Apparently Selfridges say sales for the settlement products have shot up recently, probably due to zionists buying more to support Israel. So when these demonstrations appear in the Jewish chronicle, there a great advert for Selfridges.

Firstly, the original article you are referring to is a press release which we sent to the mainstream media. It was therefore not meant to be a serious critique of the action and was aimed at keeping pressure on Selfridges.

However as a personal opinion, I feel that whilst it was by no means a perfect action, these criticisms are harsh.

Firstly I was in the store from around 11 until 3 (despite being ejected on around four occasions, I kept managing to return). During this time, apart from the actions that I was part of, I also consistently saw security and protesters running around. There were several occasions when we saw security running towards us, when we thought we had been spotted, when in fact they charged straight past us to deal with other groups of activists. When actions took place, they were vocal and visual - 1000s of leaflets both handed out and left in strategic places inside the store (Selfridges - you may be finding these leaflets for months!).

Admittedly I didn't see much of the protest outside as each time I got thrown out I attempted to re-enter the store. However I was around at the height of the action when many of the doors were shut up and customers were being shuffled through one door. This action both embarrassed Selfridges and caused economic damage (if nothing else, all the extra security would have cost a fair amount.). They don't like it and are taking it seriously (e.g. sending two of their private security team to the public meeting).

With regards to banners and prop. Around two thousand leaflets were handed out and we did have two banners (although one was stolen by private security). However criticisms like this always annoy me. If you're going to a protest, take some responsibility for making it work, for getting the message across. Actions such as this one, inevitably end up being organised by small groups who are supposed to magic everything out of thin air. I don't believe you should attend protests and expect to have everything organised for you. What do you want to achieve from the action? What message do you want to get across? Make your own banners, devise your own actions - this is what this sort of protest is supposed to be about.

This action was devised out of a series of affinity group actions which have been taking place over several months. On one occasion six of us put around £250 of wine through three of the tills simultaneously, refused to pay, handed out leaflets, refused to leave the shop until private security dragged us out and created an embarrassing scene inside the food hall for around half an hour. To me the important part of this kind of protest isn't necessarily to inconvenience Selfridges, but to cause them embarrassment, to make them feel uncomfortable. Putting stuff through the till and then leaving doesn't do this with the same impact.

Lastly, we have no idea what Selfridges' intentions are regarding these goods - they may be assessing whether it is worth being subject to these kinds of protests for the goods that they stock. However and most importantly, this is not the end of the campaign, this is the beginning. We will consistently be going back into the store and doing actions until the goods are removed. Hopefully the people who came on Saturday have seen how easy it is to do effective actions against the store and will go and organise their own affinity group actions. We would be niave if we believed that one largish demo would get the goods off the shelves. However I believe the combination of large protests and regular affinity group actions will achieve this.

I think that DAAWN talked a good battle and failed to produce the goods. I didn't see them 'storming' or 'Occupying' Selfridges, from the outside it looked like a couple of foolish school girls with nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon.

I fully support the Palestinian cause, but what DAAWN are trying to do doesn't seem to be working. Can we look at getting the UK government to give companies legislation against the products? Key question, will stopping a bag of pretzels and a bottle of wine from being sold stop Israel? No it bloody won't. It will probably have more impact on Palestinian people, not people over here but people who probably rely on the income from these products.

This is a mine field and a whole load of politics. Challenge the people who can do something about the Middle East situation, instead of poxy shops. I will gladly be on the front line protesting outside any government body, to get the current legislation changed.

I see that some stores still sell the products that have not been targeted by DAAWN, such as Harrods. Is that because it is owned by Mr Fayad? Or will you also start protesting at the suppliers / importers of these products & other stores. I believe that there is no definitive guide relating to the products Selfridges & Harrods sell, it is purely a moral one. DEFRA have commented on the possible labelling of fresh produce, pretzels, wine & makeup don't fall into that category. So where is your argument?

At the moment there seems to be the mentality of rent a mob and people joining in this demo who have nothing to do with the situation. DAAWN do me a favour and BUT-OUT or at least target the right people like the DTI, Foreign Office, DEFRA, and EU.

Has anyone asked the companies selling the products what they have done about the labelling issue? I believe that Harrods have sticky labels on the products stating the town of origin. DAAWN state that they want the products removed from sale, what is it to be. Is is a labelling issue or is it a selling issue? Do they know or understand the problem or is this just something for them to do when they are not at college.

Peace & Harmony

>I didn't see them 'storming' or 'Occupying' Selfridges,
>from the outside it looked like a couple of foolish school
>girls with nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon.

Leaving aside your blatant and disgusting ageism and sexism I had a few thoughts about your post. Firstly there were a couple of mass pushes into the store and many people entered at various times during the day: some being quickly removed, others remaining inside stickering and leaving leaflets for hours.

>I fully support the Palestinian cause, but what DAAWN are
>trying to do doesn't seem to be working. ...Challenge the
>people who can do something about the Middle East
>situation, instead of poxy shops. I will gladly be on the
>front line protesting outside any government body, to get
>the current legislation changed.

Your faith in Government is naive. There is a reason for the problems in the Middle East. These problems are about money and profit. The capitalists in Israel bought off the militant Israeli working class by giving them a higher standard of living than the Palestinians, with whom they once lived in relative harmony. This had the effect of largely diverting the class war in Israel/Palestine to a quasi-national war hurting everyone in the region. The continuing war is of great benefit to the government of this country, which is happy to sell arms to Israel.

The government ignores protest, demonstrations and petitions. Only by direct action can we change society. As DAAWN are a small group, we are initially targeting our efforts at a single corporation, with one main retail outlet in order to maximise our effectiveness. This is a similar tactic to that used by SHAC against Huntingdon Life Sciences.

Profits from these products is being used to fund settlement expansion. Reducing the flow will slow, in however small a way, the expansion of these settlements which exacerbate the conflict, causing more civilian deaths on both sides.

>At the moment there seems to be the mentality of rent a
>mob and people joining in this demo who have nothing to do
>with the situation.

The Israeli and Palestinian ruling classes are setting their own people against each other in a bloody neo-war, trying to stop the working class blaming the real enemy: them. Workers' resistance (in this case the Intifada) in one area is important to all workers worldwide - us included.

No borders, no nations, stop the occupation!

Well done for the demo, it's good people are taking action, instead of just sitting around talking and criticising (easiest thing to do).

I heard DAAWN were expecting 100. The radio reported 300 came, it was also mentioned on the evening standard website. Not bad for a demo outside a store!

DEFRA recently introduced guidelines (you can find their letter at  http://www.defra.gov.uk/hort/hmi/common/territories.pdf) stating that failing to label goods produced in the OT as such 'may be misleading'. Unfortunately this only applies to fresh produce. However, I suggest you write to your local supermarket manager, asking him or her what their policy is on Israeli goods, and on goods from the OT. Specifically, ask how they are ensuring they do not 'mislead' you by labelling fresh produce from the OT as 'Product of Israel'. Try and make them squirm, this makes it more awkward to stock any Israeli produce at all.

I'm not proposing this as an alternative to direct action, and huge respect to DAAWN for the Selfridges job.. but, to 'another DAAWNer' above - your reaction to the suggestion that state agencies may prove useful is a little knee-jerk. The state may be the ultimate cause of the problem, and in an ideal world, the state might not exist - but this ain't it! If DEFRA, the DTI or the FCO can put any pressure at all on Israel, it's worth it, isn't it? Writing a few letters doesn't mean I won't be taking direct action too. If ideological purity of tactics means the Palestinian cause loses out, then stick it!

To DAAWNer, please accept that there was no criticism of DAAWN implied in my article. I said I was disappointed! What I meant by that was that despite you calling for people to support and take part in this action, the numbers in attendance were depressingly small. That is a criticism of those that didn't bother to come, not of the organisers.

My criticism of the banner still stands - I don't know whether DAAWN have a connection with Globalize Resistance, but I personally equate Globalize Resistance with SWP and the fact that protest marches sometimes look for all the world like they've been "sponsored" by the SWP. I don't see how a 'Globalize Resistance' banner gets any useful message out to Oxford Street shoppers, in the same way that I don't see how SWP advertising on Anti-War banners can help convert Middle England, the Metro reader, and the shop assistant to the cause - I would suggest it does the opposite.

I feel your criticism of my own actions also undermines your argument. I caused the store inconvenience and embarrasment in my own way. I am not a particularly physically strong person and I abhor violence, so I take care not to put myself in too much danger of being assaulted by a Neanderthal security guard in the same way that I avoid direct confrontation with Police on demonstrations. I took my action as far as I could under my own guidelines and preferences - please don't criticise that - I did something!

I also agree that continued affinity actions will help keep the pressure on, and I am devising leaflets with ideas for actions that I will be distributing myself in order to persuade others to take action.

While not condoning Thinker's inappropriate language, I must agree that while some things obviously went on out of my sight that afternoon, my overall experience that afternoon in wandering round the shop for several hours was that generally it was business as usual and any actions were sporadic and small-scale. Again, this is not a criticism of the organisers, but it is a challenge of the description of "Chaos" and an expression of disappointment that not more people came and joined in.

I don't however agree with Thinker's dismissal of this sort of action. Personally, I have at times written letters to Government, as well as taken direct action where I feel I can. I believe that targetting one major outlet sends out a message to others and can be quite effective. Thinker seems to have missed the point of the 'anti-globalist' movement, that Government no longer controls much at all and is at the behest of corporations and commerce. So, targetting commerce seems a much more direct way of influencing policy. I was involved in the Ilisu Dam Campaign where major issues of political treatment of Kurds in Turkey were clearly influenced by a sustained embarrasment campaign against the Balfour Beatty conglomerate. I even think it's possible that this campaign might have had some tiny part to play in the very recent announcement of huge legal changes in Turkey!

I totally agree with tr that writing to Government can sometimes help - I believe all ways are good - what we all have to believe is that a change of consciousness is necessary, and there are many ways to be a part of this.

Is Selfriges unionised? If so may be it would be worthwhle opening a dialouge with that union to put pressure on the management to withdraw products that are made in Israel/Palestine, and if they don't play ball, threaten industrial action.

The way forward for the anti-war/anti-Israeli occupation protest is for more militant disruptive actions, otherwise the goverment will not give a damn about us.

"Peace and Harmony" signs off the 'thinker', but the post itself betrays an attitude far from this ideal, with it's 'from the outside it looked like a couple of foolish school girls with nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon.' and the final 'is this just something for them to do while not at college'.

1) young people at school or college may be idealistic and unburdoned by years of defeat and cynicism, so what's your problem, jeleousy?

2) 'with nothing better to do'? - what like shopping on oxford street with the rest of the fashion conscious?

3) 'from outside it looked like....' - well the view from inside was different with the teams of security running around at top speed causing disruption right left and centre. shoppers all over the ground floor saw people being jumped on, assaulted and dragged out for unfurling a flag, handing out flyers or trying to explain what the protest outside was about.

Quote:
"there seems to be the mentality of rent a mob and people joining in this demo who have nothing to do with the situation. DAAWN do me a favour and BUT-OUT"

4) oh here we go, it's the "rent a mob" angle again... it wasn't just 'young' school/college kids who were there as you must know, but a mix of ages, backgrounds and ethnic origins. A good deal of the people there have been involved in these campaigns over a long time period, and indeed many have also been involved campaigning on the ground in and around the disputed territories themselves - so please don't come the 'nothing to do with the situation' line. As for asking people to 'but-out', well 'but-out' of what? have you oh 'thinker' got the full monopoly rights on this campaign/issue?


Anyway enough of that; here's a couple of guardian articles ( http://www.guardian.co.uk) on labelling of such goods and selfridges original withdrawel of the products that were being protested:

------------------

Israel stung by imports ruling
By Suzanne Goldenberg in Jerusalem
Guardian july 6th 2002

British supermarkets have been told that they must clearly identify produce on sale from the illegal Jewish settlements of the West Bank and Gaza.

The Dept or Envt Food and Rural Affairs said yesterday that it told importers ast week that cherry tomatoes, baby potatoes, avocadoes, fruit juice and flowers grown in the illegal outposts could no longer be sold under the "produce of Israel" label. "Supermarket customers over here raised questions about produce with supermarkets, who raised it with us," it said.

"Produce from these occupied territories ought not to be labelled 'Produce of Israel' because the terrritories are not recognised as part of Israel."

The directive is largely symbolic. The value of expors from the settlements to then whole of the EU amounts to Euros 20m (£13m).

Nevertheless, the decision has dismayed the Israeli authorities, because it comes at a time on increasing sensitivity about Israeli's isolation in the international community.

As far as Israel is concerned, the Palestinian uprising is a war of wordsas much as of weapons, and there is deep unease about the boycott of Israeli academics and goods from Israel proper by Palestinian solidarity campaigners in Britain.

The foreign minister said Israel was still considering its response. But the newspaper Ha'aretz reported that embassy officials were stunned by the directive and had complained that it was unfair and discriminatory.

Israeli peace activists, who have urged their fellow citizens to boycott settlement produce, welcomed the directive. "This is a very important step because this, in fact, is the crux of the issue," said Adam Keller, of Gush Shalom.

"The issue is very simple: are these territories inside Israel, or are they not part of Israel?"

The EU has stiffened its rules of origin, which means oods from the settlements will be subject to customs duty, unlike exports from Israel proper.

-----------------

Selfridges bans sale of goods from occupied territories
Nicholas Watt - Guardian - Saturday December 22, 2001

Selfridges yesterday became the first big British department store to withdraw from sale goods which are produced in the occupied territories of the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

Bowing to pressure from Palestinian groups, the central London store announced that it would no longer sell a range of beauty and food products which are incorrectly marked as Israeli goods. The action by Selfridges came after Palestinian groups picketed the Oxford Street store last Saturday.

Protesters handed out leaflets pointing out that placing a "Made in Israel" label on products from the West Bank, the Golan Heights and the Gaza Strip breaches EU excise and customs regulations. The international community has never recognised Israel's annexation of the territories in 1967 and 1973.

A Selfridges spokeswoman said last night that it had withdrawn the goods to encourage the Palestinian groups to end their protest, adding that the store was not making a political point. Insisting that it was lawful to sell the products, the store said:

"Selfridges has taken the decision to withdraw the four products during the Christmas season in order to minimise disruption to our customers caused by leafleting and picketing outside our store. This decision will be reviewed in the new year."

The products which have been withdrawn are Achva Halva sesame seed sweets and Beigal and Beigal pretzels, made in the Barkan Industrial Zone on the West Bank; Ahava toiletries, made in Mitspe Shalem on the West Bank; and Yarden Wines from Katzrin on the Golan Heights. The West Bank was annexed by Israel in 1967, while the Golan Heights were annexed in 1967 and 1973.

The move will focus attention on the Palestinian campaign to boycott goods from the occupied territories which are marked as Israeli. The European commission is expected to register its anger with Israel over the contentious goods by ending low tariffs for such products.

Rikki - firstly sorry if my original criticism of your action sounded harsh, it wasn't intended to be. I have complete respect for anyone who bothered to enter the store and take action in anyway they felt appropriate and is a very brave thing to do especially if you were on your own! I added it in to make people aware of other ways that they could do such actions in a way that (in my personal opinion) I think is more effective. This is not intended to undermine what you did, but comes out of my belief that direct action should be confrontational (and being physically strong doesn't negatge being confrontational).

With regards GR. There is no connection between GR and DAAWN other than we invited as many different groups to sponsor the action in order to try to get the largest number of people possible. No-one owns a demo. If GR want to turn up with their banner that doesn't add anything useful to the protest, then so be it. As I said before, it is all our responsibilities to ensure that relevant banners etc. are visible at all demos. By the way, have you ever tried persuading someone at a demo to hold a banner - strangely it seems to be a very difficult job!

To Thinker - so you'd be willing to be in the front line outside any government body? What does this mean, that you'd be right in front of the pen at Downing Street? I'm sure holding endless pickets outside empty buildings leaves governments quaking! One of the ideas about this kind of action, is take the focus away from a government who does not listen to us and who criminalises us at every turn.

Using terms such as "rent a mob" is insulting (as are many of the other issues that you raise). Who are you to say who is rent a mob? How do you know the people who were there hadn't thought clearly about the issues and what we were doing (in terms of my views - they were pretty accurately explained by the other DAAWNer who posted). Using terms such as these is dangerous and creates the kind of divisions that the government and media try to create in our movement.

As I said in my last post, this is the beginning of a campaign. Yes, the focus is on Selfridges at the moment. We are a small group and can be more effective if we target one store at a time.

It is also very difficult to do effective solidarity direct action about the situation in Palestine - the only other attempted DA has led to two people being charged with violent disorder for attempting a banner drop.

If you think other kinds of protest are better, then organise them. Ultimately as many people taking action as often as possible is a good thing, but requires a bit more of an effort than posting on a website.

carp carp criticise criticise....

if only you'd...
no-one did this, someone did that...
the way forward for you lot is....
the problem is...

you wear leather shoes (travel in cars, eat GM food, go to college, go to some actions 'cos you care etc etc)(therefore you're an idealist waster who should grow-up and stop trying to change the world because I'm wise and sit on my arse carping on and on and on on Indymedia etc......)

blah blah

Saw this on Urban 75 Bulletin Board on the subject of wine from Israel. Whoever 3Stripe is he knows his stuff, possibly Oz Clarke, should that be with an E'. Sorry student layabouts have probably already had them this weekend.

'here is a list of good Israeli wines if you are interested, they are quite good

Semi Dry White Wines Carmel Mizrachi, Emerald Riesling, Private Collection, 2000
Sauvignon Blanc-Chardonnay Carmel Mizrachi, Chardonnay-Sauvignon Blanc, Private Collection, 2000
Sauvignon Blanc Carmel Mizrachi, Sauvignon Blanc, Private Collection, 2000
Chardonnay Barkan, Chardonnay, Reserve, 1999
Merlot Golan Heights Winery, Merlot, Yarden, 1998
Cabernet-Merlot Carmel Mizrachi, Cabernet-Merlot, Private Collection, 1999
Cabernet Sauvignon Golan Heights Winery, Cabernet Sauvignon, Yarden, 1997

The 1997 was a good year

Folks,

God some people are extremely touchy on occassions. Comments that I am sexist & all the rest have brought me to my knees. I have now reflected fully on my initial comments as has the DAWWner.... changing her comments in relation to Rikki's posting.

Direct Action can work but have you tried finding out what their intentions are in relation to the products. There are guidelines / legislation which I believe the companies involved will be going along with.

You didn't say if your protest is to stop the products being sold or is it the labelling issue. If the government stands up and gets counted by issuing guidelines regarding the labelling, will you see that as a 'Victory'. Surely the retailers are attempting to tackle this issue as well as they surely don't want continued protests.

I feel that you do have a bit to learn in relation to campaigns. I have already written to the various organisations and Selfridges asking what their stance on the issue. Perhaps you should do the same......

Have you thought about targeting the importers as if they can't supply stores with it they can't sell it? Just a thought..... I am not into having a slagging match as that will get us nowhere.

The question of stink bombs not being as good as they used to be, I agree with you. All I will say is please don't start a campaign against stink bomb manufacturers or shops selling them.

Love & Peace.....

P.S: Please don't waste your time & mine trying to slag me off as it's all a game........