Eyewitness Update - Bethlehem
Z | 16.04.2002 20:12
Sarah is a member of the internationl solidarity movement from Manchester. She has been in the west bank for the last month..
Received: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:04:07
it's a hot, muggy evening in bethlehem, and smoke is cloaking the hill over beit jala. some of it is rubbish fires, but some of us looks very thick and like it's from something bigger. always a worry, smoke.
the idf are attacking the church of the nativity this evening. we've been expecting it for so long, but to know it's happening now is so painful. they've eliminated the only press witnesses by barring them from the top floor of the star. there are flares going off regularly over the sniper positions above al-azza camp, and loads of gunfire. i'm not sure if the apaches are still around, but there is an idf drone (an unmanned observation aircraft) buzzing around. they are revolting little things; they make a high-pitched whine and when it's dark you don't know what they can see with infrared or thermal imaging or whatever. locals report lots of explosions round the church and the possibility of gas being used to drive them out, and a rumour that a fire may have started in the church also. unconfirmed. note that a right-wing member of the knesset suggested several days ago, with no sense of irony, that the people in there be gassed out. what with the church and the arrests this afternoon and
a group of internationals got the shit kicked out of them in nablus today as well - poor, sweet mika was beaten till he bled, and one woman may have 2 broken fingers. they were punched, kicked and smashed in the ribs with rifle butts, all whilst trying to get food and medicine in to camps which have been closed military zones - under complete lockdown - for 4 days.
and in jenin internationals have been trying to get more aid and witnesses in, swathed in the reek of dead bodies.
meanwhile, powell and bush try to set up 'peace summits' without arafat. and over the illegal settlement (colony) of har gilo, overlooking bethlehem, they are celebrating israeli independence day with a firework display, the bangs of the rockets mingling with the sounds of civilians being shelled and shot.
s xxx
Z
Comments
Hide the following 6 comments
Take the terrorist side
17.04.2002 03:05
no fear
Stop living in fear
17.04.2002 03:08
mary
Arrogant scum
17.04.2002 04:39
C.M.
no fear
17.04.2002 16:54
internationalist
Homepage: http://www.palestinecampaign.org
Take the terrorist side - redux
17.04.2002 17:07
Also, per the point that "in the US but here are huge Pro-Israeli end the terrorism groups" - how many of those groups publicly admit Israel itself was created by terrorist groups, ones that smuggled arms from America?
The poster cites "radical countries which are know to be suicide bombers and terrorist." How are people oppressed by a militaristic country with nuclear bombs and hi-tech weaponry to fight back-- with flatulence? When Jews wanted a country and faced British tanks, they used bombs against both military and civilian targets. Why was that good, but evil for Arabs to do the same?
As for "Jews getting attacked and beat up even in the US," are we to care more about that than Arabs being attacked, beaten, starved and killed in America-supported Israel and its Oppressed Territories?
How odd. If an American temple has a sign painted on it we are to be outraged. But when whole Palestinian towns are demolished we're to do nothing?
To say that Jews were "Probably [attacked] by a bunch of Arabs" is like WWII Germans blaming Jews for any problems in the Fatherland.
When the writer says "If you people com near me I'll fucken kill you," he says what Arab freedom fighter say to aggressor Israelis.
Now, per "Long live Israel" - fine. Just say "Long live the new Palesinian state!", too. America just needs to stop backing one side: handing Israelis $17 million a day while Arabs live in squalor.
"Get rid of the real terrorist the suicide bombers---the 'Palestinians'," suggests the author. Isn't that what Nazis did with Jews-- got rid of elements they found "evil" too? Were the SS right to do so?
"I do not support any murder who kills for the reason of killing"- yet the poster lauds Israelis who kill for killing's sake.
"Israelis kill terrorist and maybe sometimes casualities are in the way" says NO FEAR. But Germans, too, swore they only killed Jews who "terrorized" Europe by their presence.
Also and again: Jews created terror groups to form Israel: Irgun, Hagannah, Palmach, Stern Gang, etc. Were the British correct to hunt them down? Was it okay for such "terrorists" to later become prime ministers of Israel?
"Stop the terrorist."
Stop the Occupation!
>Stop Hamas
Did the British stop the Hagannah?
At Masada Jews killed their own children. Were the Romans right to say that showed how anti-life, how death-loving Jews were?
Were the Jews in the Warsaw Intifada "terrorists," too?
Fify years ago, Jews were treated like modern-day Palestinians. They, too, were demonized. They, too, watched helplessly as Germans made "incursions" into their ghettos "arresting" the inhabitants. Nazis, like the IDF, collectively punished "terrorist" acts committed by resistance groups. "Good Germans" stood by while Jews were "transformed" into lampshades and soap.
Was all that acceptable? Was America wrong to try to stop the oppression? Should it have given Hitler more "time" to finish its "operation" against "trouble-making" Jews like its doing now to Sharon?
Pal of Stinians
Take the terrorist side - rebuttal
17.04.2002 17:11
Also, per the point that "in the US but here are huge Pro-Israeli end the terrorism groups" - how many of those groups publicly admit Israel itself was created by terrorist groups, ones that smuggled arms from America?
The poster cites "radical countries which are know to be suicide bombers and terrorist." How are people oppressed by a militaristic country with nuclear bombs and hi-tech weaponry to fight back-- with flatulence? When Jews wanted a country and faced British tanks, they used bombs against both military and civilian targets. Why was that good, but evil for Arabs to do the same?
As for "Jews getting attacked and beat up even in the US," are we to care more about that than Arabs being attacked, beaten, starved and killed in America-supported Israel and its Oppressed Territories?
How odd. If an American temple has a sign painted on it we are to be outraged. But when whole Palestinian towns are demolished we're to do nothing?
To say that Jews were "Probably [attacked] by a bunch of Arabs" is like WWII Germans blaming Jews for any problems in the Fatherland.
When the writer says "If you people com near me I'll fucken kill you," he says what Arab freedom fighter say to aggressor Israelis.
Now, per "Long live Israel" - fine. Just say "Long live the new Palestinian state!", too. America just needs to stop backing one side: handing Israelis $17 million a day while Arabs live in squalor.
"Get rid of the real terrorist the suicide bombers---the 'Palestinians'," suggests the author. Isn't that what Nazis did with Jews-- got rid of elements they found "evil" too? Were the SS right to do so?
"I do not support any murder who kills for the reason of killing"- yet the poster lauds Israelis who kill for killing's sake.
"Israelis kill terrorist and maybe sometimes casualities are in the way" says NO FEAR. But Germans, too, swore they only killed Jews who "terrorized" Europe by their presence.
Also and again: Jews created terror groups to form Israel: Irgun, Hagannah, Palmach, Stern Gang, etc. Were the British correct to hunt them down? Was it okay for such "terrorists" to later become prime ministers of Israel?
"Stop the terrorist."
Stop the Occupation!
>Stop Hamas
Did the British stop the Hagannah?
At Masada Jews killed their own children. Were the Romans right to say that showed how anti-life, how death-loving Jews were?
Were the Jews in the Warsaw Intifada "terrorists," too?
Fifty years ago, Jews were treated like modern-day Palestinians. They, too, were demonized. They, too, watched helplessly as Germans made "incursions" into their ghettos "arresting" the inhabitants. Nazis, like the IDF, collectively punished "terrorist" acts committed by resistance groups. "Good Germans" stood by while Jews were "transformed" into lampshades and soap.
Was all that acceptable? Was America wrong to try to stop the oppression? Should it have given Hitler more "time" to finish its "operation" against "trouble-making" Jews like its doing now to Sharon?
Pal of Stinians