taxes also cause inflation! The aim of any government therefore is too keep taxes down and inflation down as much as possible or else risk wrecking the economy!
You missed my point entirely (not that I'm suprised). There is more than enough money to fund higher education (and the firefighters and other public services)its just that its being spent on a load of high technology junk designed to kill people.
You also insist that the burden of tax will fall as heavily on the poor as on the rich as if this were some imutable law of science - it isn't. This is simply one of the peversities of the system and something we can change if we want to.
Again I feel compelled to ask "who the fuck is Harelquin?" He has written among other things that insisting that communism is about everyone being paid the same (never heard of "from each according to his abilities, to each acccording to his needs"?) and that teachers shouldn't be paid more because their promblem is rising house prices. Perhaps hhe should wander of and join Neo Labour, he'd feel at home there.
Harlequin asserts that the rising cost of higher education "will have to be met by higher taxes which will affect everyone both rich and poor as taxes are put on the things we buy as well as through our incomes."
This is assuming that you accept the idea of "stealth" taxes levied on everything from things we buy to the houses we live in. The only fair system of taxation (ie: one that makes the rich pay a fair and proportional amount towards the running of the country) is income tax. Taxing anything else (such as goods and services) is inherantly unfair because everyone has an approximately equal need for these things and it follows that the poor suffer more from these forms of taxation because they eat a significantly higher proportion of their wages than these same taxes do to the rich.
Compared to the average 46% pay increase in this country over the last 10 years, top-bracket wage earners have seen their pay increase by more than twice that amount. It also seems that the more money you have, the more you are able to avoid fair taxation of your assets due to various loop-holes in our shoddy and incomprensible tax system. The whole thing needs an over-haul, imposing heavy taxation on the super-rich and lessening the burden on the swelling ranks of the poor. Who the hell needs a 6-figure salary anyway?
Less spending on "defense" (aka attack) would help too.
This would allow for free education to degree level for all who wanted it, enriching the country culturally and economically as more and more skilled workers would be available to businesses in the UK.
But then I guess a highly educated populace is not what the government really wants. It would marginalise their power and influence as more people would be able to see through the propoganda-spewing tabloid press, removing their power to control public opinion.
Comments
Hide the following 7 comments
fees
01.12.2002 02:49
sceptic
FUCK sceptic
01.12.2002 10:36
capitalists pay for nothing - just aquire wealth.
workers make the wealth - they pay for everything.
eerrr
Unfportunatly fees are now essential!
01.12.2002 11:38
Harlequin
Who the fuck is Harlequin!
01.12.2002 14:00
But seeing as Harlequin seems to have swallowed the Blairite line (remember that even the Lib Dems oppose tuition/"top-up" fees) and so it perhaps seems a good idea to look at what he has to say.
He points out accurately that enought that "one in four people now go[...] on to higher education" but then contradicts himself by saying "the people who go into higher educaion go on to get the most high paid jobs." Are we to understand that one fourth of the population is in "the most high paid jobs"? While generally they may end up in better paid jobs, this is far from inevitable and graduate unemployment is on the increase. If they are in fact earning more, they should be paying more taxes and so contributing more to the funding of universities anyway.
He goes on to claim that "to make all higher education free today would mean a massive rise in taxes." While this might be the case, it is hardly the only solution and in my opinion not one anti-capitalists should accept. We should instead demand some of the 323.8 billion this country spends on "defence" or some of the £1 billion set aside in the pre-budget speech to be drawn on "if neccesary" in order "to meet our international defence responsibilities" that is to bomb Iraq into the dust.
He also argues without comment that "the tax burden falls on ordinary working people as well not just capitalists." While this may be the case it is again only the result of the system that we oppose. It is also not that different from the tuition fees system which also "falls on ordinary working class people as well not just capitalists."
We help should build as big a movement for the abolition of tuition fees and against "top-up" fees as possible, but also tie it in with other struggles (the anti-war movement and firefighters spring to mind). This is the only way we can hope to threaten the government and bring about change not just in the area of education, but in those areas we are connecting with.
Disillusioned kid
Work out the maths!
01.12.2002 18:13
Harlequin
Pay attention
02.12.2002 10:40
You also insist that the burden of tax will fall as heavily on the poor as on the rich as if this were some imutable law of science - it isn't. This is simply one of the peversities of the system and something we can change if we want to.
Again I feel compelled to ask "who the fuck is Harelquin?" He has written among other things that insisting that communism is about everyone being paid the same (never heard of "from each according to his abilities, to each acccording to his needs"?) and that teachers shouldn't be paid more because their promblem is rising house prices. Perhaps hhe should wander of and join Neo Labour, he'd feel at home there.
Disillusioned kid
income tax is the only fair tax
02.12.2002 13:53
This is assuming that you accept the idea of "stealth" taxes levied on everything from things we buy to the houses we live in. The only fair system of taxation (ie: one that makes the rich pay a fair and proportional amount towards the running of the country) is income tax. Taxing anything else (such as goods and services) is inherantly unfair because everyone has an approximately equal need for these things and it follows that the poor suffer more from these forms of taxation because they eat a significantly higher proportion of their wages than these same taxes do to the rich.
Compared to the average 46% pay increase in this country over the last 10 years, top-bracket wage earners have seen their pay increase by more than twice that amount. It also seems that the more money you have, the more you are able to avoid fair taxation of your assets due to various loop-holes in our shoddy and incomprensible tax system. The whole thing needs an over-haul, imposing heavy taxation on the super-rich and lessening the burden on the swelling ranks of the poor. Who the hell needs a 6-figure salary anyway?
Less spending on "defense" (aka attack) would help too.
This would allow for free education to degree level for all who wanted it, enriching the country culturally and economically as more and more skilled workers would be available to businesses in the UK.
But then I guess a highly educated populace is not what the government really wants. It would marginalise their power and influence as more people would be able to see through the propoganda-spewing tabloid press, removing their power to control public opinion.
Dannyboy