IMC in need for major changes.

this is what i was told imc is for

27.07.2002 09:40

imc is a place to post NEWS stories.

UN

Are you still here? why?

27.07.2002 09:57

What indymedia really needs is for people to follow simple upload instructions about clicking the publish button once only.

double-trouble

there are no "those on the desk" at IMC, it is run by volunteers who do the best they can. You think you can do better? well then come along to some meetings, make some concrete proposals for how things can be improved, or fuck off and stop your whinging

jmayler

indymedia changed my life

27.07.2002 11:07

I have to strongly disagree that indymedia is a failed experiment. Its a fantastic resources for people like me searching for deeper truths behind the standard media coverage, trying to educate myself and get involved. I can honestly say indymedia has changed my life for the better.

We are fortunate that journalism in the UK still retains a principled edge and is freer of corporate and government influence than, for instance, the US. However, its time consuming trying to pick the interesting stories (those that hint at what's really going on) from the chaff.

The concentration of enlightening main stream media articles coupled with additional street journalism from indymedia reporters (especially during protests) presented on this site is invaluable and uplifting.

Agreed, there are a few nutters posting ridiculous stories here but the average quality remains very high.

As "UN" points out, I don't think it was indymedia's intention to provide a platform for revolutionary discussion. Any discussion forums open to worldwide participation would surely be chaotic to the point of self-distruction.

Mike

Mike
mail e-mail: vvmikeukvv@netscape.net

D I Y

27.07.2002 12:48

Stop yer fuckin whingeing and do something about it or piss off!

I really hate that "something ought to be done about it" attitude.

Again.

bored revolutionist
mail e-mail: bored at bored dot bored
Homepage: http://boring dot net

Thankyou

27.07.2002 12:49

I can't believe this is someone who cares about IMC or they wouldn't have written this pathetic sentence into the NEWSwire twice and then moaned about spam.

They would have contacted the IMC contact and raised there concerns. They would have come up with constructive methods of how to prevent spam and right wingers. They would have volunteered themselves to the network to look out for such postings as this one.

They would have left their e-mail as they were so brave to 'speak out'. They would have provided examples of what good contribution they have made and considered joining features list to put forward proposals for middle column stories. They would have known that IMC doesn't have an office let alone a desk. Why didn't they go to the e-mail, because they want to damage IMC.

Andy

politics is action indeed

27.07.2002 13:35

so my dear 'someone-who-decided-to-speak-out' tell us what should we consider as spam then? conspiracy theories? debates? non-uk news? cartoons?

remember that this is an OPEN-POSTING site. i think it's _the_ powerful aspect of indy that we do hide postings only in extreme cases. indymedia is revolutionary as a media because there is NO central 'editorial comittee' but the differing opinions and politics of the anticapitalist movement are expressed by the different contributors. the only criteria for removal from the wire are these, snip from the editorial guidelines on

http://uk.indymedia.org/censor.php3 :
-discrimination
-advertising
-infactual
-repeated posting
all of the above reasons except repeated posting are obviously always debatable... and the collective maintaining this wire has until now always tried to err on the side of not-removing.

if you take issue with specific articles then mail your comments to the features list where the people hang out who hide postings, and where middle column stories are proposed. it's a publicly archived list so you can check out how people go about things by reading the archive. everybody (and that means YOU) can be part of this mailing list. just subscribe, engage and you'll get the password very soon when people see that your contributions are helping out. the features list is on

http://lists.indymedia.org/listinfo/imc-uk-features

politics is action indeed so get off your armchair mate.

andi
mail e-mail: andi@syndicate.org.uk

NOT only in extreme cases

27.07.2002 15:23

In my rather extensive experience, Indy is only to willing remove posts because it doesn't believe in what they are saying. I can personally guarantee that there are a number of articles which are not disciminatory in any way, nor advertising anything and have only been posted once.
This leaves infactual as a catch-all for anything which doesn't fit into a hegemonus world view of what is or is not fact - and whose hegemonous view? -
Let's try a couple of facts:
1) Bin Laden is an evil terrorist mastermind who singlehandedly organised the 9-11 attacks and in consequence the US was forced to attack Afghanistan
Factual? Any other version- infactual? Apparently not
2) Bob Marley smoked such vast quantities of ganja that DNA replication of brain and lung cells was disrupted resulting in virulent fatal cancer.
Factual? Any other version – infactual? Apparently so.
It’s long since ceased to surprise me that such selectively exercised patching of our cage of perceived reality is carried out by the volunteer at the desk – but why? still eludes me
Why try to limit knowledge, ideas and opinions, why try to eliminate thoughts , facts, imaginings, so that the interested Indy user , contributor, activist is denied information to compare with past, present and possible future experience.
Or is Indy’s role to act as the more liberal zookeeper. To create bigger and more airy cages to provide an illusion of freedom. Any little attempt to rattle at the bars of our received and socialised perception of what’s real and what isn’t, of what’s fact and what isn’t, has to be immediately to be condemned to the hidden pit, with a sniff of superior assuredness that everythings good with the world (even though we know it very deeply isn’t) and a mutter of ‘ridiculous’
Kind of 'thought police' conception

dh

spectrum of views...

27.07.2002 16:44

right - so now we have dh saying that we're hiding too often and someone-who-decided-to-speak-out saying we should get rid of spam. dh says we're carrying out "selectively exercised patching of our cage of perceived reality" (btw it's not just ONE 'volunteer at the desk', thanks but no thanks for the snippiness), and someone-who-decided-to-speak-out thinks we "do not have a political agenda" (thanks but no thanks, too). the statements of these two nicely illustrate the spectrum of views on how imcuk should handle the hiding of stories (and show as well the bandwidth of political opinions expressed in this wire). seems to me the current hiding policy isn't too stupid then. btw why don't you two start to engage in coming to meetings or contribute to the maintenance work on the features list?

andi
mail e-mail: andi@syndicate.org.uk

The trend is worring

27.07.2002 18:37

IMC-UK does remove certain articles, two cases I seen are related to the so-called "white rights" movements, really a front for white supermercism. Whilst such articles are offensive, censoring them is the thin end of the wedge, and further along the line articles that promote anarchism, or anti-Zionist articles for example, may in turn be censored. This is becoming more the case on IMCs Germany and Austria, where articles that contradict certain views are censored, and the IMC then ceases to be an "independent" source of information, and becomes really just the same as regular media.

IMCs should be left uncensored, and any discrimatory articles posted should be intellengently criticised, as this would then serve to undermine the discrimatory message, and the people who post them will realise that posting such stuff on Indymedia will only serve to damage their credibility, and they should then give up, or even better, change their views and join us!

Thomas J

What is indymedia for?

27.07.2002 19:48

Thomas J and DH seem to miss the point: Indymedia only serves its purpose as a newswire if it actually provides news. Indymedia was not set up so that white surpremicists could spew their racist filth all over another open posting system. Nor was it set up to serve as a discussion forum for every topic under the sun. Indymedia has neither the server space nor the bandwidth, nor do its readers have the patience for that. Indymedia is a newswire!
Those who would like to read more conspiracy theories, or engage in ideological discussions, are advised to seek the appropriate websites and message boards. Indymedia is not the place for that.

jjf

what's news

27.07.2002 20:53

You and people like you talk tosh in my book, jif.
What's news - information as I understand it and in the context of this line you can't just confine that to telling what has happened, what is happening, what will happen next.
You need context, background, opinion, debate. The users of and contributors are a pretty diverse bunch, and if you post 'you must go to this anti-tree demo next week at 1pm etc', I might reasonably reply 'why the fuck should I?'
What you're contending might work for say 'the anarchist workers action group' board where the users and posters may be expected to already possess similar belief systems, aims and objectives.
But this is open publishing, and many different types are putting their stuff in here. If people remain open minded then this is beneficial, because it allows for cross fertilisation of all the different strands.
What jif is saying in reality, as is volunteer Mike, is 'fuck off all those who challenge my perception of reality!"

dh

What is news?

27.07.2002 21:04

Jif, while IndyMedia is not the place for mere discussions, (there are many other sites that do this, most notably Urban75 see link below), how do you define "news"? To some, infomation about the Illumanti/Freemasons/etc conspiring to enslave the world would be considered newsworthy to some, to others not. Whilst I do not argree with what some people have to say on Indymedia, I respect their right to say it, although I will criticise anything that's offensive. You can't just remove articles just because it doesn't fit your definition of "news", this would lead to a whole set of complications, and ultimately a form of censorship, which isn't what Indymedia should be about.

Thomas J
Homepage: http://www.urban75.net

jeez, Thomas J

27.07.2002 21:33

I feel a unity. They say great minds think alike. Obviously also simultaneously.
A further question.
What's jif doing here anyway?
Does he think his opinion news?
Whilst no-one else's is?

dh

Suggestion

27.07.2002 23:00

DH and Thomas J: If you are serious about improving indymedia UK please take this discussion to the IMC UK process list. Engage with Indymedia UK in a constructive way, rather than spouting this schoolkid nonsense about free speech to massage your own ego. I challenge you to engage with those who spend their days and nights working on Indymedia because I believe you do not really know what you are talking about and would benefit from understanding how indymedia works from the inside. I think you will find it is very different from the conspiracy theories you bandy about in the comments section of the newswire.

jjf

OK jjf, why don't YOU do the same

28.07.2002 11:12

I'm sure the'll be more than happy to hear about what you think is and isn't news. If anybody is spouting "schoolkid nonsense", and massaging his/her ego, its YOU. Like my new friend dh was saying, who are you to say what is and isn't news? The old Soviet bloc countries tried to dictate to people what was and wasn't news, and you seem no better.

Thomas J

dont get involved with dh

28.07.2002 21:44

dh is well known for posting shite up here
please peeps dont wast your time arguing with them

and while on the subject the reference to...
Let's try a couple of facts:
1) Bin Laden is an evil terrorist mastermind who singlehandedly organised the 9-11 attacks and in consequence the US was forced to attack Afghanistan
Factual? Any other version- infactual? Apparently not
2) Bob Marley smoked such vast quantities of ganja that DNA replication of brain and lung cells was disrupted resulting in virulent fatal cancer.

SO did s/he mail the url's of these postings .......NO
check for yourself on the public archive (mailinglists)left hand colum near the bottom....

caty

what is and what isn't news...

29.07.2002 10:21

It is really simple if you think about it - what dh moans about is that alot of people are bored to death with his postings. Instead of sending the odd bit of news [a report of something that has happened in the uk (but not only) within the spectrum of social justice] he always sends url links to wierd sites around the world that do spout real shit. But he is so worried that the world is not taking the threat of little green men seriously that he has to then bemoan for months that he is being censored, wake up matey, your arguments are weak.

matilda

trash talk caty

30.07.2002 00:37

In response to (1), I'll send you 150 pieces of good evidence why the factoid is crap - if you want it.
In response to (2), the URL is censored, senselessly in my view, by indymedia and you'll find it under the title 'Haile selassie I' down in Hidden or perhaps more simply by clicking the link, ie the censored one
cheers
dh

dh

felicitations, Matilda

30.07.2002 00:47

Hope you don't mind the shite, when you're drowning in it.
Soon come
Still, you can let yourself off with the thought-
'this shit is so booooring!'
Wish you well.

dh

Right On dh

30.07.2002 01:21

The real news is what the mainstream media seeks to suppress and Indymedia chooses to censor, all the rest is advertising for the transnational corporations and the N.W.O. global war agenda. Free speech is just that... free!

Backup

Indymedia is what we make it

30.07.2002 02:48

living in a world of the state imposed information spectrum indymedia has become an invaluable resource for people like myself and peering out beyond the murky waters of the confines of mass perceived reality ,indymedia has enabled me to empower myself with knowledge and understanding of key political developments and without this invaluable resource i would most likely still be stumbling in the dark thinking the west were the good guys and generally traversing this life with my head up my arse

the quality posts are there as are many good external links to information if you spent less time bitchin and more time utilising and collating information you would quickly accrue essential knowledge necessary in determining likely possible global scenarios and implications for the human race ,people like you dragging the tone of the place down should shape up or piss off some place else cognitive dissonnance and ignorance is not really needed much these are already prevalent in society at large without it cluttering up the indymedia newswire
Nuggett {:(H8theG8}:)

Nuggett

On the subject of censorship...

30.07.2002 15:36

The infamous "no story to tell yet" has wreaked its havoc on an article I had posted, this has also happened to two of the last three articles I have posted, I was informed that this was a mere technical glitch, but now I smell a rat...

Thomas J
Homepage: http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=37040&group=webcast

UK Indymedia