There are loads of suitable sites for mass raves in the countryside such as on the moors in the north of the country and on heathland such as Epsom common near London which is massive open space. There are also disused quaries as well in most parts of the country.

I feel that this piece of nasty propaganda (needles left with likkle baa lambs. Arrr.) is somewhat ill informed and disingenuous. The party at Steart beach was pretty rough, and many people there didn't care what damage they inflicted. However, there are a great many people in the scene who are conscious of their impact - directly obvious by the fact that the site could have been a lot worse. OK, there were some muppets burning out cars, but so was there on my estate that weekend. At least the car on the beach will be cleared up in less than a month.
Needless to say, many just came and took what they could and left nothing but rubbish; but many left with more than they came with and showed real responsibility and consideration. You can't stop irresponsible people from doing what they will, but would you prefer it if we kept them contained in their council estates?
Also, I'm really not sure about all this 'nature reserve' talk. That place is dead, man. DEAD. Even the people there get cancer at twice the national rate. Huge mud flats, but with no apparent life in them. I didn't see many birds at all - oops, maybe us freaks frightened them off; like the royalists lighting their beacon. He he he.

Is it true that every non-human mammal within around 1/2 mile of yer average rave takes refuge in its warren/lair/sett and dies of a heart attack?
The loudest noise in nature is thunder, so I could imagine the shock would be fatal.
Still, I agree with Andy - who gives a shit?

People have tried M.O.D land and the Military Police don't take too kindly to it at all .

What a load of pompous, illinformed crap.

Steart beach/Hinkley Point. This is the site of a nuclear power station. Remember that in 50,000 years when who or whatever is inhabiting our planet comes to the area and gets ill and dies. How are they gunna sort out the nuclear mess they leave behind? Case it in concrete is their solution. The pyramids in Egypt are but a few thousand years old and they are in a state and we really don't know that much about them. What happens in 50,000 years to concrete? That's the real damage to the area.

Steart beach was cleaned thoroughly by the ravers and crews there. 3 cars were burnt out. I spoke to the firebrigade when they came to put one out and they said that is less than a normal weekend for this remote dumping ground.

Bollocks was the place strewn with needles. Since when were needle drugs party drugs? In 13 years of free partying, I've never seen a disgarded needle at a rave, either in a squat or field. I see plenty on the streets of my home town mind.

Nature is incredibly resiliant. Go to Steart beach today, a little over a month after 15,000 people partied for 4 days. You'd never know they'd been there, go on take a fucking look rather than just bullshitting to make a story. Indymedia used to carry some respect, now they have slunk to lower depths than the fucking News of the World!

You wanna see rubbish? Go to fucking Brighton after the Fat Boy's had a day ojn the beach! Sure they've paid some money to clean it up, did you see the beach after they'd finished? You couldn't see the peebles for crap. So much of that found it's way into the sea where it is currently chocking, poisoning and generally fucking up the enviroment.

It is our fucking right to party where we like. We;ve been doing it since the dawn of time. Music, drugs, dancing and mooting have been a key feature of all societies throughout history.

Now it seems you can't have fun unless it's regulated and Indymedia seem to be right behind Blair and co, rimming their piles.

So fucking what if the locals got disturbed for a weekend? Selfish cunts want to keep the area all for themselves. They get year round peace and quiet, with georgeous countryside to look at, I get Heathrow fucking Airport - where's my peace and quiet???

It's lambing season, ahhhh, nice and emotive, don't want any balanced views on Indymedia now. Those little lambs, so cute and fluffy, innocent and newly born to the world. The caring farmer, so concerned for their welfare worries that a party may upset his little lambs. That won't do cos then cunt farmer won't be able to pump them full of growth drugs, dip them in poision, heard and harrass them, before sticking them in an overcrowded lorry with little or no water for a journey accross Europe when they'll be murdered. Don't give us little lambs you cunts.

Where's Indymedia's article about clubland? Those Ben Sherman wearing wankers who pile out into our towns and cities at 3 in the morning, shouting at and abusing all who are trying to go about their business, just looking for the flimsiest excuse to hospitalise someone, munching on their kebabs, tossing the reams of wrappings to the wind?

Bollocks to your sensationalist, hyperbole filled so called article, the Daily Mail write with more balance than Indymedia. May the comedowns of a 1000 pill heads be visited upon you scum!

that's right, it's the urban invaders (or the "urban spume",as a recent Devon newspaper had it) again, coming into the countryside and upsetting everything.

The point that it was a wildlife reserve is well made - as we've agreed before, but when you start talking about people as "effluent" ...

People have always danced outside, long before there were nightclubs. And hopefully there always will, and there's more than enough space for there to be places to go that aren't as sensitive. They exist, just not allowed in

Let's face it, the occasionaly messy party isn't the worst problem facing that area:
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_2128000/2128158.stm

You're right to raise the issues, but please try and keep it all in some perspective - there wasn't any needles, the burning of the car was wrong (but a fairly usual weekend event for that spot), the site wasn't the one initially chosen, and if you call fellow humans "effluent" you appear, well, just a nasty piece of work. Which I'm sure you're not.

it's not Indymedia saying this (they covered the actual party), it's somebody's personal point of view (which is fair enough)


Urban Effluent

It's difficult to know where to start on this but firstly I notice you don't have the confidence in your views to leave either your real name or an email address. Given your mention of Farnborough I guess you're probably local to me and enduring the noise of jets 'practising' for the airshow.

Almost every sentence is inaccurate and laden with emotive words and phrases. What is the name of the person who found all these needles in the field of gambolling lambs?Biased and unsupported views are put forward in so many places it seems pointless to begin correcting them. But lets make one thing clear, neither Steart Beach or Smeatharpe Airfield were peviously spotless places of beauty and neither of them were 'trashed'. As just one example, the tyres carefully featured in photos of Smeatharpe were left there by other users of the place - nice quiet, respectable car racers.

For me there is one central point to address - why shouldn't people be able to party? It's a simple desire common to all humans, we like to celebrate life in many different ways. Free parties are one of those ways. Though the image given is that party goers are wild and crazy the truth is that every single one I've been to has genuinely been far safer than trying to walk my local high street on Friday or Saturday night.

Yes, it is possible to run events such as the Ambient Picnic but the costs that are placed on doing so are horrendous and the terms very inflexible. The picnic has to finish the music by 9.00pm, Guildford Philharmonic can make a noise until 10.30pm!!

When choosing a site most organisers take many factors into account and are not looking to cause harm or problems. They try to choose sites that will cause the minumum disruption to local inhabitants. When Police decide to make access to sites difficult, then yes there are problems. At Steart it meant using a far less practical site for the party. At both parties Police roadblocks meant that people were pushed into seeking alternative routes, if you can't walk the roads and paths then you end up walking through fields in the dark. This is not an excuse for damaging fences but one reason why it occurs.

It is fair that you should be able to comment but by overdramatising you obscure the real issues and you come over as lacking in real experience.

That's the point isn't it. The restrictions on parties are huge, suitable (lawful) venues are limited, safety (from the law) can best be guaranteed by numbers, any form of 'organiser' can be targeted & arrested. Staart was (for some) as much about the demonstration of the freedom to party, then anything else.
I deplore the wreckers, most people do, but they are an inevitable consequence of the current regime.
Observation, lambing in July, sounds very late for west country farming, but yes there is a risk of sheep gaining prematurely if panicked. Anyway, this country .v. city argument helps no one & creates division, the country is not an exclusive back garden for those who live there.
When people start to look at the opportunities of parties have to offer, rather than the threat {SWOT Analysis], then something constructive can happen, at the moment it's all control freakery, risk averse, nanny state.

Having re-read your post: "If the ravers and clubbers must exercise their God given right to dance, then choose a suitable venue,"

Fair point, as I've mentioned locations are considered carefully - "an ASDA car park" - Most of us don't want to dance on oily tarmac and these tend to be situated in areas of high population density which it would be very inconsiderate to disturb - "a GM farm-scale field trial." - Ah, I see, these aren't 'real farmers' so we can go there. Any suggested locations?

"Or why not the heathland to the west of Farnborough Airport? TAG/MoD" - MoD are happy to deploy excessive and illegal force in dealing with such events as they are politically protected.

"Party sometime in July before the start of the Farnborough Airshow (22-28 July 2002) and you may manage to scupper the world's biggest arms festival." - Great, you start organising it and we'll come along

To the unconditional pro-partiers:
Is it really 'our right to party where we fucking like'?

- Like next to hospital (keep those sick twats awake for a few nights - who cares?)

- Like in the middle of a environmentally fragile area (fluffy animals - who gives a shit - we're MENTALL!!?)

Or does that make us selfish bastards?

Self-regulation and autonomy...

A bunch of ravers or BNFL?

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_2128000/2128158.stm

Bird Sanctuary - pull the other one? That place was barren and desolate. If it forms such a vital habitat to marinefowl then how come all I saw for 4 days there was a couple of swans. Flocks of gulls fishing in the sea, and pecking on dropped crisps and veggieburgers? - not a sqwawk to be heard.

Take a look on the beach and you might get an idea why? The lack of marine wildlife. Might have expected to have found shells, fish, plantlife like on any other beach. Little was evident living there apart from the monstrousity of a power station sticking out like a sore thumb.

Good discussion going on here, just as on many many party bulletin boards and discussion forums after the parties mentioned above. That means that these issues are important to many people.

There are contradictions in most of our lives because we live amidst a system many of us don't like the majority of. Any large gathering will come up against huge contradictions, I myself come up against them every day in the products, services, facilities and materials I use.

Free parties are rarely utopian visions of a new society, but they can come pretty close - like the thames beach party in london last week (on the same night as the brighton beach mess) with 400 people partying and then clearing up all rubbish, sorting it for recycling and removing it off site. While Steart beach was rocking I was at another party for about 1000 people in wales, all rubbish cleared offsite, nothing but dead wood burnt. While the post solstice pre glastonbury party was going on I was again at another party for around 800 people, again all rubbish was removed off site, and normal party people as opposed to any 'organisers' or rig crew worked together to politely encourage people not to trample over certain more sensitive areas of the site.

It's certainly a different case when you consider a party where thousands upon thousands of people attend. In cases like this there is the simple fact that with so many people there, the problems that exist across the whole of our society are in some ways mirrored - that's a fact. What's important is what people do with that fact.

The initial post here is amazing, painting all party people as effluent and urban waste. Sure a car was set on fire at Steart beach, but you'll have to go a long way to find many people who think this was a good idea - just take a look at the party bulletin boards and you'll see comment after comment slagging off the little shits that did this. Snap for the alt glastonbury party (btw the bbc article about this had a picture taken from an angle that emphasised all of the discarded tyers stacked up - these were here b4 the party or do you think ravers now have a new sport called tyre stacking where everyone has to bring an old tyre to the party!?!?)

Also re the post solstice / alt glastonbury parties, many people involved in the Stonehenge reconciliation initiatives (ie those who have worked to secure the controlled open access to the stones we now enjoy) have been trying to build a process to secure a 'legal' site for a gathering. This year it didn't work and there were many rumours of the police sabotaging these efforts, next year it may be more likely.

Anyway the initial post is put together with snippits taken from many websites and forums showing one side only and then sprinkled with quite fantastic biaised bullshit. I'm glad it's been posted 'cos there are serious issues here, and as I said before, much discussion is going on around them.

And as to schnews 'losing a great deal of credibility' for listing festivals and parties in their Party and Protest guide... well that's just laughable, given that this is what schnews has always done, and that to a large extent the DIY scene was behind the explosion of direct action through most of the 1990's. Reminds me of the post on Indymedia recently saying that a report posting on other Castlemortan anniversary / jubilee weekend parties was not suitable content for Indymedia (!?) see  http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=33093

And thanks to 'GuilFIN' for pointing out to 'Sleeze' that the initial article is not the views of Indymedia (or as sleaze said aka news of the world, blair rimming etcetc) but simply the posting of one individual's views.

i saw horses i saw dog's i saw some pretty fucked up looking cows i heard we had 4 times the national average for gamma radiation on that site and i saw some of the "local's" they all had strange rashes!!!!! one guy looked like something out of a hammer horror film big potmarks all over his face my mate fell asleep on the ground and woke up with a rash on one side of his face oh and the police were asking people if they felt ok as they left
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS GUY ON??????????????????????????

sleeze, this article is not by indymedia, its a contributor. since when have you ever risked your neck like most of the indymedia journos? er, were you on the front lines of Genoa or prague, like me?

please don't destroy indymedia because you will destroy the movement. as a journo that has paid with so much blood. perhaps the site and the network means alot more to me than you. if you want some fucking news, i am chasing Fini in italy at the moment and i am going on the carlo demo on saturday in Genoa. where are you? sitting behind you comfy computer with you armchair thoughts?

Indymedia does not fall into fucking line behind Tony Blair either... and we are Global as well. taking on and questioning all the world leaders who are fucking up this planet...

you are attacking the wrong side. you should be condemning the police for harrassing party goers...

As with the whole of society, there are some who are responsible, and others who aren't. Some who are irresponsible are this way because they are naive, some find that they have taken on more than they can handle, some find themselves pushed into a situation due to outside influences, and a few are irresponsible because that is the way they are.

As someone who has been heavily involved in running both licenced and unlicenced outdoor and indoor events for the last 5-6 years, I feel fairly qualified to comment on this subject. I am also a commited environmentalist, as well as believing strongly in the right of people to organise outdoor events providing they do so in a responsible way.

When throwing parties / raves... we always attempt to choose a site carefully, ensuring that:-
The site is far enough away from residents to ensure that there is little or no noise disturbance,
The site is suitable for the number of people expected, and that there is ample space for peeps to spill over into and park if the turnout is huge.
The party won't cause unsustainable damage to the ecosystem (we throw one small scale party a year on a beach with managed dunes, because it's a lush site, and too many parties would cause damage, but one small party is sustainable).
The party is unlikely to cause problems with local landowners / building owners etc. (by choosing land owned by forestry commission etc. or getting permission, or using plots of obviously unused land, squatting buildings that have been left empty for several years...)

We also try to have an alternative site sussed out in case something stops us using the planned site, although this isn't always possible.

Over the years we have tried (relatively successfully) to instill a sense of responsibility into our party people, encouraging them to help with the clear up at the end of the party etc.

We have a rule that the site / building should be treated with respect and should be left in a better state than we found it, and in 95% of cases the site has been left cleaner than when we started.

This attitude is not just a magnanamous gesture on our part, but has enabled us to build up a level of respect with the local authorities and police, which has resulted in us being allowed to proceed with parties which may otherwise have been stopped.

The authorities have increasingly recognised the fact that we actually have more experience of organising safe, high quality events than most of them do, to the extent that when last years Love Parade was cancelled at the last minute, the council (or certain council officers) asked us to organise a rave to entertain clubbers who still turned up. The result was 3-4,000 people (over the day) partying for free to 4 sound systems, with police and first aid support, and the council turning up with portaloos for us.

This policy paid off for us when on NYE of the millenium we were busted by 40 riot police... The police tried everything, but couldn't find a single thing to prosecute us for (did peeps know that the CJA does not apply to indoor parties???).

Are rave organisers responsible? IMO the vast majority are, and in most cases are way more responsible than inexperienced council event organisers. As a final example, last year we only threw one very small forest party because of our concerns about the potential for spreading foot and mouth.

There are thousands of free parties that happen in this country each year, but only the worst 1% ever get reported.

I can't comment about the party at Steart, coz i wasn't there and wasn't involved, but would suspect that the organisers have cleared the site up, and that there is little lasting damage. Yet I'm sure the event will live on in the memories of thousands for years to come. Respect to those who still have the bottle and the organisational ability to pull of events of this scale, without leaving a trail of complete devastation in their wake.

A new understanding needs to be reached between the authorities and party organisers, that manages to get past the current situation of mutual loathing, to one of mutual understanding. We need to get past the beurocracy of licencing (and the blatent bias and lack of understanding from the police/magistrates) to make it simpler to just throw good, safe parties without the major cost implications that licencing usually places on us. This would not require a major change in the law, just a change in attitude from the authorities (and in some cases the party organisers).

Exactly what *is* the countryside anyway? Almost all of the UK is terraformed to accomodate the massive populous anyway so what is left? Steart Beach Teknival may have caused a few birds and local wildlife a few day's stress but it's nothing in comparison to what we've done and continue to do on a country wide basis.

There is nowhere left, I mean you could party in an old airstrip (say) but for a start *it was built* and secondly it'll be supporting a niche ecosystem that's important now. I've heard of free parties disturbing wildlife no more than I've heard that foxes like toast and jam from my urban garbage and that birds sound like car alarms and mobiles.

It's a bit crap getting so charged about a 3 day rave when you look at the wider picture of what happens in UK urbanisation on a daily basis. There are a lot of people out there that just don't care yeah but whatever you do in this country you *are* stepping on somebodys toes, the only seperation being whether it's allowed. Steart Beach offered escape and a lot very determined people managed to do just that.

Re Steart Beach party:

There's about to be a new armed nuclear police force under the control of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry so it might be a bit more tricky soon to party on that particular beach.

Oh, and if you thought one nuclear reactor was enough, there's another one planned for the same location according to schnews:

Plans for a second nuclear reactor at Hinkley Point rumble on despite a recent survey conducted by concerned parents which found rates of cancer in the area were four times the national average. There’s a public meeting ‘Stopping the drive for New Nuclear Power Stations’, 7.30pm 25th July, Temple of Peace, Cathays Park, Cardiff 01984 632109  stophinkley@aol.com

---

UK: New nuclear police force
 http://www.statewatch.org/news/2002/jul/06nenig.htm

story from NENIG (Northern European Nuclear Information Group): NENIG

"The UK Government this week announced a major shake-up in security in the nuclear industry. The responsibility for policing of civil nuclear sites is to be taken away from the UK Atomic Energy Authority and a new Civil Nuclear Constabulary (CNC) formed under the ultimate control of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.

The new force is to get new powers - on top of the extended powers given to the UKAEA Constabulary following the 11th September attacks. As well as being able to make arrests at non-nuclear locations such as sea ports, airports and railway stations, the armed nuclear police can patrol and stop and search individuals and vehicles up to three miles from nuclear sites.

The new CNC may also have 'civilian support officers' who will have the power to stop and search both inside and outside nuclear sites - although it is unclear at present how far outside the site these civilians will be able to exercise their special powers. The Government statement says: 'Consideration is also being given to including provision for a new category of civilian support officer to undertake searches of people and vehicles in or just outside the sites the AEAC protects. The purpose would be to free police manpower for more demanding tasks. Such staff would be specially trained, exercise limited and specified powers, and operate under the Chief Constable's control. This provision would be included only if Parliament has previously accorded comparable powers to other police forces.'

The new CNC will work much like the existing transport and Ministry of Defence police forces - the later force being responsible for military nuclear sites. A chief constable will be appointed by the Secretary of State along with members of the police authority. Apparently the police authority will 'occasionally' meet in public. The new force is expected to have up to 600 members."

Wait shift - you cant just right off the consequences of a do like that. It sounds like the organisers under mad pressure from the enforcement, took refuge in a place they wouldnt have chosen otherwise. Nature reserves are marked on maps, which they must have used, but you cant expect them to just give up + go home. I see it as a snap choice which turned out to be a bad one. Castro fucked up at the barracks didnt he?
respect to people pulling off these parties of resistance, but you cant ignore harm to nature just because we've already damaged it...

From the SchNEWS how to hold a free party guide
 http://www.schnews.org.uk/diyguide/howtohaveafreeparty.htm

"Wherever you party, cleaning up afterwards is essential. Why should we fuck up the countryside for a party —after all industry and roads do it much more effectively. Cleaning up keeps on the good side of locals and helps perpetuate the outdoor free partyvibe—man!"

Also check the latest issue for a spot on damning critique of the fucked up Fatboy Slim beach party in brighton last weekend that left the beach covered in rubbish and broken glass:
 http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news365.htm

By the way, the latest issue of Mixmag magazine (or wankmag as it's often known for its huge number of raver girl pictures) has got a one page 'how to have an illegal rave and not get busted' guide, and an almost full page feature on the Castlemorton Steart beach party - They fully cop out though by failing to include any web address for further info (apart from where to hire toilets from!), while cramming the space between pictures of scantily clad women with scores of URLs for the latest fashion accessory or superclub.

Hi.

Judging from IndyMedia bulletin board, my original anger over countryside
trashing has opened Pandora's Box!
Someone posted a supporting message and hell has broken out.

Leaving aside the minority (FUCK! WE'LL GO WHERE WE LIKE, DO WHAT WE
WANT), and those from fools who have zero
respect, liking, or tolerance of nature, three very real concerns emerge.
First is weight of legislastion, licensing laws. Red tape has ALWAYS
been bad, but today's Nanny State takes the biscuit. More they
legislate, more folks struggle to find ways around.
It's a never-ending & pernicious circle. Our freedoms are being
buffeted from all sides, so no wonder people fight back.
There is real anger out there. My plea is - don't take it out on the
innocent, don't direct it towards the birds and the beasts,
don't trash the few open spaces left to us. Channel it, instead against
the perpetrators. One guy wrote that he lived under the flightpath
into Heathrow, so why shouldn't he come and beat up a quiet spot in the
country in retaliation!
What a banana! For fuck's sake, if he's angry about Heathrow,
where was he during our fights against T.5? Where was he
when we demonstrated outside the agm's of BAA & BA? Where was we when
did a go-slow through the tunnel, and caused gridlock? If he wants to
PARTY WITH A POINT - go 'party' in Lord Marshall's backyard.

Second thing is the numbers game. Large is NOT beautiful, as you know
from Brighton Beach. Trouble here is that
commercial interests & 'mainstream' media have picked up on what they see
as the latest trend. Hence all those fences around Glastonbury,
sleazebag 'security' company in charge etc, etc. Publications like
MixMag get their info from your own bulletin boards. Then they
manipulate, distort and SELL.

Most serious, though, is Hinkley Point. People wrote DEAD space, no
birds in sight. If you were a nesting, wading bird would you hang around
while 10,000 people brought their vehicles, fumes, noise, into your
'home'? Another banana . . .
Hinkley, however, is a major concern. Bristol Channel contaminated.
Burnham -on - Sea has cancer levels way above the
nat. average. Shellfish found glowing in the dark off Welsh coast.
Yet, as I write, DTI & 'gov' making plans to build Hinkley C.
The STOP HINKLEY campaign has been fighting valiently against this outrage
for many, many years. Their cause has been highlighted and undermined
by your beach rave. The result will be barbed wire and armed guards
surrounding the entire area.

If only instead of garbage, the party people had left behind them notices:
DANGER. CONTAMINATED AREA. RADIATION.
KEEP OUT!.

That would have been a party with a point; instead, like Brighton Beach,
it was a costly, overblown mistake. The guy from under the Heathrow
flightpath has recovered from his hangover, and he's back under the planes
and the pollution. The
'locals' of Bridgwater Bay have returned to their homes and the radiation.
The wading birds have tried to hatch a second brood.

Final ? Will these folks return, in the same numbers, to support the
STOP HINKLEY campaign?

Sadly, I fear not - they will have moved on to trash innocents elsewhere.

Best,

Jenny

Nessuno.

I write Indymedia to refer to the poster, Mr. Party Trasher, not the site as a whole.

I was under the warped illusion that by it's very nature, this board is an organic part of Indymedia, thus the posters are all Indymedia, including me.

My computer isn't comfy and sadly neither is my armchair. Well done for being in Genoa and Prague, what's happened as a result of those protests? From my un-comfy computer it looks to the World as if anti-globalisation protesters are mindless thugs who've chanced upon a good excuse for some argy-bargy.

I know that not to be strictly true, but as with hunt sabbing, there are a large percentage for whom the label sticks. This is counter-productive to the 'movement'.

Where am I when you are in Italy? I'm busy condeming the police for harrassing party goers - EVRY SATURDAY NIGHT AS I RISK MY RIG/LIBERTY/BONES dealing on the front line with them to ensure that the party goes off.

Thanks to the efforts of people such as myself, we have numerous multi-rig squat parties every weekend in London, and this summer we pulled off Steart Beach, Ringwood Forest (for which we were nicked with all rig impounded until the git on the comfy computer persuaded the Chief Constable of Avon & Somerset to change his mind via telephone - The Miracle of Pan!K), numerous Moots and more to come.

To me that's positive direct action. We all have causes close to our hearts, we can only persue so many though. You may chose the anti-globalisation/capitalist cause, I chose the right to party as our ancestors have for 1000's of years - DO WHAT YOU WILL, HARM NO ONE.

See mem at the next Rave - I'll see you at the next RIOT.

XXX