In short, the SWP is highly centralised, undemocratic, opportunistic, heckling, hierarchical and populist. Their entire campaign is directed by the latest headlines, swinging between anti-fascism, anti-war, pro-jihad, pro-nationalist, etc, etc, and all the time contradicting themselves. They are a sad joke and a blight on the British left.
if the SWP done what it talks so much about then we would not slag them off, the SWP is not an anti-capitalists group its just a means for them to hi-jack another group of people into the SWP paper selling team!!
for fuck sack fuck the paper and get on the streets, less talk more action.
Read the linked page. Pretty much covers it, apart from the wonderful quote from SWP emails circulating just after S11:
"People are looking for explainations for the attacks and devastation in New York this week. Many do not feel that bombing Afghanistan or the Middle East would solve the problem, rather make it worse. There are many people who are very critical of Bush and American imperialism's interventions over the last decade."
All pretty reasonable so far but the email went on, and I quote:
"We should go big on recruiting these people. We are likely to have long conversations with people over this but we could also get some very big sales"
Because certain peoples lives are so devoid of meaning, and they see such futility in any anti-establishment action they take, that they fill up their time having a go at the SWP.
You'll discover this in the petty remarks made, for instance another poster on Indymedia who saw one SWPer eating a McDonalds and tried to imply that this was a fair representation of the entire membership.
Alot of it is out of jealousy. The SWP organise countless events (from the hugely popular Marxism event, hundreds of nationwide Marxist Forums, stop the war events and meetings in preparation for the ESF). The SWP also has a long history of class struggle, being at the centre of anti-fascist, anti-racist campaigns for decades through the ANL. ANL/SWP organised opposition to John Tyndalls meeting in Burnley where only 30 Nazis had the bottle to turn up - what do the assortments of anti-SWPers have to offer?
One commenter on this thread criticised the SWP for trying to sell too many papers rather than take direct action.
How the hell do you think people get to hear about direct action protests in the first place? and then read a thorough anaysis of the event afterwards rather than the biased view from the press?
The last issue of Socialist Worker http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/1811/IX.HTM is full of information about the upcoming Don't Attack Iraq demonstration, and the preparation for the European Social Forum. The SW's circulation has increased substantially since it became available in most newsagents, and this makes it a good outlet for important anti-capitalist events. Otherwise how else are people going to find out about them? They certainly won't read them in the Sun or the News of the World.
What makes me laugh so very much is the following; Just imagine if the anarchists/Spartacist sectarian daydream became reality and the SWP and all its supporters and all the people it mobilises just disappeared. How long would it be before Nick Griffin decided to re-establish a few regular paper sales in the UK. Quickly followed by one in every major city in the UK? And these same anarchist/Spartacists would do…what? Um…howbout exactly nothing like they do right now.
Hmmm....I really never knew just how much, well, paranoia there is amongst leftist groups in this country.Yet all the rhetoric is on cooperative struggle.But then that is the climate of one of the most advanced neo-liberal cultures:technological excess but lacking trust.Maybe we're all here to spy on each other.
At last! people are publicising some real issues, rather than wanking on self-indulgently about wars, strikes and anti- capitalist campaigns. fair play!
Fantastic stuff! This is what I come here for, not all this boring nonsense about stopping wars.
How about doing a whole series of "what's wrong with.." threads, on the SWP, other Trots, anarchists, Greens, syndicalists, feminists, etc etc. Then everyone could use their favourite insults all over again! We might even think of some new ones!
That'll put paid to all this 'broad and diverse movement' bobbins, and we can get back to how the left should be, dozens of tiny groups who all hate each other. Ah, happy days!
As for the person who said "Their [the SWP] entire campaign is directed by the latest headlines, swinging between anti-fascism, anti-war, pro-jihad, pro-nationalist, etc, etc, and all the time contradicting themselves. They are a sad joke and a blight on the British left."
What do you mean they a blight on the British left? This perfectly defines the British left! Name one group that isn't directed by the latest headlines, or swings between anti-fascism, anti-war, pro-jihad, pro-nationalist, etc, etc, and all the time contradicting themselves!!!
To the original poster, I'd advise you to take all this rubbish with a pinch of salt. Some people just have nothing better to do with their time. The main reason seems to be that we are a lot bigger than most other parties on the left. This affords us an influence that makes the sectarians gorge rise in their throats.
For those of you who believe that the SWP is an "undemocratic, hierarchical, centralised, capitalist fascist weapon of the state which eats McDonald's burgers and secretly wants to recruit every single person on the left to its totalitarian apparatus so that it can achieve world domination and crush everyone, yes everyone, even the little people", then I want you to know one thing: You're right. It's absolutely true. We ARE out to get you. And if you stand in our way, we'll KILL all of you. Soon, ve shall rule za vorld!!!
I am in the SWP. Words cannot describe my feelings about the state of the rest of the British Left but let me try… Whether it’s their insane sectarianism towards Labour party members, their failure to differentiate between the terror of Bin Laden and Bush, their apartheid two-state ‘solution’ in the middle-east, their faith that by polishing their ‘programme’ the weerkers will discover the purity and correctness of their central committee and seek out their leadership, AND the fact that most of their National Conferences could take place at the same time as any of their paper sales with every member represented… …I guess I am disgusted and disappointed at the same time :-(
What on Earth are you on about? Sectarian cliques, central committees, national conference, ywo state solutions......
If this is what you see as the only alternative to the SWP you are missing more than half the picture.
There are broad networks of people out in Britain resisting in a spectrum of ways without joining any of these parties, the SWP included: from Earth First to Hunt Sabs, Animal Rights to International Solidarity with Palestine, Squats, Genetic Snowball, Free Parties, Community Groups, Samba Bands, Reclaim the Streets, Critical Mass, Housing Co-Ops, No Platform, Street Theatre, Riots.
It isn't about single issue campaigns. Its about respecting individual's autonomy to decide what they have to offer. It isn't about lacking an understanding of the Problems. Its about realising that none of us are sure and so it is better to find a way of coming while respecting and acknowledging our difference. It isn't about being bigger or smaller than the SWP. It is about making links with people in a manner which is honest and respectful and trying to acheive something rather than running arround in circles. Its about trying to live life to the full while you try to overthrow the state (I know that I'll always be alienated under capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I should resign myself to martydom, I want to have fun).
Is the alternative good enough. No so join us and make it better.
If you've got a problem with people's opinions here, then fuck off back to your paper-selling. You've got the cash and resources to enable everyone to hear you, many others don't but would rather eat dog vomit than be caught up in your nonsense. So keep to your sad little meetings and silly sloganeering, stop interfering in other groups and leave the rest of us alone. And don't post this boring shit again!
What are you doing on this thread if it’s so boring? You absolute hypocrite. When people ask you what you are politically what do you say? Do you tell them the truth and say “I am an….anti-SWPer!” You can proudly squeel I am involved in anything that the SWP is not involved in! I am a pure sectarian! I am really democratic since I am not subject to the discipline of any organisation! I just hop around from campaign to campaign as takes my fancy! I might turn up to the odd demo here and there but that’s all. I might even come to the next mass anti-war demo and march with 100,000 people deluded by the SWP into attending and argue with them about the ‘enemy’ (the SWP). But as far as the organisation for this demo goes, why worry?…we’ve got the SWP for that. You hypocrite.
la verdad que los verdaderos sectarios son aquellos que acusan a todas las organizaciones que pueden crecer, y oponerse asi con mayor fuerza al sistema actuial. Estos radicales exaservados que acusan al swp de traicion me parecen unos ijmbeciles, pareciera ser que trabajaran apra la derecha.
There's a lot of bitter people round here, any chance of a constructive debate which just might aid the development of a movement for a rationally co-ordinated world? Or should I concentrate on less grandiose escapes which are at least real to me.
Comments
Hide the following 22 comments
Reasons
07.08.2002 14:42
Ex-SWP, member for 3 years
coz go you do is talk
07.08.2002 15:03
for fuck sack fuck the paper and get on the streets, less talk more action.
green supporter
read this
07.08.2002 15:08
"People are looking for explainations for the attacks and devastation in New York this week. Many do not feel that bombing Afghanistan or the Middle East would solve the problem, rather make it worse. There are many people who are very critical of Bush and American imperialism's interventions over the last decade."
All pretty reasonable so far but the email went on, and I quote:
"We should go big on recruiting these people. We are likely to have long conversations with people over this but we could also get some very big sales"
Is that a good enough reason to slag them off?
eyes
Homepage:
http://www.schnews.org.uk/monopresist/index.htm
!
07.08.2002 15:11
!
SWP
07.08.2002 15:15
You'll discover this in the petty remarks made, for instance another poster on Indymedia who saw one SWPer eating a McDonalds and tried to imply that this was a fair representation of the entire membership.
Alot of it is out of jealousy. The SWP organise countless events (from the hugely popular Marxism event, hundreds of nationwide Marxist Forums, stop the war events and meetings in preparation for the ESF). The SWP also has a long history of class struggle, being at the centre of anti-fascist, anti-racist campaigns for decades through the ANL. ANL/SWP organised opposition to John Tyndalls meeting in Burnley where only 30 Nazis had the bottle to turn up - what do the assortments of anti-SWPers have to offer?
Marxist_Mike
SWP Sucks
07.08.2002 15:24
Anti-Capitalist
Homepage:
http://www.infoshop.org/texts/iso.html
Contradictions and paradoxes
07.08.2002 15:33
How the hell do you think people get to hear about direct action protests in the first place? and then read a thorough anaysis of the event afterwards rather than the biased view from the press?
The last issue of Socialist Worker
So stop talking out of your arses!
Marxist_Mike
Mark Steel
07.08.2002 15:40
Marxist_Mike
And...
07.08.2002 15:53
Just imagine if the anarchists/Spartacist sectarian daydream became reality and the SWP and all its supporters and all the people it mobilises just disappeared. How long would it be before Nick Griffin decided to re-establish a few regular paper sales in the UK. Quickly followed by one in every major city in the UK? And these same anarchist/Spartacists would do…what? Um…howbout exactly nothing like they do right now.
SWP member and proud
When theres hate theres no debate
07.08.2002 15:58
Castiglione
About time!
07.08.2002 16:41
Jay-B
yes! yes! more of this please!
07.08.2002 16:46
How about doing a whole series of "what's wrong with.." threads, on the SWP, other Trots, anarchists, Greens, syndicalists, feminists, etc etc. Then everyone could use their favourite insults all over again! We might even think of some new ones!
That'll put paid to all this 'broad and diverse movement' bobbins, and we can get back to how the left should be, dozens of tiny groups who all hate each other. Ah, happy days!
a nonny mouse
Grrrr
07.08.2002 17:38
What do you mean they a blight on the British left? This perfectly defines the British left! Name one group that isn't directed by the latest headlines, or swings between anti-fascism, anti-war, pro-jihad, pro-nationalist, etc, etc, and all the time contradicting themselves!!!
Marxist_Mike
We're coming to get you...
07.08.2002 21:17
For those of you who believe that the SWP is an "undemocratic, hierarchical, centralised, capitalist fascist weapon of the state which eats McDonald's burgers and secretly wants to recruit every single person on the left to its totalitarian apparatus so that it can achieve world domination and crush everyone, yes everyone, even the little people", then I want you to know one thing: You're right. It's absolutely true. We ARE out to get you. And if you stand in our way, we'll KILL all of you. Soon, ve shall rule za vorld!!!
lenin
e-mail:
lenin138@yahoo.co.uk
because the SWP is so dogmatic
07.08.2002 21:49
MI5
Homepage:
http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nbb6.cgi?_KISSINGER_HENRY_A
TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER
07.08.2002 23:05
a question and answers service, an online agony aunt system?
NO - ITS A FUCKING NEWS SERVICE!!
Take your stupid questions to a thread about the SWP
DONT CLUTTER THE NEWSWIRE with irelevent non-news items.
please
ben
Original poster
08.08.2002 08:15
Whether it’s their insane sectarianism towards Labour party members,
their failure to differentiate between the terror of Bin Laden and Bush,
their apartheid two-state ‘solution’ in the middle-east,
their faith that by polishing their ‘programme’ the weerkers will discover the purity and correctness of their central committee and seek out their leadership,
AND the fact that most of their National Conferences could take place at the same time as any of their paper sales with every member represented…
…I guess I am disgusted and disappointed at the same time :-(
Original poster
Ground control to original poster
08.08.2002 12:49
If this is what you see as the only alternative to the SWP you are missing more than half the picture.
There are broad networks of people out in Britain resisting in a spectrum of ways without joining any of these parties, the SWP included: from Earth First to Hunt Sabs, Animal Rights to International Solidarity with Palestine, Squats, Genetic Snowball, Free Parties, Community Groups, Samba Bands, Reclaim the Streets, Critical Mass, Housing Co-Ops, No Platform, Street Theatre, Riots.
It isn't about single issue campaigns. Its about respecting individual's autonomy to decide what they have to offer. It isn't about lacking an understanding of the Problems. Its about realising that none of us are sure and so it is better to find a way of coming while respecting and acknowledging our difference. It isn't about being bigger or smaller than the SWP. It is about making links with people in a manner which is honest and respectful and trying to acheive something rather than running arround in circles. Its about trying to live life to the full while you try to overthrow the state (I know that I'll always be alienated under capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I should resign myself to martydom, I want to have fun).
Is the alternative good enough. No so join us and make it better.
Hmmm
Dear SWP
08.08.2002 18:55
Antidote
Dear voice at the back of the hall
09.08.2002 09:03
SWP member
Tanta boludez es muy estupida
27.02.2004 16:42
Leonidas
Homepage:
http://www.radiomundoreal.fm
Mmmm...
23.06.2004 16:36
Tend the geese