surprize surprize,
gush shalom people are (post)zionists too.

This poor "trators" still free and alive, but the palestinian "trators" been tortured and murdered by the palestinian authorities.

Baba: Will you be happy only when Jews are expelled from the Middle East?

Racism is an ancient scourge, and the two groups in conflict need not be of different colors or religions.

When one powerful group begins to see another people as apes, pigs, beasts, roaches or as an inferior race of subhumans, a disaster is in the making.

Any study of racist stereotyping should consider what the dominant group stands to gain. Racism usually begins with economics.

Massacres, the slave trade, and the theft of vast tracts of other people's land, have all been justified by claims of religious, cultural and racial superiority.

Such myths often hide the harsh reality of exploitation and colonization.

So are you saying that these Jewish peace activists campaigning for recognition for a Palestinian state (which is more than any Arab state has been willing to offer in the past) are racists?

Whilst I disagree with Gush Shalom on several points -

They support a 2 State solution (Israel-Palestine side by side), while I believe in a one state solution (a secular democratic state built on non-sectarian lines, i.e Jews, Arabs, Christians, Muslims, atheists etc. will have equal rights).
They support (I think) a very limited right of return for Palestinian refugees to Israel. I believe that the right of return for all Palestinian refugees (who wish to return) is both practically possible, and essential component of any peace process (+ the process of De-Zionisation of Israel).

They are one of the most left wing peace groups in Israel, and I believe we should give them (critical) support.
They have consistently opposed the Occupation arguing that this not Israel's security is the key issue, and unlike the reactionary peace group, PEACE NOW, they have supported the rights of Palestinians to legitimately resist an ilegal occupation, and maintained this support throughout the second intifada.

Dan

you wrote:
" Will you be happy only when Jews are expelled from the Middle East? "

-what do you mean ? Of course, not.
I don't understand your point.
Try to read MY message before you comment.

The fact is that you are denouncing one of the Jewish groups which is campaigning for a Palestinian homeland - something that Jordan, Syria and Egypt have all been against. They might not advocate the abolition of Israel, but then only the jihadis and the reactionary bogus "left" want this bloody and terrifying scenario.

If you can't accept Gush Shalom, then which Jews will you accept?

to Dan,

here is MY comment :

"surprize surprize,
gush shalom people are (post)zionists too.

This poor "traitors" still free and alive, but the palestinian "traitors" been tortured and murdered by the palestinian authorities. "

you should read my comment before you answer. Show me in MY comment above that I "denouncing" someones right ?
My point was: you must to make distinction between Israel criticism and anti-zionism. Uri Avneri,Gush shalom, and other israeli "piss"-activists are still zionists. Because is nothing wrong in the zionism, as many fake-leftoids try to say.

My other point was: Gush shalom's freedom is the best evidence of pluralism and democracy in Israel. While the palestinian "traitors" who wanted a peace with the Israel - been tortured and killed by own people - palestinian authorities.

I mean, what with your Swaziland Solidarity Campaign.

As for the line about "which Jews will you accept?", I think it's a rather tedious way of re-packaging the argument that if you don't favour a two-state solution, you must favour ethnic cleansing against the Jews. This is patent cobblers. While I am by now unsurprised, I think you ought to know better. Just because people are anti-Zionist doesn't make them anti-semitic. The Jews I will accept are the ones who take a principled stand against Israel. Gush Shalom are a fine bunch of people. But I prefer the Mike Rosens, the John Roses and the Haim Bresheeths. Toodloo.

But, "Lenin", the high command of your party, the SWP, has thrown its weight behind Hamas and Islamic Jihad. These organisations were never elected by Palestinians, they certainly don't represent Palestinian Christians (a large proportion of the population) and their form of justice is street executions (similar to the Israeli state's tactics, no less). Moreover, these jihadis want to eradicate Jews. That is their oft-stated aim. By supporting them, you are supporting their aims and are therefore condoning attacks on Israeli civilians, including the working-class and students. You have chosen to side with violent religious fanatics, without any evidence that they represent mainstream Palestinian opinion.

As for the two-state scenario, it has been mooted by many elected senior Palestinian politicians, notably Hanan Ashwari. It's also been the official policy of the elected Palestinian Authority. So, Gush Shalom is merely reflecting this moderate opinion shared across the Israeli/Palestinian divide. Who are the SWP to dismiss this?

It's interesting to note that those who have most to fear from Arafat are Jordan and Syria, which fear the rise of a secular nationalist Palestinian movement. As such, Syria along with Iran have long sought to disrupt both the PLO and the Palestinian Authority. It's almost as if they are in alliance with Israel at maintaining perpetual war and poverty in Palestinian areas.

As for the Swaziland Solidarity Campaign, yes I am busy and we would appreciate any support on offer as a lot is happening.

At the moment, the leader of the opposition is on trial for sedition, the country is facing famine, the government is launching a repressive "anti-terrorist" crackdown, opposition members are having their homes and shops regularly ransacked by the secret police and the new constitution is due in the next couple of days which will affirm the King's absolute power over his subjects. The SSC is helping the opposition party to form a five-year strategic plan and launching their website. We are also putting together a series of briefing papers for lobbying. Anyone is welcome to help out in the struggle for freedom and democracy in Swaziland, even the SWP.

Visit our website at:  http://www.swazis.org.uk

Baba, I don't suppose you are the one who...sent such warm words to Ran HaCohen?


=========================================================
April 1 , 2002
The Auschwitz Logic

Sorry to disappoint some of my readers: terrorists haven't got me yet. Yesterday (Saturday) in Tel-Aviv they were close, but no cigar. A minute ago, my parents called from Haifa saying they just survived another attack. "May they move next to your home", an American reader identifying himself as "Baba" recently wished me. Thank you, dear Baba. Inside every "anti-terrorist" there is always a little terrorist yearning to come out. One can only imagine what you would do with your destructive energies, had you been living in a besieged refugee camp in Palestine rather than in a cosy American domicile.

The High Command of the SWP have not "thrown their weight behind Islamic Jihad and Hamas". The formula of "unconditional critical support" for the Palestinians means supporting all acts of resistance while criticising the methods of resistance. Again, the SWP does not support suicide bombings as a tactic, nor does it support the politics of the two organisations to which you allude.

Incidentally, these two organisations may not have been elected by the Palestinian people, but they seem to have a good deal more support on the ground than Arafat does. Whether the current turn to the left in the Arab world will change these dynamics remains to be seen.

In other words, the SWP does NOT condemn suicide bombing?

What does "supporting all acts of resistance while criticising the methods of resistance" actually mean? Suicide bombing is both an act and method of resistance. Does the SWP condemn it? Does the Social Worker Students Society condemn the suicide attack on students at a cafe on Hebrew University campus last week? See:  http://memorial.huji.ac.il/eng-open.html

Personally, I give my support to the creation of a democratic Palestinian state controlled by workers, not the UN, the US, terrorists or self-interested, corrupt politicians.

As for the SWP's claim that religious fanatics appear to have more support than Arafat, I don't know how anyone watching the television in the UK can assume this. At the moment, there are numerous reports of the jihadis carrying out summary executions of Palestinians perceived to be informants. Given the jihadis' predilection towards murder and contempt for free speech, I don't think it's easy to measure Palestinian opinion.

My guess is that Palestinian civilians are struggling to survive - malnutrition is rife due to the Israeli seige - that in the short-term they would welcome any cessation of hostilities and an end to US-Israeli terrorism. I think the jihadi leaders the SWP (and most other parts of the British left) support simply want to perpetuate the war and they are willing to send angry young people (note that no Hamas or Islamic Jihad leader has put their lives on the line) to their certain deaths.

Funny how it's the Palestinian groups who are 'religious fanatics' and not the Zionist fanatics who are oppressing them. Suicide bombing is the wrong way to resist Israeli aggression. We do not make our support for the Palestinians conditional upon their choosing the right tactics. The support for these Islamist groups is hardly deniable. Prior to Arafat's house arrest, their poll ratings were soaring. Same with the more leftist/maoist groups, who have also been involved in organising suicide bombings. If you want to end suicide bombings, then send your postcard to the right address. Tel Aviv is the source of your problem. As the Israeli father whose speech I posted above says, "if I were born into the ethical and political chaos of the Palestinians, I would become a freedom fighter, and I would attempt to hurt and kill as many on the other side as possible. If I did not do so, I would betray my essence as a free man". (I paraphrase from memory). The problem, he says, is not Palestinian extremists. It is Israel. Were it not for occupation, there wouldn't be Palestinian 'extremists'.

That, roughly summed up, is my view.

Is there an Israeli and/or Palestinian branch of the SWP?

Seen this story yet:

Water Cannons and Charging Horses Can't Suppress the Voice of Israeli Activists

It was a very encouraging day. Yet we had to close it with a moment of silence for Dafna Shpruch, veteran peace activist and Jerusalem Woman in Black, who had been seriously injured in the Hebrew University bombing two weeks ago, and died as we were on the way to the action today.

Gila Svirsky
========================================================

I wondered how long it would be before they killed a Noam Chomsky, an Edward Said, a peace activist.