why the reports are one side only
oded basis | 29.05.2002 13:11
good afternoon indymedia uk
my name is oded and i live in israel.i went for indymedia israel but i excidently serf to uk
i read two days ago the article about protest near israeli ambassy in london.
today i came again to this link and found that nobody wrote anything about the last three days in "palestin".
this is the first time i write an article and my mother languish is'nt english,so please be pasiant with my mistakes.
first of all,i protest with all my hart for the use of the word nazi for the conflict.my grandmother came from the tawn comarna(in poland) in 1927 to palestin.
in 1942 there were only ten living jews from comarna.6000 people destroied.
most in treblinka camp and the rest got shot and barried in a huge hall in the ground in a forest near the tawn in the first week of nazi arrival to the area
do not use this word "nazi" unless you reffering to the war in 1939-1945
about zionizm: some of the people writing to indymedia hate zionizm. writing songs against it,say that the "zionists are..." like they the humanity's bigest enemy.
zionizm today,to my mind is anachronism.
the zionist movement started in 1903 by a young jewish jornalist after he saw the terrible conditions the jews live in russia.drifus affair make a big influence on him and he decide that the only solution to the jewish problem is a state for them.
terrible anty jewish wave grew more and more from 1881 untill the nazis came along.
jews flee from russia all the time,from poland in 1920-1930,and germany1931-1939.
most of them came to america.(3 millions)
500,000 came to palestin and meat 6000 palestinians jews.(jews who live in palestine from biblical times)
in1800 there were 250000 arabs in palestine.
after the egiption accupation in 1831-1840 thinks start to get better.
european powers start halping the cristians in the holy land and the jews enjoied it too.the otoman empire(turky) fear that palestin will taken away from theire grip so they incorege imigration of moslems from syria,lebanon,east benk of jordan river,bosnians,egyptions,and nomades from the desert (bedwies).
palestine was a wastland.moors,desert,deseases(malaria) and many robbers and corropted otomans officials started to change.
new comers astablish new villages and from the crowded tawns the people move out and build the first seburbs.
in the 1870' there were 450000 arabs and nomber of jews start to rise slowly.
between 1881-1914 60000 jews came(most from the hell of russia)but half of them ceft due to the taugh conditions.
in 1914 they were 700000 arabs and 100000 jews in palestin.
in 1939 they were 600000 jews in palestine.after six years they descover that they all alone.all their friends and relatives they left behind became ashes,and soaps.
in 1947 650000 jews and 1,200,000 arabs live in palestine.
the arabs dicided to "through the jews to the sea"
obiously,this is the jewish side.
the arabs story is defferent.but the nombers are taken from histotry books who found those numbers in the otmans and british archives.
my point is :most arabs and jews who live now in "palestin" are immigrants.300,000 arabs and 6000 jews didnt immigrate.
may i say that my greatfather born in the old city of jerusalem-a accupied teritory of the zio-nazi colonialists.
so,both sides are right and wrong.both of them have ancient traditions concerning this land.
the arabs national movement in palestin is as legitimate as the jewish one(who called zionism that come from the word zion-one of the biblical names of jerusalem.
i think that the only solution is the one in pakistan-india problem.
two seperate states with secure and open borders.
people who write hatred songs about zionism are people who say:jewish rights are not legitimate,go home to europe.
jews were living in palestine from 1400 befor christ untill 603 after christ.then,the beasant christians destroy the jewish camunities in palestine.from 1,200,000 in 162 a.d. theire number decline to 800000 after the second jewish revolt against rome,to 200000 in 600 a.d. and few thausents just befor arab invation in 630(i think,maybe 670)a.d.
i am sorry for the bouring history lesson but who that want to stick his nose in a conflict and pick sides,should know the facts.
about the names:land of cnaa'n was the ancient name.
after the israelit tribes came along(and mernaftach,king of egypt remind them in an astila he wrote )the name change to land of israel.
in land were the israelis and in the shores were the philistinies.
they came from greece and it was natural from the greeks to call the country palestina.the romans call it yudea because when they came,they found the jews(in latin,j change with y) as the maijority.
after the second jewish revolt against rome the romens decided to destroy the jews.the disalowed sercosision,destroy jerusalem and all the jewish villages in judea mountains,did not allowed jews to come to judea mountains ,built aroman city in the place jerusalem was ,and call it illia capitolina.the old yudea province unite with syria province and called syria palestina province.
when the moslems came,they call the country falastin.
i think that the arab state sould be yahudi-arabia.
this article is a compleat mess.
a.arab and jewish rights are equel
b.both sides suffer and made terrible things
c.only solution is two seperate cauntries
d.zionism is not aparthide,nore colonialism.
e.people who say that all people should be indipandent accept the jews (antizionism)is actualy saying that he is sopport racesizm.
i like to talk also about the remark one surfer wrote.
he say that israelis use arabs as hard laybour and dont have civil rights.
this is not the truoth.
arabs that live inside the israel,not in the teritories,have the same rights as i have.they can vote and getting allected.
from 120 parlament members,12 are arabs.
they work at any job(doctors,policemen,phisicists,lawyers atc.)
but they have truble to get jobs concerning sensitive militry conected knoledge.
arabs sometimes fill humiliated in security checks(airports,bus stations atc. but i think this is because the terorist are arabs and not everyone can seperate between terrorist and nonterrorist.
we in israel have a law. there is alimit that employee cant pay less then this limit as a sallery. we call it minimum wage law.do you have it in england?
forget the hard laybour theory.its work in places when people sold as slaves in sudan,saudi-arabia atc
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++i wanted to write my article about"oneside reports in palestine" but i carried away.
in the last few days they were 4 terror attacks.
1.in tel aviv.in a fuel storage facility abomb exploded.it was a miricle that the all storage got explode number of victims could rise to 100000.
2.in "reshon le zion"-a tawn very close to my tawn-suicide bomber explode him self with 3 people.
3.suicide bomber in a tawn very close to tel aviv killed alittle baby girl and her grandmother.
i was shocked that the indipendent media group did not report about it.
does jewish blood less red then the palestinian one?
after a few weeks like this and mor dead israelis, another israeli incursions will take place in "palestin"and then all of you will rise and shout: messecere! zio-nazis!! enemies of humanity!! you,you...you jews!!
dont do it
work to stop the war and not to make a race ,who hate israelis mor
both sides saffering,in both sides there are humanitarian stories,and nobody is nazi.
this is not about racism.thats about two nations who fight for the same peace of land,and nobody told them that they can make a partition like it was between india and pakistan.
with a hope for peace
oded
my name is oded and i live in israel.i went for indymedia israel but i excidently serf to uk
i read two days ago the article about protest near israeli ambassy in london.
today i came again to this link and found that nobody wrote anything about the last three days in "palestin".
this is the first time i write an article and my mother languish is'nt english,so please be pasiant with my mistakes.
first of all,i protest with all my hart for the use of the word nazi for the conflict.my grandmother came from the tawn comarna(in poland) in 1927 to palestin.
in 1942 there were only ten living jews from comarna.6000 people destroied.
most in treblinka camp and the rest got shot and barried in a huge hall in the ground in a forest near the tawn in the first week of nazi arrival to the area
do not use this word "nazi" unless you reffering to the war in 1939-1945
about zionizm: some of the people writing to indymedia hate zionizm. writing songs against it,say that the "zionists are..." like they the humanity's bigest enemy.
zionizm today,to my mind is anachronism.
the zionist movement started in 1903 by a young jewish jornalist after he saw the terrible conditions the jews live in russia.drifus affair make a big influence on him and he decide that the only solution to the jewish problem is a state for them.
terrible anty jewish wave grew more and more from 1881 untill the nazis came along.
jews flee from russia all the time,from poland in 1920-1930,and germany1931-1939.
most of them came to america.(3 millions)
500,000 came to palestin and meat 6000 palestinians jews.(jews who live in palestine from biblical times)
in1800 there were 250000 arabs in palestine.
after the egiption accupation in 1831-1840 thinks start to get better.
european powers start halping the cristians in the holy land and the jews enjoied it too.the otoman empire(turky) fear that palestin will taken away from theire grip so they incorege imigration of moslems from syria,lebanon,east benk of jordan river,bosnians,egyptions,and nomades from the desert (bedwies).
palestine was a wastland.moors,desert,deseases(malaria) and many robbers and corropted otomans officials started to change.
new comers astablish new villages and from the crowded tawns the people move out and build the first seburbs.
in the 1870' there were 450000 arabs and nomber of jews start to rise slowly.
between 1881-1914 60000 jews came(most from the hell of russia)but half of them ceft due to the taugh conditions.
in 1914 they were 700000 arabs and 100000 jews in palestin.
in 1939 they were 600000 jews in palestine.after six years they descover that they all alone.all their friends and relatives they left behind became ashes,and soaps.
in 1947 650000 jews and 1,200,000 arabs live in palestine.
the arabs dicided to "through the jews to the sea"
obiously,this is the jewish side.
the arabs story is defferent.but the nombers are taken from histotry books who found those numbers in the otmans and british archives.
my point is :most arabs and jews who live now in "palestin" are immigrants.300,000 arabs and 6000 jews didnt immigrate.
may i say that my greatfather born in the old city of jerusalem-a accupied teritory of the zio-nazi colonialists.
so,both sides are right and wrong.both of them have ancient traditions concerning this land.
the arabs national movement in palestin is as legitimate as the jewish one(who called zionism that come from the word zion-one of the biblical names of jerusalem.
i think that the only solution is the one in pakistan-india problem.
two seperate states with secure and open borders.
people who write hatred songs about zionism are people who say:jewish rights are not legitimate,go home to europe.
jews were living in palestine from 1400 befor christ untill 603 after christ.then,the beasant christians destroy the jewish camunities in palestine.from 1,200,000 in 162 a.d. theire number decline to 800000 after the second jewish revolt against rome,to 200000 in 600 a.d. and few thausents just befor arab invation in 630(i think,maybe 670)a.d.
i am sorry for the bouring history lesson but who that want to stick his nose in a conflict and pick sides,should know the facts.
about the names:land of cnaa'n was the ancient name.
after the israelit tribes came along(and mernaftach,king of egypt remind them in an astila he wrote )the name change to land of israel.
in land were the israelis and in the shores were the philistinies.
they came from greece and it was natural from the greeks to call the country palestina.the romans call it yudea because when they came,they found the jews(in latin,j change with y) as the maijority.
after the second jewish revolt against rome the romens decided to destroy the jews.the disalowed sercosision,destroy jerusalem and all the jewish villages in judea mountains,did not allowed jews to come to judea mountains ,built aroman city in the place jerusalem was ,and call it illia capitolina.the old yudea province unite with syria province and called syria palestina province.
when the moslems came,they call the country falastin.
i think that the arab state sould be yahudi-arabia.
this article is a compleat mess.
a.arab and jewish rights are equel
b.both sides suffer and made terrible things
c.only solution is two seperate cauntries
d.zionism is not aparthide,nore colonialism.
e.people who say that all people should be indipandent accept the jews (antizionism)is actualy saying that he is sopport racesizm.
i like to talk also about the remark one surfer wrote.
he say that israelis use arabs as hard laybour and dont have civil rights.
this is not the truoth.
arabs that live inside the israel,not in the teritories,have the same rights as i have.they can vote and getting allected.
from 120 parlament members,12 are arabs.
they work at any job(doctors,policemen,phisicists,lawyers atc.)
but they have truble to get jobs concerning sensitive militry conected knoledge.
arabs sometimes fill humiliated in security checks(airports,bus stations atc. but i think this is because the terorist are arabs and not everyone can seperate between terrorist and nonterrorist.
we in israel have a law. there is alimit that employee cant pay less then this limit as a sallery. we call it minimum wage law.do you have it in england?
forget the hard laybour theory.its work in places when people sold as slaves in sudan,saudi-arabia atc
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++i wanted to write my article about"oneside reports in palestine" but i carried away.
in the last few days they were 4 terror attacks.
1.in tel aviv.in a fuel storage facility abomb exploded.it was a miricle that the all storage got explode number of victims could rise to 100000.
2.in "reshon le zion"-a tawn very close to my tawn-suicide bomber explode him self with 3 people.
3.suicide bomber in a tawn very close to tel aviv killed alittle baby girl and her grandmother.
i was shocked that the indipendent media group did not report about it.
does jewish blood less red then the palestinian one?
after a few weeks like this and mor dead israelis, another israeli incursions will take place in "palestin"and then all of you will rise and shout: messecere! zio-nazis!! enemies of humanity!! you,you...you jews!!
dont do it
work to stop the war and not to make a race ,who hate israelis mor
both sides saffering,in both sides there are humanitarian stories,and nobody is nazi.
this is not about racism.thats about two nations who fight for the same peace of land,and nobody told them that they can make a partition like it was between india and pakistan.
with a hope for peace
oded
oded basis
Comments
Hide the following 11 comments
INCORRECT FACTS
29.05.2002 15:50
Secondly,
A few facts, nobody doubts that the Holocaust was a terrible event both for Jews across the world and for humanity, but this does not justify the State of Israel's crimes against the Palestinians (who today have become to use Edward Said's phrase "Refugees of Refugees, Victims of Victims).
The injustice that happened to Jews in Europe does not justify the dispossession of an entire people and the continued ILLEGAL occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
(For the Zionists dodgy record during WW2 I refer readers to the Jewish Historian, Lenni Brenner's book "Zionism in the Age of Dictators", the entire text is available on the internet).
Also, the idea of Israel as a refuge for the Jewish population is flawed, the majority of the world's Jewish population does not live there, and it is the least safe place for Jews to live in the world.
(These troubles were anticipated by Jewish critics of Zionism prior to the creation of the State of Israel, who predicted that Israel would only be able to exist by becoming the lackey of imperialism, and would be in a state of war against her neighbours).
Historically, Palestinians opposed Zionism (prior to the creation of the State of Israel), because the Zionists made clear there aim to control the whole of Palestine. They opposed the partition plan of 1947 because it gave Jews who owned 7% of the land, and formed less than a third of the Population over Half of the land.
The Palestinians had seen there fellow arab countries throw off the yoke of imperialism, and in there own struggle found themselves victim of a rearguard action from new colonizers, the Zionists.
The writer claims that Palestinians wanted to "drive us into the sea", many Palestinians did historically contest Zionist colonialism, but since 1967 virtually all Palestinians have accepted the right of Jews to remain in the Middle East, whether in the One State Solution (a secular, democratic state of Palestine - incorporating Israel where all ethnic groups, and religions have equality), or in a Two State Solution (with a separate Palestinian and Israeli state).
What I find amusing about the Zionists repeated mantra, "The Palestinians want to drive us into the sea", is what they continually accuse the Palestinians of wanting to do to them they have actually done to the Palestinians. As American-Jewish commentator Noam Chomsky has written, the catastrophe Israel fears has actually happened to the Palestinians.
In 1948 a million Palestinians were expelled by force and terror from their homes (the claim by Israel that they left on the orders of Arab states, so that the Arab countries could invade Israel hsa been exposed as a complete myth by modern Israeli-Jewish historians). The Palestinian people form the largest refugee population in the world. A substantial number live under Brutal Ilegal military occupation, they have absolutely no security (for Israels human rights record, see the website of respected israeli human rights group B'TSELEM).
The writer is also mistaken when he claims that Palestinians within Israel have equal rights to Jews, I refer him to a good book by Israeli-Jewish Journalist David Grossman, "Sleeping on the Wire" about Palestinians in Israel.
How can Arabs be equal in a state that defines itself as a Jewish State of the world-wide Jewish people, when 20% of its population are non-Jewish, and when 92% of land is designated as being for Jewish use only?
ANTONIUS CLIFFUS JNR.
kol hakavod, oded
29.05.2002 16:46
antonius wotsit immediately sees its israeli, he says it must be lies. he has very nice counter-arguments, but they dont address anything that oded said. who said that the holocaust is an excuse for the control of the territories? you did, mate. i also feel that the word Nazi is very overused and insensitive in the indymedia community.
two quick questions to antonius:
a) "since 1967 virtually all Palestinians have accepted the right of Jews to remain in the Middle East"? Arafat set up his terrorist PLO in 1964 to destroy Israel, he certainly didnt stop it after '67. The Hamas charter has the destruction of Israel in its driving principles. Look at the badge Arafat wears on his army uniform, or the PATV logo, or in any palestinian schoolbook or website or banner. Its the whole state of Israel, not just the West Bank and Gaza. I (like oded, which antonius ignored) agree with an autonomous Palestinian sate living side by side with Israel, but there are those in 'Palestine' urging for a state instead of Israel.
b) Palestinians in Israel? either you are saying that the territories are Israel, which I doubt you are, or you mean Israeli-Arabs. Black people in America have equal rights according to the law, but statistically they are poorer and work in crapper jobs than whites. But no one would argue that America is an apartheid state or not a democracy. Israel -Israel proper - is not racist. It has protected in its declaration of independance the right for any Jew to come and live there, but with regards to other religions immigration policy is the same as any other country. Of course, Israel has to be whiter than white, but in real terms Israels democracy is no worse than Britains, Europes or the States'. Complain against it, but dont distort it to suit yourself.
cheers.
Josh
e-mail:
osh_josh_bgosh@nospam.hotmail.com
Likud say NEVER to Palestinian state
29.05.2002 18:41
Still, for such pearls as, "... no one would argue that America is ... not a democracy", we must thank Josh. I haven't laughed so much for ages.
For those interested in Jewish/Israeli perspectives which don't blindly endorse Ariel Sharon's demented onslaught try the following tiny sample:
Peace/human rights
Refuseniks
Auntie Beeb
:)
29.05.2002 19:31
Josh
e-mail:
osh_josh_bgosh@nospam.hotmail.com
a small point
30.05.2002 09:47
Doesn't Israel have laws restricting certain jobs to Jewish applicants only (supposedly on grounds of state security)?
And also a law restricting who can live where on racial grounds (somewhat like the Group Areas Act in the old apartheid South Africa)?
(serious questions, not rhetorical)
ageing hack
ill try and answer
30.05.2002 12:51
a) I think all security jobs are non-arab only. Non-Jews are not required to serve in the army, although the Druze and Bedouin population relinquished this and they are the best trackers in the army. I dont know of any 'normal' jobs that Arabs are not allowed to do, although from what I've seen the crappy jobs (sweeping streets, construction work, etc.) are usually done by Arabs and Russians. Since the intifada, when basically Palestinians were stopped from coming to work in Israel proper, there have been less Arab workers, so I guess it used to be Israeli and Palestinian Arabs working together before. That said, my father who was in one of the top intense education programmes in the country, worked with several Israeli arab doctors and proffessors, so its not absolute. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone. (Just an aside, Haaretz yesterday did an interview with inhabitants of an Israeli Arab village, and they knew what they were talking about. "I've been in this country longer than Sharon, and I'm more Israeli than he is" was one suprising comment that I remember).
b) I don't think so. In Jerusalem, for instance, east Jerusalem is mostly Arab and west Jerusalem mostly Jewish. But its not clearly divided, and there are so many living in the 'other' side that its going to make it difficult when they split it up. Especially the Old City - the Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Armenian quarters are basically just names now, everyone lives everywhere (with few tensions, although thats not reported much here). I don't know if there are any laws prohibiting anyone from living anywhere. I doubt there are any Arabs living in West Bank settlements or Jews in old-time Arab villages, but I dont think thats a law. I know Arabs have a harder time getting planning permission to build new houses, thats a big human rights thing, one that I've worked on a bit. But nobody said that Israel was perfect...
again, please comment if you think I'm wrong.
Josh
e-mail:
osh_josh_bgosh@nospam.hotmail.com
can we get rid of this thing about bias
30.05.2002 14:18
in actuality, even a suposedly unbiased approach is no guarantee of 'objectivity', which is what i asume you hope to get. take for example, the BBC, which assures us of its unbiased approach, but in practice we find that the debate revolves around a nexus which ultimately suits the british establishment in general (some elements of it will of course complain). the pretence at unbias can actually be at worst, quite totalitarian, and at best a more subtle propaganda than the blatant falsification type we know.
politics is objective at the academic level, but as soon as the human factor emerges, one cannot be entirely without bias, and the history of the great radical journalists (such as muggerige and orwell, now continued by fisk and pilger) proves that far from hiding 'bias', all one has to do is make clear ones opinions and report honestly. take for example karl marx, who while analysing capitalism 'objectively', obviously thought that the future socialilst society would be a truly human one, and therefore, preferable. he was 'biased' without resorting to falsfication. likewise, i believe a palestinian free state will be preferable to israeli occupation, but i dont need anyone to cater for my bias; to want that is rather immature, and partially accounts for the massive sales of rag-papers like the sun, which cater for the opinions of the uneducated.
for example, i personally reject the zionst israel position absolutely, so when i read the israeli press, i dont expect to find a pro-palestinian argument; why on earth should i ? equally, there is no reason for our complaining chum to expect too many pro- israel arguments on this website. theres no need.
bill bore
ON THE "ONE-STATE SOLUTION"
30.05.2002 15:41
_______________
Josh has failed to grasp that opposition to the idea of a Jewish State, or a Zionist State, does not necessarily mean you oppose the right of Jews to live in the middle east.
Socialists oppose Israel because it is based on giving a certain ethnic/religious group (Jews) a privileged position against other ethnic/religious groups who inhabit that state. Israel defines itself through a law passed through the Knesset as the State of the world-wide Jewish people rather than defining itself as the State of its citizens (who happen to be 20% non-Jewish).
92% of the land in Israel is designated as being for Jewish use only, and their is a series of laws and practices in Israel today that render Palestinians within Israel as 2nd Class citizens.
Socialists oppose the idea of a "Jewish State", just as they oppose the idea of an Islamic State. Socialists are internationalists, and believe in States where everyone whatever race, or religion they might be has the right to participate fully in the democracy. For Socialists to accept Israel, it would have to redefine itself as an Israeli-state, and end it's discriminatory practices against ethnic minorities.
When the PLO called for the destruction of Israel, they were calling for the overthrow of a State based on racist principles, that was also engaged in an ilegal occupation.
However, unlike Hamas they weren't advocating it's replacement with an Islamic State, nor an Arab state.
In their documents Post-1967 they clearly state that they call for "One, Secular, Democratic, State of Palestine", that is a state where Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists would live side, by side with equal rights.
This idea of "One, Secular, Democratic State of Palestine" is similar to the idea of a Binational state that was proposed in the 1930's by Jewish writers such as Martin Buber, Judah Magnes, Hanah Arendt, Ahad Ha-am etc.
It would be a State where Jews and Arabs would have their rights respected.
Israel and its supporters have constantly deliberately misrepresented this call for a Binational state to replace Israel & the occupied territories as Palestinians wanting to drive Jews into the sea.
Against the negative call for "Two peoples-Two states", the ideal of a One-State solution is based on the idea that Jews and Arabs can live together in peace and reconcilliation, and don't need to be segregated.
However, today the PLO now has dropped it call for a Bi-National state for Arabs and Jews, and now looks to form a state on the West Bank and Gaza Strip, side by side, with Israel (and hopefully to gain the right of return for Palestinian refugees).
I personally still favour the One, State solution.
PS. I mentioned the Holocaust because the Israeli writer mentioned it! Often Zionists seem to think that somehow the horific injustice committed against Jews in Europe is an excuse to commit an injustice against the Palestinians in the name of Justice for the Jews.
ANTONIUS CLIFFUS JNR.
Israeli-Palestinians (Not Arabs)
30.05.2002 16:01
Why do Zionists always refer to Palestinians living within Israel (i.e not on the occupied territories) as Israeli-Arabs?
Whenever I read newspaper articles, or books that contain interviews with Arabs living in Israel, they always refer to themselves as Palestinians, so I have adopted their terminology, not that of the oppressor.
Also. . .
Every Jewish person I have met seems quite uninformed about the status of Arabs within Israel. Why is this?
Incidentally,
A Palestinian friend of mine, told me that just south of Nablus there are 2000 Jews who call themselves Palestinian Jews.
ANTONIUS CLIFFUS JNR.
POSTSCRIPT
30.05.2002 16:07
ANTONIUS
...
30.05.2002 18:31
I don't think that a one-state solution will work in our generation, or even the next. There's too much hate spilling around. This is going to affect even a two-state solution - Hamas will continue its attacks, but hopefully the attacks will decrease. I can see where you're coming from, I think that in principle you are right, but it would never work with the political and cultural environment now.
Israel defined as a Jewish state doesn't rule out the rights of other people to live there, its just a place for any Jew to call home if they have no other. If you, a Christian I presume, want to move to Israel, you will have the same chance of becoming a citizen as someone arriving in England. Speaking of which, if you rely on information about Israel from British Jews you're a bit naive. Its like asking rich Brits who go to Kenya for safari trips about the situation there. British Jews go to posh hotels in Netanya or Tel Aviv or central Jerusalem, of course they dont know shit about Israeli-Arabs. I doubt they know about the problems of Ethopian Jews, or the environmental problems, or anything about the economy. Like I said, for the most part you don't see Arabs around anymore. For some the only Arab culture they meet is on the national TV channel (dunno how you call it - like the BBC here), which has half its broadcasts in Arabic to cater for Arab Muslim and Arab Jewish viewers.
Some Israeli-Arabs call themselves Palestinians, and some don't. Here's the quote I misquoted before from the Haaretz article about the Arabs of Arabeh:
"Arabeh's Ohel Shalom (Tent of Peace), a restaurant-guest house with an unusual sculpted stone facade, has closed down. "Why doesn't Sharon want a Palestinian state beside Israel? Because he is not a real man. He loves drinking blood more than making peace," proclaims Abu Lutuf, raising his voice as the young people who have gathered around him laugh bitterly. "I am proud to be an Arab in Israel. What's good for the state is good for me, and what's bad for it is bad for me. I am an inseparable part of this state, and I was here before Sharon. I'd rather live in a tent in Arabeh than in a palace in Syria.
"This is my land," says Abu Lutuf, as the conversation moves to transfer, a topic that has become an obsession in the Arab street. "I was born here. Ask any of these old folks if they are prepared to budge from here. No. You see? We will die here. Every clod of earth is ours."
"So why did you sell it?" interjects a young man. "It's the rich people - not us," replies Abu Lutuf. "They sold their land and ran off to Lebanon and Syria with their heads filled with fantasies. As far as I'm concerned, they can stay there. I'm against allowing the refugees to come back. Why on earth should they?" "
Some Arabs identify with the Palestinians, I think they have the right to, as long as they dont aid with attacks (like a Jewish girl did in Rishon!!!) Call them what you want. Whatever makes you happy
Josh
e-mail:
osh_josh_bgosh@nospam.hotmail.com