Ali Abunimah answering questions on Palestine
Dr | 16.05.2002 19:05
Ali Abunimah is a writer and commentator on Middle East and Arab-American affairs. Abunimah recently co-founded The Electronic Intifada, a resource for media activists and journalists researching the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He is also a contributor to The New Intifada, the first book on the Palestinian uprising (Verso, 2001). A resident of Chicago, Abunimah travels often to the Middle East and is a full-time researcher in social policy at the University of Chicago, where he is studying the social networks and resources of low-income Palestinian families living all over the world. Submit your questions to Ali Abunimah on what it takes to stop the violence between Israel and the Palestinians.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oxford, England: In view of the Likud decision to oppose the formation of a Palestinian state, do you expect President Bush to stick to his policy of two states living side by side?
Ali Abunimah: (More to come....)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York City, New York : Dear Ali. When the Palestinian state gets established groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad will surely continue their terror against the Israelis. Will you fight this injustice as hard as you now fight the injustice of Ariel Sharon and friends? And in that case, how many Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians etc do you think would join you? Hope this will get through. Thanks a lot.
Ali Abunimah: I have always spoken out very clearly against all violence directed at civilians, including attacks on Israeli civilians. These attacks must stop immediately. I think what needs to be added is that it would be utter naivete or deliberate deception not to recognize that these attacks against civilians are fueled by Israel's brutal military rule through violence of 3.5 million Palestinian civilians which has resulted in 1,500 Palestinians killed over the past 18 months. You cannot rule millions of people by brutal force, collective punishment and torture and not expect that some are going to react with violence. The only alternative to the violence is a political process who clear aim is a total end to the Israeli occupation--very quickly--with guarantees of the security and freedom of both peoples.
No doubt that there will always be some Palestinians who oppose peace and reconciliation with Israelis, just as there are Israeli extremists who oppose any compromise with Palestinians and who advocate expelling all the Palestinians from their homes. These extremists, like Effie Eytam, currently have seats in the Israeli cabinet. But we must not allow these voices to dictate what we do. I am convinced that when the occupation ends and Palestinians are given their freedom, most of the violence will end, because the thing that is fueling it will have ended. If you don't want to take the risk that ending military oppression of millions of peace will end violence, then you can live with the certainty that keeping the status quo will perpetuate and aggravate the violence. Take your pick.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren, Michigan: How come the Israeli democratic state opens the door to any jew in the world to become an Israeli citizen while native palestinian refugees couldn't go back to their own homes and property?
Ali Abunimah: Because Israel is a state that grants rights based on ethnicity and religion, not based on citizenship. The so-called "Law of Return" applied only to people recognized as Jews. So, a person who is Jewish who has never set foot in Israel has the right to come, get instant citizenship, receive a job, subsidies, a home etc, whereas a Palestinian born in Palestine, who owns his own home or farm there has no right to go back to his home. This is of course a gross injustice that violates the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 13 of which declares that any person has the right to leave his country and return to his country.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detroit, Michigan: Why Palestinians didn't think that what was offered at Camp David 2001 was a good deal?
Ali Abunimah: The deal Barak offered at Camp David was really just a formula for continued Israeli military occupation under the name of a "state."
It would have meant no territorial contiguity for the Palestinian state, no control of its external borders, limited control of its own water resources, and no full Israeli withdrawal from occupied territory.
The Barak plan would have included continued Israeli military control over large segments of the West Bank, including almost all of the Jordan Valley; codified the right of Israeli forces to be deployed in the Palestinian state at short notice; meant the continued presence of fortified Israeli settlements and Jewish-only roads in the heart of the Palestinian state; and required nearly 4 million Palestinian refugees to relinquish their fundamental human rights in exchange for compensation to be paid not by Israel but by the "international community."
At best, Palestinians could expect a kind of super-autonomy within a "Greater Israel", rather than independence, and the devolution of some municipal functions in the parts of Jerusalem inhabited by Palestinians, under continued overall Israeli control.
Despite this offer, Palestinians continued with the negotiations in Washington, and then in Taba until January 2001, when Ehud Barak broke them off. It has always been the position of the Palestinian Authority that they are ready to immediately continue negotiations from where they left off, but Israel has refused this. It is very clear that Sharon, who has vowed never to dismantle a single Israeli colony, and who has accelerated the pace of construction in the occupied territories is even less interested than ending the occupation than Barak was.
You have to remember that the West Bank and Gaza Strip together constitute only 22% of historic Palestine--only 22% of the country that had an overwhelming Palestinian majority on the eve of the creation of Israel. For Palestinians, accepting a state in such a small fraction of their homeland is an enormous historic compromise that they have been willing to make. But it seems even this is not enough for Israel that still wants to seize and annex more of what little land is left for the Palestinians to live on. That's just not fair.
I have written a longer analysis of what happened at Camp David and afterwards, with more documentation which you can read
HERE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacksonville Fla: The Palestinian Pro Hitler comments over the last couple of weeks could not have helped the Palestinian PR people. With talk like that, how can you convince the world that the Palestinians are the victim and not Israeli.
Ali Abunimah: What are you talking about? Are you sure you are in the right chat room?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Austin, TX: Nowadays we refer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, years ago it was the Arab-Israeli conflict. Do you feel that the significance of this is great or small? The other Arab nations seem to have taken a low risk stance, whereby they are rhetorically with the Palestinians but offer little material support.
Ali Abunimah: I think the Arab states have taken a high risk stance, the stance of supporting comprehensive peace, with normal relations and full recognition of Israel. It is high risk because Israel maintains a totally rejectionist position, and its actions are causing extreme anger in Arab public opinion. So in fact it takes some courage for Arab leaders to make such far reaching and so far unreciprocated compromises towards Israel. Note that this weekend, while Prime Minister Sharon's party was busy voting to reject a Palestinian state, Presidents Mubarak, Assad and Crown Prince Abdallah met in Egypt and reaffirmed their commitment to peace with Israel and their rejection of all forms of violence. The contrast could not be greater.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment from Ali Abunimah: I'm sorry I accidentally deleted the question from Bethesda, MD about what the Likud Central Committee vote against a Palestinian state means, so here is my answer anyway: I think that the vote simply brings Likud official policy into line with Likud practice. Sharon is as opposed to Palestinian self-determination as anyone else in his party, which is why he is accelerating the pace of construction of Jewish-only colonies in the Occupied Territories. The reason he does not like this vote is that it focuses world attention on the true reason for lack of peace, which is Israeli rejectionism. Sharon prefers to change the subject and pretend the roots of the conflict are elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Worthington Ohio: It's obvious the two can't and will never play well together. So my question is why have other Arab Nations not offered up some land to create a Palestinian State? If they cared at all you would think they would.
Ali Abunimah: Why do you think Palestinians want to be ethnically cleansed from their homeland and moved somewhere else? If things were so simple, why has the United States not offered up some of its land to create a Jewish state? People have a right to live in their own lands, and no one has a right to force them to go elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Westchester, NY: Much talk is heard about Arafat not being a "partner" for peace. Does the solution to this conflict have anything to do with Arafat or is it more about the realities regarding Israel's occupation, settlements and the denial of the Israelis to recognize Palestinian human and political rights?
Ali Abunimah: You hit an important point. When Arafat was playing along with the Israelis and basically doing their dirty work of policing the Palestinian people while Israel continued to seize their land for Jewish-only settlements, he was a partner and Nobel Prize winner. Now that he is no longer playing by Israel's rules, he has been transformed back into a "terrorist." Of course Arafat is neither the problem nor the solution. When he is gone, all the apparatus of oppression--the tens of thousands of Israeli troops and the hundreds of thousands of settlers will still be there, as will the will of the Palestinian people to resist them. Nothing at all will change when Arafat is gone. I expect though that Israeli government spokesmen will accuse Arafat of continuing to give orders to terrorists from beyond the grave. Perhaps by Ouiji board?
But seriously, a report released today by the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem says that Israeli settlers in the Occupied West Bank control 41.9% of the land, even though they ARE ONLY 15 per cent of the population. As long as these Apartheid-like conditions persist, we cannot expect the conflict to go away.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roanoke, Virginia: In 1987-88 Israel funded the rise and development of Hamas. Several months ago Hamas declared "total war" on Israel. Now we see Hamas conducting another major bombing in Israel, this time at a pool hall. Regardless, Sharon has yet to go after the top leadership of Hamas, hitting the infrastructure of Palestine instead. Now that Arafat speaks against Hamas, Sharon calls off retaliation by his army and is now demanding Arafat, not he, take on Hamas. How is one to understand this triangular relationship?
Ali Abunimah: Sharon needs Hamas and Hamas needs Sharon. Sharon's goal is to totally discredit the idea of peace, and to systematically destroy the civil and social infrastructure of Palestinian society so there can be no Palestinian state. How else can one understand the deliberate destruction of water, electricity and roads, the uprooting of hundreds of thousands of trees, the destruction of the Palestinian education ministry, census bureau, land registry, airport and port and so on? At the same time, Sharon is assassinating and discrediting the Palestinian leadership that recognized Israel and offered it peace, and strengthening the radical groups like Hamas, so he can turn around to the Israeli people and say "there are no peace partners, only fanatics who want to destroy us, and our only option is conquest and force."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rockville, MD: The Palestinians claim that Israel is on occupied territory. Israel claims that the land was won during the war in 1967 and International law states that land won during war time is legal. Is this really occupation or is Israel illegaly occupying the land? Thanks
Ali Abunimah: Your question is a little unclear, but if you are asking how international law views Israel's military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, then the answer is very clear.. UN Security Council Resolution 242 on which the peace process is premised and which was passed right after the 1967 war emphasizes "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." Numerous Security Council resolutions have repeatedly stressed that Israel's occupation must end, and that its settlement policy is illegal. For example, UN Security Council Resolution 476 "Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;" And of course the United States as every country in the international community has stressed that Israel's occupation must end.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skokie, IL: Why is everyone so focused on Arafat? What role, if any, can he play on future "talks" or peace-making efforts?
Ali Abunimah: Because it is easier and more politically acceptable to reduce the issue to Arafat than to focus on the real issues: Israel's absolute refusal to end its military occupation and to reciprocate to the Arab states' offer to live side by side in peace.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chicago, il: Do you think an interim UN presence in '67 borders would stop the violence coming from Israel, and if yes, would it stop the humiliation and denigration palestinians are exposed to if they are ever allowed to enter israel again.
Ali Abunimah: I think an international presence is desperately needed, and would do much to stop the human rights violations against Palestinians. We have seen how in Hebron a relatively small international observer team has helped to prevent the sort of Israeli assault we have seen in cities like Nablus, Ramallah and Jenin. Israel has always rejected any international presence, because it knows that its activities would be under much greater scrutiny. But I am afraid the situation is not promising: Israel brazenly blocked the UN Security Council-mandated investigation into what happened in Jenin refugee camp, and the Security Council has done nothing. Just compare that to what Iraq has suffered for allegedly refusing to cooperate with UN-mandated investigators!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chicago, IL: What can Palestinians do in the occupied territories to move towards democratically elected officials, and reduce corruption within the PA. How long do you think this will take, and is it solely dependent on Israel's withdrawal from the territories.
Ali Abunimah: Under total siege and military occupation, very little. Democracy requires freedom of movement, freedom of education, freedom to work, freedom to speak. Under Israeli military rule Palestinians have none of these things. Of course when the Palestinian Authority had some control of a small fraction of the occupied territories, it was not exactly democratic either. But even if Arafat had been a perfect democrat, the Palestinian Authority could never be truly representative because its main purpose was not to provide for the needs of the Palestinian people, but rather to provide security for Israeli occupation forces and settlers. Hence to a great extent it was set up to work against basic interests of the Palestinian people. Such an arrangement could work during a transitional period while the occupation is dismantled, but as it has become clear that Israel has no intention of dismantling the occupation, the Palestinian Authority is in an impossible position. It can neither protect its people against Israel, nor protect Israel against Palestinian resistance.
But Palestinians always demanded democracy from the Palestinian Authority. Their demands however fell on deaf ears in the West, because at that time Arafat was going along with Israel's plans. Now that he is no longer doing so it has become fashionable in the US to talk about "reform" of the Palestinian Authority. Well, now there is not much left to reform because over the past 18 months, Israel has systematically destroyed the civil infrastructure of the Palestinians. I think that a genuine Palestinian democracy can only be built when there is an end to Israeli military occupation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doylestown, PA: Can there be peace and freedom in the Middle East without more democracy/liberalism and less dictatorship and state control over freedoms?
Ali Abunimah: Of course there must be democracy and freedom for all the people in the Middle East, and that includes in Arab states where democratic freedoms range from few to none. But it is important to remember that both Egypt and Jordan, neither of which are very democratic (although it would also be wrong to call them 'dictatorships' have maintained peace treaties with Israel that have withstood the toughest shocks). We also need the United States to support democracy in the Middle East instead of supporting as it does now Israeli military rule over millions of Palestinians, and Arab regimes that are not democratic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington, D.C.: Let's tell the truth: That Yasser Arafat is a terrorist thug who masterminded the kidnapping and execution of the Israeli athletes in Munich, hijackings, bombings, etc.
Ali Abunimah: Ok, let's tell the truth: Ariel Sharon is being pursued for war crimes including the massacre of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Beirut in 1982 (see indictsharon.net. His entire career has been based on the premise that the only way to communicate with Arabs is to kill and murder them in as large numbers as you can get away with.
As bad as Sharon is, this conflict is not about him, and not about Arafat. When either or both of them are gone, the conflict will be there. This is a structural conflict: 4.8 million Israeli Jews rule over 4.8 million Palestinians who have few rights (in the case of Palestinian citizens of Israel) or no rights whatsoever (in the case of Palestinians in the occupied territories). As long as that is not addressed, there will be no peace.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta, GA: What can Jewish-Americans in the United States do the help the peace process along??
Ali Abunimah: They need to make clear that the increasingly hawkish line coming from mainstream American Jewish organizations, and the unconditional support for Israel's current policies does not represent them. They have to demand that these groups condemn Israel's violence against Palestinians, instead of always trying to deny, justify and rationalize it. They must speak out when the values of their great faith, Judaism, which is at root about justice, are used to justify injustice and oppression.
They can get involved in the growing number of Jewish groups around the country that support peace with justice and reconciliation. I know of one here in Chicago called Not In My Name
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta-GA: How can we help to bring awareness to the average American citizen about the illegal Israeli occupation? What can be done on the local and national levels. Thank you
Ali Abunimah: A lot, and a lot is being done. Simply speaking out, hosting speakers, writing letters to the editor, visiting members of congress, holding peace rallies. This is important work. Sometimes it doesn't feel like much, but it adds up. All the recent opinion polls show that opinion in the US is becoming more and more even-handed, which means the message is getting through. I co-founded the website Electronic Intifada which we hope offers some useful ideas, including tips on media activism. My own website, www.abunimah.org provides examples of the sorts of things I do.
Above all, don't lose hope. Peace with justice will come.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Il: Does the world have to wait until both sides(the Palestinians and the Israelis) wipe each other out or is there a real chance for peace in the middle east in our life time
Ali Abunimah: I very much hope not. Unfortunately the world does have to wait until the US administration decides that the global, strategic and moral cost of allowing this bloodshed to continue is greater than the political and electoral cost of challenging the very powerful, determined and instransigent pro-Israeli lobby which demands total and uncritical loyalty from our elected politicians. We need to support those few (but growing) members of Congress who dared to speak out against the extremely pro-Israeli resolutions which were passed recently, in favor of justice and peace. We need to demand that the US stop fuelling the bloodshed by providing so many billions of dollars of weaponry to Israel--unconditionally. How can the US be an "honest broker" whe it is actively intervening in this conflict on the Israeli side?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta: Is there any moral equivalence (not historical) between the Holocaust and what’s happening in the West Bank and Gaza? How would you answer those who say “Don’t dare to even compare”? Is there much difference between two miserable people, aren’t we all holocaust victims?
Ali Abunimah: You cannot weigh and compare human suffering like flour in sack. For the Palestinian family whose child is killed, land taken away and house demolished, that is a personal holocaust, as it is for the Israeli family whose son or daughter is killed in cafe or a bus.
While there are obvious differences between the Palestinian experience of suffering and the Nazi Holocaust against the Jews, Catholics, Gays, Roma and others, we ought to look for commonalities that help us understand eachother's pain and history.
What is most offensive is those who misuse the memory of those murdered by the Nazis to justify Israel's colonization and expulsion of the Palestinians, or to shield Israel from criticism. Hence the grotesque spectacle of Elie Wiesel using his status as a Holocaust survivor and author to campaign for total backing for the Sharon government.
I have always been against those who try to distort, minimize or deny the true horror and extent of what the Nazis did to the Jews and others, but sadly many of those who consider themselves the guardians of that memory are also most active in promoting denial of the history of what happened to the Palestinians. This is unacceptable as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ogallala, Nebraska: How do you view the present situation. Now that the Likud has voted against the formation of a Palestinian state. The World could be looking at an impossible fixable solution. Perhaps we just let the war take place and whoever wins out controls the area. This would not be a viable solution either. Your thoughts please.
Ali Abunimah: The international community has a responsibility. This conflict is not taking place within one country, but in Occupied Territories which the United Nations Security Council has determined must be returned to their inhabitants as part of a comprehensive peace. If any one party refuses to go along with this, the international community has a responsibility to enforce its will. We need to see seriously international intervention to compel Israel to stop building colonies and to end its military occupation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ft. Benning GA: Mr. Abunimah, after an eye opening reading of a book called Arabs and Israel For Beginners a few years ago(which changed my perspective that had been shaped by American media), I have been continually frustrated and angered at our media's coverage of current Mideast events. Fortunately however, I stumbled across your website and now have an alternate/intelligent source for monitoring events. It seems that a lot of the time when discussing Palestinian/Israeli events, mainstream TV news will have commentators on both sides of the issues (appearing to be impartial). Unfortunately, most of the time it seems, the Israeli commentators are much more competent at explaining their side and sometimes the debate is anything but enlightening. My hope is that you might use your knack for thoughtful, intelligent, well informed/spoken exchanging of ideas on a wider platform. I believe that a simple lack of understanding by American people of the situation in the Mideast is our biggest problem and that if more effective spokespeople like yourself were given opportunities on national TV, more Americans would embrace justice for the Palestinian People.
Ali Abunimah: Thank you for your comments and suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York,NY: Why were there no suicide attacks from Palestinians since 1967 when Israel won the West Bank and Gaza in a war of defense till the 1990's when Arafat got control of part of the area during the Oslo process?
Ali Abunimah: The occupation has become more and more oppressive over time, and Palestinian resistance has built up to it over time. We have seen both Israelis and Palestinians murdering each other in ever greater numbers with ever more lethal weapons. On the Israeli side you have tens of thousands of occupation troops using tanks, Apache helicopters, F-16s and so on, and on the Palestinian side you went from rocks to rifles, and for some Palestinians suicide bombs. If only both sides could put this genius for destructive technologies into something useful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
albany, ny: Please talk about our politicians that support Israel at any cost/price! How can the US be an impartial broker when you have people like Tom Delay supporting racist removal policies?
Ali Abunimah: You may be referring to Dick Armey, the House Republican leader who recently openly and emphatically advocated the ethnic cleansing of the all the Palestinians. Of course this is totally outrageous, and these politicians need to hear from us. For more on his statements, click here
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta: What do you think of the recent article by Professor Martin van Creveld where he outlined a possible plan for expelling all Palestinians from the West Bank? Is it some sort of psychological war fare or a real possibility? Do Dick Armey remarks on MSNBC plan to prepare the American public to accept this transfer?
Ali Abunimah: Talk of "Transfer"--basically ethnic cleansing--has become more and more common in Israel even among government ministers, and is now infecting American media and political dialogue about this. What is strange is the total silence and failure to condemn this from mainstream pro-Israeli organizations like AIPAC and the ADL who claim they support peace. Surely people who support peace must speak out forcefully against ethnic cleansing!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quincy, Mass: Why does the US media fail to report the multiple, daily violence of Israel troops against Palestinian Civilians? The French media alone reports daily abuses and killings, even when the US media is saying there is some sort of "lull" in the violence.
Ali Abunimah: There are many reasons, more than we have time to go into here, but you make a good point. I encourage people to read international newspapers like The Guardian and The Independent, and the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, all of which provide much better coverage than we get from most papers here. All have websites.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Culver City, California: Mr. Abunimah, I am dismayed and disturbed, to say the least, at the media view on Palestinians as terrorists and subhuman, how can we hold them accountable and responsible for this?
Ali Abunimah: See electronicintifada.net !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Portland, Oregon: Did the 100,000 who rallied for peace have any effect on Israel's decision not to invade Gaza?
Ali Abunimah: It is hard to tie it to any specific decision without specific evidence, but what is beyond dispute is that public opinion is changing in the US. The rally was both the result of that, and will be the cause of further change. People are losing the fear to speak out about Israel. They are no longer afraid of being slandered as anti-Semites and Jew-haters merely for speaking their minds on human rights, foreign aid and foreign policy when it comes to Israel. We see this reflected even in newspaper editorials, many of which are starting to adopt more even-handed views.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota, MN: Is there ANYTHING being done about Jenin? Or is all hope lost about uncovering the truth?
Ali Abunimah: It is a great disappointment that the US helped Israel to cover up what happened in Jenin, and that the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan meekly rolled over in the face of Israeli obstinacy. I would have expected to see more forceful action. But now it is clear from the reports of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch that there is evidence of serious war crimes in Jenin, which explains Israel's eagerness to cover it all up. I know that human rights groups are still doing their best to collect evidence from Jenin. There are a number of US eyewitnesses who have been to Jenin, and who are available to speak about what they saw (contact Voices in the Wilderness
info@vitw.org)
The truth will come out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buffalo, NY: Israel and the jews have in my opinion the only right to this land. Arabs moved into it after the jews were forced from it. It IS NOT Arab land. It is anything but. I dont know who became so dilusional that this land in any way shape or form is Arab land. You all should get through your thick skulls and realize this. And what on earth are any Arabs what so ever doing anywere near the Church of the Nativity is what I would also like to know.
Ali Abunimah: I think this is a perfect example of the ethnic cleansing mentality, and the denial of the existence of 8 million Palestinians.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huntington Woods, Michigan: Is it true that the founders of the Israeli state like Mehahim Begin, Shamir and Sharon commited attrocities, killing civilians and burning hotels? Would that be called terrorist acts.
Ali Abunimah: Absolutely. You can read all about it in books like "Righteous Victims" by the Israeli historian Benny Morris, among others.
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oxford, England: In view of the Likud decision to oppose the formation of a Palestinian state, do you expect President Bush to stick to his policy of two states living side by side?
Ali Abunimah: (More to come....)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York City, New York : Dear Ali. When the Palestinian state gets established groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad will surely continue their terror against the Israelis. Will you fight this injustice as hard as you now fight the injustice of Ariel Sharon and friends? And in that case, how many Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians etc do you think would join you? Hope this will get through. Thanks a lot.
Ali Abunimah: I have always spoken out very clearly against all violence directed at civilians, including attacks on Israeli civilians. These attacks must stop immediately. I think what needs to be added is that it would be utter naivete or deliberate deception not to recognize that these attacks against civilians are fueled by Israel's brutal military rule through violence of 3.5 million Palestinian civilians which has resulted in 1,500 Palestinians killed over the past 18 months. You cannot rule millions of people by brutal force, collective punishment and torture and not expect that some are going to react with violence. The only alternative to the violence is a political process who clear aim is a total end to the Israeli occupation--very quickly--with guarantees of the security and freedom of both peoples.
No doubt that there will always be some Palestinians who oppose peace and reconciliation with Israelis, just as there are Israeli extremists who oppose any compromise with Palestinians and who advocate expelling all the Palestinians from their homes. These extremists, like Effie Eytam, currently have seats in the Israeli cabinet. But we must not allow these voices to dictate what we do. I am convinced that when the occupation ends and Palestinians are given their freedom, most of the violence will end, because the thing that is fueling it will have ended. If you don't want to take the risk that ending military oppression of millions of peace will end violence, then you can live with the certainty that keeping the status quo will perpetuate and aggravate the violence. Take your pick.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren, Michigan: How come the Israeli democratic state opens the door to any jew in the world to become an Israeli citizen while native palestinian refugees couldn't go back to their own homes and property?
Ali Abunimah: Because Israel is a state that grants rights based on ethnicity and religion, not based on citizenship. The so-called "Law of Return" applied only to people recognized as Jews. So, a person who is Jewish who has never set foot in Israel has the right to come, get instant citizenship, receive a job, subsidies, a home etc, whereas a Palestinian born in Palestine, who owns his own home or farm there has no right to go back to his home. This is of course a gross injustice that violates the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 13 of which declares that any person has the right to leave his country and return to his country.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detroit, Michigan: Why Palestinians didn't think that what was offered at Camp David 2001 was a good deal?
Ali Abunimah: The deal Barak offered at Camp David was really just a formula for continued Israeli military occupation under the name of a "state."
It would have meant no territorial contiguity for the Palestinian state, no control of its external borders, limited control of its own water resources, and no full Israeli withdrawal from occupied territory.
The Barak plan would have included continued Israeli military control over large segments of the West Bank, including almost all of the Jordan Valley; codified the right of Israeli forces to be deployed in the Palestinian state at short notice; meant the continued presence of fortified Israeli settlements and Jewish-only roads in the heart of the Palestinian state; and required nearly 4 million Palestinian refugees to relinquish their fundamental human rights in exchange for compensation to be paid not by Israel but by the "international community."
At best, Palestinians could expect a kind of super-autonomy within a "Greater Israel", rather than independence, and the devolution of some municipal functions in the parts of Jerusalem inhabited by Palestinians, under continued overall Israeli control.
Despite this offer, Palestinians continued with the negotiations in Washington, and then in Taba until January 2001, when Ehud Barak broke them off. It has always been the position of the Palestinian Authority that they are ready to immediately continue negotiations from where they left off, but Israel has refused this. It is very clear that Sharon, who has vowed never to dismantle a single Israeli colony, and who has accelerated the pace of construction in the occupied territories is even less interested than ending the occupation than Barak was.
You have to remember that the West Bank and Gaza Strip together constitute only 22% of historic Palestine--only 22% of the country that had an overwhelming Palestinian majority on the eve of the creation of Israel. For Palestinians, accepting a state in such a small fraction of their homeland is an enormous historic compromise that they have been willing to make. But it seems even this is not enough for Israel that still wants to seize and annex more of what little land is left for the Palestinians to live on. That's just not fair.
I have written a longer analysis of what happened at Camp David and afterwards, with more documentation which you can read
HERE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacksonville Fla: The Palestinian Pro Hitler comments over the last couple of weeks could not have helped the Palestinian PR people. With talk like that, how can you convince the world that the Palestinians are the victim and not Israeli.
Ali Abunimah: What are you talking about? Are you sure you are in the right chat room?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Austin, TX: Nowadays we refer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, years ago it was the Arab-Israeli conflict. Do you feel that the significance of this is great or small? The other Arab nations seem to have taken a low risk stance, whereby they are rhetorically with the Palestinians but offer little material support.
Ali Abunimah: I think the Arab states have taken a high risk stance, the stance of supporting comprehensive peace, with normal relations and full recognition of Israel. It is high risk because Israel maintains a totally rejectionist position, and its actions are causing extreme anger in Arab public opinion. So in fact it takes some courage for Arab leaders to make such far reaching and so far unreciprocated compromises towards Israel. Note that this weekend, while Prime Minister Sharon's party was busy voting to reject a Palestinian state, Presidents Mubarak, Assad and Crown Prince Abdallah met in Egypt and reaffirmed their commitment to peace with Israel and their rejection of all forms of violence. The contrast could not be greater.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment from Ali Abunimah: I'm sorry I accidentally deleted the question from Bethesda, MD about what the Likud Central Committee vote against a Palestinian state means, so here is my answer anyway: I think that the vote simply brings Likud official policy into line with Likud practice. Sharon is as opposed to Palestinian self-determination as anyone else in his party, which is why he is accelerating the pace of construction of Jewish-only colonies in the Occupied Territories. The reason he does not like this vote is that it focuses world attention on the true reason for lack of peace, which is Israeli rejectionism. Sharon prefers to change the subject and pretend the roots of the conflict are elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Worthington Ohio: It's obvious the two can't and will never play well together. So my question is why have other Arab Nations not offered up some land to create a Palestinian State? If they cared at all you would think they would.
Ali Abunimah: Why do you think Palestinians want to be ethnically cleansed from their homeland and moved somewhere else? If things were so simple, why has the United States not offered up some of its land to create a Jewish state? People have a right to live in their own lands, and no one has a right to force them to go elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Westchester, NY: Much talk is heard about Arafat not being a "partner" for peace. Does the solution to this conflict have anything to do with Arafat or is it more about the realities regarding Israel's occupation, settlements and the denial of the Israelis to recognize Palestinian human and political rights?
Ali Abunimah: You hit an important point. When Arafat was playing along with the Israelis and basically doing their dirty work of policing the Palestinian people while Israel continued to seize their land for Jewish-only settlements, he was a partner and Nobel Prize winner. Now that he is no longer playing by Israel's rules, he has been transformed back into a "terrorist." Of course Arafat is neither the problem nor the solution. When he is gone, all the apparatus of oppression--the tens of thousands of Israeli troops and the hundreds of thousands of settlers will still be there, as will the will of the Palestinian people to resist them. Nothing at all will change when Arafat is gone. I expect though that Israeli government spokesmen will accuse Arafat of continuing to give orders to terrorists from beyond the grave. Perhaps by Ouiji board?
But seriously, a report released today by the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem says that Israeli settlers in the Occupied West Bank control 41.9% of the land, even though they ARE ONLY 15 per cent of the population. As long as these Apartheid-like conditions persist, we cannot expect the conflict to go away.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roanoke, Virginia: In 1987-88 Israel funded the rise and development of Hamas. Several months ago Hamas declared "total war" on Israel. Now we see Hamas conducting another major bombing in Israel, this time at a pool hall. Regardless, Sharon has yet to go after the top leadership of Hamas, hitting the infrastructure of Palestine instead. Now that Arafat speaks against Hamas, Sharon calls off retaliation by his army and is now demanding Arafat, not he, take on Hamas. How is one to understand this triangular relationship?
Ali Abunimah: Sharon needs Hamas and Hamas needs Sharon. Sharon's goal is to totally discredit the idea of peace, and to systematically destroy the civil and social infrastructure of Palestinian society so there can be no Palestinian state. How else can one understand the deliberate destruction of water, electricity and roads, the uprooting of hundreds of thousands of trees, the destruction of the Palestinian education ministry, census bureau, land registry, airport and port and so on? At the same time, Sharon is assassinating and discrediting the Palestinian leadership that recognized Israel and offered it peace, and strengthening the radical groups like Hamas, so he can turn around to the Israeli people and say "there are no peace partners, only fanatics who want to destroy us, and our only option is conquest and force."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rockville, MD: The Palestinians claim that Israel is on occupied territory. Israel claims that the land was won during the war in 1967 and International law states that land won during war time is legal. Is this really occupation or is Israel illegaly occupying the land? Thanks
Ali Abunimah: Your question is a little unclear, but if you are asking how international law views Israel's military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, then the answer is very clear.. UN Security Council Resolution 242 on which the peace process is premised and which was passed right after the 1967 war emphasizes "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." Numerous Security Council resolutions have repeatedly stressed that Israel's occupation must end, and that its settlement policy is illegal. For example, UN Security Council Resolution 476 "Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;" And of course the United States as every country in the international community has stressed that Israel's occupation must end.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skokie, IL: Why is everyone so focused on Arafat? What role, if any, can he play on future "talks" or peace-making efforts?
Ali Abunimah: Because it is easier and more politically acceptable to reduce the issue to Arafat than to focus on the real issues: Israel's absolute refusal to end its military occupation and to reciprocate to the Arab states' offer to live side by side in peace.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chicago, il: Do you think an interim UN presence in '67 borders would stop the violence coming from Israel, and if yes, would it stop the humiliation and denigration palestinians are exposed to if they are ever allowed to enter israel again.
Ali Abunimah: I think an international presence is desperately needed, and would do much to stop the human rights violations against Palestinians. We have seen how in Hebron a relatively small international observer team has helped to prevent the sort of Israeli assault we have seen in cities like Nablus, Ramallah and Jenin. Israel has always rejected any international presence, because it knows that its activities would be under much greater scrutiny. But I am afraid the situation is not promising: Israel brazenly blocked the UN Security Council-mandated investigation into what happened in Jenin refugee camp, and the Security Council has done nothing. Just compare that to what Iraq has suffered for allegedly refusing to cooperate with UN-mandated investigators!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chicago, IL: What can Palestinians do in the occupied territories to move towards democratically elected officials, and reduce corruption within the PA. How long do you think this will take, and is it solely dependent on Israel's withdrawal from the territories.
Ali Abunimah: Under total siege and military occupation, very little. Democracy requires freedom of movement, freedom of education, freedom to work, freedom to speak. Under Israeli military rule Palestinians have none of these things. Of course when the Palestinian Authority had some control of a small fraction of the occupied territories, it was not exactly democratic either. But even if Arafat had been a perfect democrat, the Palestinian Authority could never be truly representative because its main purpose was not to provide for the needs of the Palestinian people, but rather to provide security for Israeli occupation forces and settlers. Hence to a great extent it was set up to work against basic interests of the Palestinian people. Such an arrangement could work during a transitional period while the occupation is dismantled, but as it has become clear that Israel has no intention of dismantling the occupation, the Palestinian Authority is in an impossible position. It can neither protect its people against Israel, nor protect Israel against Palestinian resistance.
But Palestinians always demanded democracy from the Palestinian Authority. Their demands however fell on deaf ears in the West, because at that time Arafat was going along with Israel's plans. Now that he is no longer doing so it has become fashionable in the US to talk about "reform" of the Palestinian Authority. Well, now there is not much left to reform because over the past 18 months, Israel has systematically destroyed the civil infrastructure of the Palestinians. I think that a genuine Palestinian democracy can only be built when there is an end to Israeli military occupation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doylestown, PA: Can there be peace and freedom in the Middle East without more democracy/liberalism and less dictatorship and state control over freedoms?
Ali Abunimah: Of course there must be democracy and freedom for all the people in the Middle East, and that includes in Arab states where democratic freedoms range from few to none. But it is important to remember that both Egypt and Jordan, neither of which are very democratic (although it would also be wrong to call them 'dictatorships' have maintained peace treaties with Israel that have withstood the toughest shocks). We also need the United States to support democracy in the Middle East instead of supporting as it does now Israeli military rule over millions of Palestinians, and Arab regimes that are not democratic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington, D.C.: Let's tell the truth: That Yasser Arafat is a terrorist thug who masterminded the kidnapping and execution of the Israeli athletes in Munich, hijackings, bombings, etc.
Ali Abunimah: Ok, let's tell the truth: Ariel Sharon is being pursued for war crimes including the massacre of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Beirut in 1982 (see indictsharon.net. His entire career has been based on the premise that the only way to communicate with Arabs is to kill and murder them in as large numbers as you can get away with.
As bad as Sharon is, this conflict is not about him, and not about Arafat. When either or both of them are gone, the conflict will be there. This is a structural conflict: 4.8 million Israeli Jews rule over 4.8 million Palestinians who have few rights (in the case of Palestinian citizens of Israel) or no rights whatsoever (in the case of Palestinians in the occupied territories). As long as that is not addressed, there will be no peace.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta, GA: What can Jewish-Americans in the United States do the help the peace process along??
Ali Abunimah: They need to make clear that the increasingly hawkish line coming from mainstream American Jewish organizations, and the unconditional support for Israel's current policies does not represent them. They have to demand that these groups condemn Israel's violence against Palestinians, instead of always trying to deny, justify and rationalize it. They must speak out when the values of their great faith, Judaism, which is at root about justice, are used to justify injustice and oppression.
They can get involved in the growing number of Jewish groups around the country that support peace with justice and reconciliation. I know of one here in Chicago called Not In My Name
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta-GA: How can we help to bring awareness to the average American citizen about the illegal Israeli occupation? What can be done on the local and national levels. Thank you
Ali Abunimah: A lot, and a lot is being done. Simply speaking out, hosting speakers, writing letters to the editor, visiting members of congress, holding peace rallies. This is important work. Sometimes it doesn't feel like much, but it adds up. All the recent opinion polls show that opinion in the US is becoming more and more even-handed, which means the message is getting through. I co-founded the website Electronic Intifada which we hope offers some useful ideas, including tips on media activism. My own website, www.abunimah.org provides examples of the sorts of things I do.
Above all, don't lose hope. Peace with justice will come.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Il: Does the world have to wait until both sides(the Palestinians and the Israelis) wipe each other out or is there a real chance for peace in the middle east in our life time
Ali Abunimah: I very much hope not. Unfortunately the world does have to wait until the US administration decides that the global, strategic and moral cost of allowing this bloodshed to continue is greater than the political and electoral cost of challenging the very powerful, determined and instransigent pro-Israeli lobby which demands total and uncritical loyalty from our elected politicians. We need to support those few (but growing) members of Congress who dared to speak out against the extremely pro-Israeli resolutions which were passed recently, in favor of justice and peace. We need to demand that the US stop fuelling the bloodshed by providing so many billions of dollars of weaponry to Israel--unconditionally. How can the US be an "honest broker" whe it is actively intervening in this conflict on the Israeli side?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta: Is there any moral equivalence (not historical) between the Holocaust and what’s happening in the West Bank and Gaza? How would you answer those who say “Don’t dare to even compare”? Is there much difference between two miserable people, aren’t we all holocaust victims?
Ali Abunimah: You cannot weigh and compare human suffering like flour in sack. For the Palestinian family whose child is killed, land taken away and house demolished, that is a personal holocaust, as it is for the Israeli family whose son or daughter is killed in cafe or a bus.
While there are obvious differences between the Palestinian experience of suffering and the Nazi Holocaust against the Jews, Catholics, Gays, Roma and others, we ought to look for commonalities that help us understand eachother's pain and history.
What is most offensive is those who misuse the memory of those murdered by the Nazis to justify Israel's colonization and expulsion of the Palestinians, or to shield Israel from criticism. Hence the grotesque spectacle of Elie Wiesel using his status as a Holocaust survivor and author to campaign for total backing for the Sharon government.
I have always been against those who try to distort, minimize or deny the true horror and extent of what the Nazis did to the Jews and others, but sadly many of those who consider themselves the guardians of that memory are also most active in promoting denial of the history of what happened to the Palestinians. This is unacceptable as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ogallala, Nebraska: How do you view the present situation. Now that the Likud has voted against the formation of a Palestinian state. The World could be looking at an impossible fixable solution. Perhaps we just let the war take place and whoever wins out controls the area. This would not be a viable solution either. Your thoughts please.
Ali Abunimah: The international community has a responsibility. This conflict is not taking place within one country, but in Occupied Territories which the United Nations Security Council has determined must be returned to their inhabitants as part of a comprehensive peace. If any one party refuses to go along with this, the international community has a responsibility to enforce its will. We need to see seriously international intervention to compel Israel to stop building colonies and to end its military occupation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ft. Benning GA: Mr. Abunimah, after an eye opening reading of a book called Arabs and Israel For Beginners a few years ago(which changed my perspective that had been shaped by American media), I have been continually frustrated and angered at our media's coverage of current Mideast events. Fortunately however, I stumbled across your website and now have an alternate/intelligent source for monitoring events. It seems that a lot of the time when discussing Palestinian/Israeli events, mainstream TV news will have commentators on both sides of the issues (appearing to be impartial). Unfortunately, most of the time it seems, the Israeli commentators are much more competent at explaining their side and sometimes the debate is anything but enlightening. My hope is that you might use your knack for thoughtful, intelligent, well informed/spoken exchanging of ideas on a wider platform. I believe that a simple lack of understanding by American people of the situation in the Mideast is our biggest problem and that if more effective spokespeople like yourself were given opportunities on national TV, more Americans would embrace justice for the Palestinian People.
Ali Abunimah: Thank you for your comments and suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York,NY: Why were there no suicide attacks from Palestinians since 1967 when Israel won the West Bank and Gaza in a war of defense till the 1990's when Arafat got control of part of the area during the Oslo process?
Ali Abunimah: The occupation has become more and more oppressive over time, and Palestinian resistance has built up to it over time. We have seen both Israelis and Palestinians murdering each other in ever greater numbers with ever more lethal weapons. On the Israeli side you have tens of thousands of occupation troops using tanks, Apache helicopters, F-16s and so on, and on the Palestinian side you went from rocks to rifles, and for some Palestinians suicide bombs. If only both sides could put this genius for destructive technologies into something useful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
albany, ny: Please talk about our politicians that support Israel at any cost/price! How can the US be an impartial broker when you have people like Tom Delay supporting racist removal policies?
Ali Abunimah: You may be referring to Dick Armey, the House Republican leader who recently openly and emphatically advocated the ethnic cleansing of the all the Palestinians. Of course this is totally outrageous, and these politicians need to hear from us. For more on his statements, click here
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta: What do you think of the recent article by Professor Martin van Creveld where he outlined a possible plan for expelling all Palestinians from the West Bank? Is it some sort of psychological war fare or a real possibility? Do Dick Armey remarks on MSNBC plan to prepare the American public to accept this transfer?
Ali Abunimah: Talk of "Transfer"--basically ethnic cleansing--has become more and more common in Israel even among government ministers, and is now infecting American media and political dialogue about this. What is strange is the total silence and failure to condemn this from mainstream pro-Israeli organizations like AIPAC and the ADL who claim they support peace. Surely people who support peace must speak out forcefully against ethnic cleansing!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quincy, Mass: Why does the US media fail to report the multiple, daily violence of Israel troops against Palestinian Civilians? The French media alone reports daily abuses and killings, even when the US media is saying there is some sort of "lull" in the violence.
Ali Abunimah: There are many reasons, more than we have time to go into here, but you make a good point. I encourage people to read international newspapers like The Guardian and The Independent, and the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, all of which provide much better coverage than we get from most papers here. All have websites.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Culver City, California: Mr. Abunimah, I am dismayed and disturbed, to say the least, at the media view on Palestinians as terrorists and subhuman, how can we hold them accountable and responsible for this?
Ali Abunimah: See electronicintifada.net !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Portland, Oregon: Did the 100,000 who rallied for peace have any effect on Israel's decision not to invade Gaza?
Ali Abunimah: It is hard to tie it to any specific decision without specific evidence, but what is beyond dispute is that public opinion is changing in the US. The rally was both the result of that, and will be the cause of further change. People are losing the fear to speak out about Israel. They are no longer afraid of being slandered as anti-Semites and Jew-haters merely for speaking their minds on human rights, foreign aid and foreign policy when it comes to Israel. We see this reflected even in newspaper editorials, many of which are starting to adopt more even-handed views.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota, MN: Is there ANYTHING being done about Jenin? Or is all hope lost about uncovering the truth?
Ali Abunimah: It is a great disappointment that the US helped Israel to cover up what happened in Jenin, and that the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan meekly rolled over in the face of Israeli obstinacy. I would have expected to see more forceful action. But now it is clear from the reports of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch that there is evidence of serious war crimes in Jenin, which explains Israel's eagerness to cover it all up. I know that human rights groups are still doing their best to collect evidence from Jenin. There are a number of US eyewitnesses who have been to Jenin, and who are available to speak about what they saw (contact Voices in the Wilderness
info@vitw.org) The truth will come out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buffalo, NY: Israel and the jews have in my opinion the only right to this land. Arabs moved into it after the jews were forced from it. It IS NOT Arab land. It is anything but. I dont know who became so dilusional that this land in any way shape or form is Arab land. You all should get through your thick skulls and realize this. And what on earth are any Arabs what so ever doing anywere near the Church of the Nativity is what I would also like to know.
Ali Abunimah: I think this is a perfect example of the ethnic cleansing mentality, and the denial of the existence of 8 million Palestinians.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huntington Woods, Michigan: Is it true that the founders of the Israeli state like Mehahim Begin, Shamir and Sharon commited attrocities, killing civilians and burning hotels? Would that be called terrorist acts.
Ali Abunimah: Absolutely. You can read all about it in books like "Righteous Victims" by the Israeli historian Benny Morris, among others.
--------------------------------------------------------
Dr