SWP vs anti-SWP: How they try to spread divisions in the antiwar movement
Duppy Conqueror - reposting dead link | 18.11.2002 19:50
Those who want to weaken the antiwar movement are desperate to open up cleavages between the SWP and the rest of us. There are going to be fake pro- and ant- SWP postings used on the web to manipulate a response.
What X or Y said about direct action is irrelevant. Direct Action will happen if people want it to happen.
Those who want to weaken the antiwar movement are desperate to open up cleavages between the SWP and the rest of us. There are going to be fake pro- and ant- SWP postings used on the web to manipulate a response.
Don't rise to the bait. Don't play their game. "Jack from Birmingham" who defends the SWP's goal of mobilizing the masses probably doesn't exist, nor does "Duo/S@m the Anarchist" who is frankly sick and disgusted by the SWP's elitist behaviour...
Their real target is the Stop the War Coalition, which they are desperate to weaken. Just keep on organizing.
Peace and Love
Those who want to weaken the antiwar movement are desperate to open up cleavages between the SWP and the rest of us. There are going to be fake pro- and ant- SWP postings used on the web to manipulate a response.
Don't rise to the bait. Don't play their game. "Jack from Birmingham" who defends the SWP's goal of mobilizing the masses probably doesn't exist, nor does "Duo/S@m the Anarchist" who is frankly sick and disgusted by the SWP's elitist behaviour...
Their real target is the Stop the War Coalition, which they are desperate to weaken. Just keep on organizing.
Peace and Love
Duppy Conqueror - reposting dead link
Comments
Hide the following 26 comments
Five year plan
18.11.2002 23:47
-Claim the anti-war movement as your own.
-Exaggerate the importance of the party in all press releases.
-Sell good capitalism / bad capitalism to the liberal masses.
-Condemn all anarchists and revolutionaries as splitters and elitists.
-Only give approval to DAs where party newspapers are sold.
-Ensure DA activists wear their uniform of silly poster on stick.
-Make sure everyone votes for the party but has no say.
-Rally members to post indymedia with support for their party.
-Avoid all progressive debate.
-Always stick to dogmatic principles.
-Actions must be boring and big. Politics is serious.
-Create large meaningless coalitions to get press coverage.
-Never worry about the policies of potential partners. Numbers are important.
-Blame America for everything.
-Blame Israel for everything else.
-Avoid criticism of capitalism. It only makes potential supporters feel guilty. Conscience cleary scape goat actions and politics sell better.
-Send all those “radicals” who disagree to Siberia for rehab.
Josef from the grave
Order
19.11.2002 01:35
Thank you
Your welcome
spizz energy
So Now Debate=State!!!!
19.11.2002 09:11
I am sorry but i am a very real person and think its out of order to say that anyway who dares to stand up to the SWP wrecking tactics (which have, as i have stated elsewhere on IM, included in Brum going round smearing opponents as 'racists' 'scabs' 'fascists'..), what are we suppossed to do in the face of repeated and vicious attacks by the SWP?
In Brimingham all those from across the political spectrum who have got sick to the back teeth of the SWP are involved in a broad based and active antiwar group..i suggest that others do the same..work around the SWP rather than waste time getting bogged down in their sectarian shite!
Victor, the All Seeing, the All Knowing
Victor
Moi?
19.11.2002 09:30
How did you know my name? As a sectarian of several years good standing i must protest at your smear that i wish to mobolise the masses! Lord it over a few SWP hackheads yes, mobolise a broad based movement? Sir, that will never happen on my watch!
Jack, from Birmingham
Jack From Birmingham
angry
19.11.2002 10:53
note, i will be posting a more detailed J,accuse SWP on Florence soon
oirish dissenter
Not as big as you think
19.11.2002 11:11
ESF participant
Talk is cheap (re-post)
19.11.2002 11:53
Q: How many anarchists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:-none anarchists never change anything
Q:how many SWP'ers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None- you don't CHANGE the lightbulb you SMASH the lightbulb
Why not rather than carry on with this endless and pointless debate we stand up from our computers- get some white paint go outside to a public place and draw an outline of a figure on the road (police chalk line style). write the anti war slogan or url of your choice in the figure and repeat thousands of times throughout the country- this would certainly make clear the level of opposition in the county and be an effective recruiting tool for the anti-war movement-
JMayler
ESF- The Shocking Truth
19.11.2002 11:56
The idea of the Social Forum movement is to bring together the disparate campaigns that have sprung up across Europe in recent years – environmentalists, anti-racists, peace activists, trade unionists and anti-globalisation groups to mention just some and there were over 40,000 people in Florence for the European Social Forum.
Sadly for some of the fantasists of the Britleft the ESF is no forlorn attempt to recreate a Comintern or Fifth International guided by some omnipotent Leninist vanguard – rather it has a loose, open structure which reflects the diversity of the new pluralistic radical left that is beginning to shape.
Well that applies to the continental part of the movement at least.
As far as the British delegation was concerned they appeared to believe that ESF stood for English Sect Fest.
In the absence of vibrant new movements in their own country and in a bid to get round the non-recognition of political parties at the Forum, Britain’s sectarians opted for a fancy dress disguise to gatecrash the party.
So officially the Socialist Workers Party were not there. Instead the much more ‘new movement’ sounding Globalise Resistance were present although not surprisingly all the GR members appeared to be selling Socialist Worker and GR’s ‘star’ speaker was SWP Central Committee member Alex Callinicos.
The Alliance for Workers Liberty came dressed up as No Sweat, Workers Power came in their psuedo-anarcho ‘Revo’ outfit and the Socialist Party with their usual lack of flair adopted the highly unimaginative titled ‘International Socialist Resistance’ facade (complete with cliched ‘anarcho youth’ type-set).
Now readers need no reminding our sectarian pals are usually pretty adept at making their voices heard at meetings but they all looked strangely lost in Florence.
After all there were no elections to fight for, no binding resolutions or amendments to scrap over, no formal leadership to denounce, no majority to be in opposition to, not even rival political parties to argue with and split from. What was the point of it all then?
Martin Thomas of the AWL admitted that he and his fellow Brits were more than a bit disorientated by the whole thing.
He described how most of them had simply been: “Overwhelmed by the vast welter of events, spent more time joining the swirl of humanity at the Forum's main sites, dropping in and out of sessions, picking up the atmosphere”.
So in other words without any set-piece sectarian battles Martin and his pals just wondered around wondering what do with themselves.
The same goes for our friends from the Weekly Worker who appear to be rather annoyed that in meetings of several hundred people from all over the world that time was not put aside for an automatic contribution from their tiny, irrelevant London based sect.
“Trying to introduce minority politics in the 30 minutes ‘free time’ that followed the platform speeches - amongst all the others vying to speak - was, quite frankly, a joke,” writes ‘Bob Paul’ in this week’s paper.
So instead of maybe listening and learning something from the meetings, the boys and girls from the ‘cpgb’ decided to sit in a corridor and have a natter with passer-bys.
“It was left to comrades on stalls and the team selling the Weekly Worker to get our politics heard and then on a one-to-one basis,” says ‘Bob’.
Mmm bet that was fun for those lucky enough to get a ‘one-on-one’ session with our ‘Bob’.
Even the hardened activists of the Socialist Party/Committee for a Workers International/International Socialist Resistance, when they weren’t getting involved in fisticuffs in bars with the SWP, also found it all a bit much.
Under the refreshingly honest sub-header ‘Confusion’, Christine Thomas, writes in The Socialist “Although most people felt enthusiastic about the size and international character of the Forum, with so many platform speakers putting forward so many different ideas there was no clear alternative or direction coming out of most of the sessions.”
What to do with all those ideas eh Christine? Far easier when it was just you and the SWP arguing over the constitution of the Socialist Alliance perhaps?
However it appears that unlike the Weekly Worker and the AWL, the CWI did at least manage to work out how to participate in the meetings and they must surely have opened a few eyes among those niave Europeans with this startlingly radical suggestion to the audience of committed left wing activists.
“We explained how war, terror, attacks on workers' rights, racism, environmental destruction and all the others problems discussed at the Forum are rooted in the capitalist system which is based on exploitation, inequality and the pursuit of profit,” say the CWI.
So it wasn't all a waste of time then -- Britain's finest sectarians managed to fly across Europe to explain to a forum full of anti-capitalists that they should be....... against capitalism.
Where would we be without them?
Tony Cliff
Excellent article, Tony
19.11.2002 12:58
I find the far left (and not just the SWP) to be a bunch of smug mainly male, mainly white and mainly middle-class people who repeat, apparently verbatim, a stock of text book answers in every debate. If you disagree, you are treated as ignorant, sectarian or insane. I've been shouted in the face and stabbed at with fingers by SWPers and the like for saying things such as "class struggle isn't the only form of struggle", "racism is not necessarily rooted in the capitalist mode of production" and "the jihad is not a socialist revolution".
I've been accused of being sectarian for suggesting that left parties, particularly the SWP, tend to flood single issue groups, dominate their organisation and then leave them high and dry when the single issue has disappeared from the headlines. One day it's third world debt, another it's globalisation, another its war, another it's racism - none of them is explored in any depth or for every long. And each day has a different slogan, which has little meaning and often appears to contradict the party ideology. I know, I've been there and endured SWP membership for three years.
The Anti-Nazi League, which is an SWP front, is a case in point. The ANL sweeps into Bradford every election time to "smash the BNP", thereby side-lining other local working-class concerns and making local anti-racist activists appear stupid. The ANL rhetoric is inane and their tactics are counter-productive. Then they vanish, leaving the BNP to continue its long-term strategy of building up support. When I have raised this point, I've been shouted down as if I was a BNP sympathiser. There is not "if" or "but", just "us" and "them". And if you are not "us" then you are "them" and you are treated like shit.
As for the ESF not giving the British left enough time to push their party, have they ever found the time for debate on party tactics or the party line? Go to any Marxism "conference" (read: "rally") and make a point that strays from the party line and you will be laughed or shouted at.
After years in the SWP, I decided that I should become an independent Marxist, belonging to no party. I am not a Leninist; I don't believe parties are good "vanguards" for revolution or that party leaders have people's best interests at heart. I am a libertarian who enjoys being with people who are free-thinking and may not agree with everything I say. I devote my time to causes which I have an interest in and can devote my efforts in the long-term. One of my interests is the cause of the 260 million Indian "untouchables" who are being persecuted by the Hindu fundamentalist government. It's more satisfying than being in a party and it achieves far more than selling papers and shouting at marches. Moreover, I am more able to influence others with Marxist arguments by talking one-to-one in a non-hierarchical manner rather than yelling from a podium. I think this is what the ESF was all about.
I believe every genuine Marxist should adopt this kind of attitude. Take a cause close to your heart and pursue it from a Marxist stand-point and in co-operation with non-Marxists. Political activism does not begin and end with a party, nor is it always about mass demonstrations. It is about people coming together to solve humanity's problems and that requires something other than party organisations.
Ignore the SWP and others and get on with your own work.
Dan
e-mail:
dan@union.org.za
yeah
19.11.2002 13:53
oirish dissenter
we must be doing something right
19.11.2002 14:33
-
Homepage:
http://www.swp.org.uk
Scum!
19.11.2002 15:31
The SWP may as well put on the coppers uniform..the strong responses they get here are a sign that they have been exposed as the assimilating State assests they are
Duncan Hallas
Xposed!
19.11.2002 15:52
Have to speak out about the SWP..ive just left the Socialist Alliance in disgust at what is 'alleged' to have gone on there...its a bloody dosgrace that SWPers have even the nerve to post on IMC given the cheque book fraud they perpetrated in the Socialist Alliance and driving decent socialists like Liz Davies out (along with the sexist whispering campaign many of you will have heard of...)..dont let them do to the real antiwar movement what they have done to the Socialist Alliance (RIP)
andy
Andy
Liz Davies' resignation statement
19.11.2002 16:13
I feel strongly that minimum standards of accountability and probity have not been upheld by some leading officers and members of the executive. Under the circumstances, it is clear to me that I will not be able to discharge effectively my duties to the members.
The premise of the Socialist Alliance was that individuals and groups from differing political backgrounds and perspectives could work together on a common political project. It was always clear that trust among the elements of the Socialist Alliance, and in particular trust among members of the executive and national officers, was essential to this endeavour. As a result of recent events, I feel that trust no longer exists.
I remain committed to contributing towards the development of a viable socialist alternative to New Labour.
>> In other words, the SWP have trashed the Socialist Alliance, bleeding it of support, money and ambition. What a fucking joke!
X
to be fair
19.11.2002 17:08
In fact any SA member will admit the SWP have subsidised the SA, not the other way round.
Whatever else you/we feel about the SWP, it's hardly fair to call people thieves when they ain't.
ageing hack
division in the anti-war thingyo
19.11.2002 17:42
Phats
Not jealousy but pity
19.11.2002 18:49
I believe IMC is an open publishing forum, not a political party. Therefore, it has no agenda in this debate.
I don't think the SWP is central to the anti-war or the anti-capitalist movements. This is a gross exagerration of the SWP's strength and ability and negates the activities of other important groups in political resistance. Moreover, it is a display of arrogance that many have come to expect from the SWP.
To interpret criticism as rooted in resentment of "our growing influence" shows how ignorant and blinkered you are. The inability to listen to what people are saying to you indicates that you have no interest in democratic debate, but only a fixation with maintaining that you are right. It is the mentality of Stalinism.
Dan
swp haters
19.11.2002 18:53
Ben
The SWP are wreckers
19.11.2002 23:41
One: They distribute their placards on demonstrations, which creates the false impression that the demo is an SWP front. This puts off people who distrust the SWP, or who see them as the political equivalent of the Jehovah's Witnesses etc etc.
Two: Cynically, they sell their papers on demos and use this as a springboard to recruiting.
Three: the 'Globalise Resistance' front group (but also the ANL) are examples of the way they cynically manipulate the political climate by trying to capitalise on the media profile of particular issues. Eg with the anti globalisation movement, the fact that groups quite sensibly avoid the media leaves an image vaccuum which the GR front has filled.
Particularly bad is the sticker on a pillar at the university saying 'Save the Planet - Buy Socialist Worker'. It is cynical and manipulative, just like they always are.
The only thing we can do with the SWP is avoid them. They are like the bubonic plague. There is no place whatsover for them anywhere in the real movement.
Steve Booth
e-mail:
grandlaf@lineone.net
Homepage:
http://www.greenanarchist.org.uk/Ga.htm
Er Ben's a Liar!
20.11.2002 09:55
sorry Ben but you talk BULL! I was in and around the SA and we all know that Rob Hoveman (SA exec & SWP hack) was forging the signature of Liz Davies on cheque books as well as other more serious incidents...unless you want me to spill the beans i suggest you cease playing the little Hitler...
Andy
Andy
SWP rob the poor
20.11.2002 10:05
X
Heres The Real Deal
20.11.2002 12:01
Astute observers will know that we have followed closely the affair surrounding the resignation of Liz Davies from the SA leadership over financial abuses, in particular the misuse of the SA chequebook.
We have had more than a few emails from readers about what has become known as Lizgate – most of them containing scurrilous and unfounded accusations which we have, of course, no intention of publishing in a reputable paper such as this.
So when we heard that Liz had made a new statement on the issue this week, we hoped she might finally give us the full details of this sordid affair and put an end to the damaging gossip that is undermining the SA leadership.
Interestingly she does respond to the claims from the executive that she threw a tiff about a minor misdemeanor.
“It is claimed that "Liz's concerns related to problems with a breach of agreedprocedures relating to authorising expenditure and use of the Socialist Alliance chequebook." No: I'm afraid the malpractise involved was much more serious and sustained than that, and that its impropriety had been severely compounded by the response to it of a
number of national officers and Executive members, “ writes Liz.
So it was much more serious than the chequebook liberalism - far from closing this chapter Liz is half-opening a new one here.
But she is a bit of a tease is our Liz:
“There is much more that could be said, and I appreciate that many members continue to feel frustrated by the opacity of the accounts they've been given,” she says. Too right we do Liz!
But it seems that is as far as Comrade Davies is going to go on the issue for now. The ball it seems is in the rather murky court of the SA National Executive.
“I have submitted detailed evidence to the sub-committee conducting the investigation,and like everyone else in the SA, I await its report”.
So do we Liz, so do we.
STOP PRESS: According to the ‘cpgb’s Phil ‘Hamilton’ and Dave Parks anyone who asks any questions about the Lizgate affair is “guilty of crossing class lines” (UK Left Network, Nov 18)
Apparently this duo are not attempting to join us in the world of sectarian satire and genuinely believe that asking for transparency in the Socialist Alliance is an act of outright scabbery and class treachery.
Perhaps before these two particularly humourless sectarians start lecturing people about class they ought to ask themselves what it is that makes ordinary working people sick of politicians who really are on the other side of that class line?
Could it be that they have no respect for liars and cheats who try to cover-up their botched sleazy operations and attempt to silence their critics?
And please, when your organisation’s most high-profile political personality is an aristocratic former paid-staff man of Robert Maxwell, please don’t lecture others about class or morality.
Ygael Gluckstein, Christopher Bambi, Chris Harm-man
Three Amigos
hey ho, what a mess!
20.11.2002 12:34
As far as I can see, the only substantive new accusation against The Party Of Evil is that they're embezzling from the Socialist Alliance. I've already pointed out that neither Liz Davies nor anyone else involved in the SA has claimed this, and that in fact the SWP has subsidised the SA to a considerable extent. But hey, I do realise it's much more fun to believe scandal than not! ;-)
Other than that it's the same old litany; bandwagon-jumping, lack of long-term commitment, obsession with paper-selling and recruiting, insistence on limiting slogans and action so as to maintain 'maximum unity + diversity', lack of internal democracy, etc etc. Maybe true, maybe unfair; either way, hardly news! Surely we've had these arguments many many times before? Surely we could keep em off a news service?
Hey ho. I really do sympathise with Duppy who seemed to me to have the best of intentions. Perhaps I may repeat a couple of wise lines from their original posting:
'Those who want to weaken the antiwar movement are desperate to open up cleavages between the SWP and the rest of us. There are going to be fake pro- and anti- SWP postings used on the web to manipulate a response.'
'Their real target is the Stop the War Coalition, which they are desperate to weaken. Just keep on organizing.'
Well said dude.
ageing hack
Homepage:
http://www.stopwar.org.uk
TENDENTIOUS STUFF
20.11.2002 14:05
WS DERFTY
Mass parties
21.11.2002 18:02
Fly in the ointment
The usual ranting...
29.06.2004 23:18
An SWP activist