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Eyewitness Update - Bethlehem

Z | 16.04.2002 20:12

Sarah is a member of the internationl solidarity movement from Manchester. She has been in the west bank for the last month..


Received: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:04:07

it's a hot, muggy evening in bethlehem, and smoke is cloaking the hill over beit jala. some of it is rubbish fires, but some of us looks very thick and like it's from something bigger. always a worry, smoke.

the idf are attacking the church of the nativity this evening. we've been expecting it for so long, but to know it's happening now is so painful. they've eliminated the only press witnesses by barring them from the top floor of the star. there are flares going off regularly over the sniper positions above al-azza camp, and loads of gunfire. i'm not sure if the apaches are still around, but there is an idf drone (an unmanned observation aircraft) buzzing around. they are revolting little things; they make a high-pitched whine and when it's dark you don't know what they can see with infrared or thermal imaging or whatever. locals report lots of explosions round the church and the possibility of gas being used to drive them out, and a rumour that a fire may have started in the church also. unconfirmed. note that a right-wing member of the knesset suggested several days ago, with no sense of irony, that the people in there be gassed out. what with the church and the arrests this afternoon and

a group of internationals got the shit kicked out of them in nablus today as well - poor, sweet mika was beaten till he bled, and one woman may have 2 broken fingers. they were punched, kicked and smashed in the ribs with rifle butts, all whilst trying to get food and medicine in to camps which have been closed military zones - under complete lockdown - for 4 days.

and in jenin internationals have been trying to get more aid and witnesses in, swathed in the reek of dead bodies.

meanwhile, powell and bush try to set up 'peace summits' without arafat. and over the illegal settlement (colony) of har gilo, overlooking bethlehem, they are celebrating israeli independence day with a firework display, the bangs of the rockets mingling with the sounds of civilians being shelled and shot.

s xxx

Z

Comments

Hide the following 6 comments

Take the terrorist side

17.04.2002 03:05

I just realized that europe uses palestinian( i prefer to call them jordanese or lebanese because most of them are they just claim to palestinian--thay are arab from the arab nation so they change there nationality to meet political agendas) Europe and obviously ireland uses cheap labor from these countries so they are getting a lot of pressure from the large arab communities in your countries ( I live in the US we get cheap labor mostly from all over the world not predominatly the Middle East) So this is why you people scream so much Politically Correct BS in your countries. You have been targeted by these terrorist before vso you live on nails trying to control these out of control brainwashed Muslums. I read all over the indynews abroad. We have here to in the US but here are huge Pro-Israeli end the terrorism groups here and a lot of the HUman Rights activists are Jewsish and they are concerned about the enemy the so called Palestinians. I feel much better after coming to this realization--of courcewe have the anti-government people who want to stop The US from funding other countries millitary. I am sorry that this has turned int o such a mess. What we need is alternative energy--non oil and no more cheap labor. People have to make a decent wage to live nad stop imporing cheap labor from radical countries which are know to be suicide bombers and terrorist. Stop living in fear of your neighbor in your own country. I read about Jews getting attacked and beat up even in the US. Probably by a bunch of Arabs. If you people com near me I'll fucken kill you. Long live Israel Get rid of the real terrorist the suicide bombers---the "Palestinians". Keep on doing what you people have been doing--obviously no one believes you even if they are humanitarians like myself but I do not support any murder who kills for the reason of killing. The Israelis kill terrorist and maybe sometimes casualities are in the way but this is rare and a shame. Stop the terrorist. Stop Hamas stop al what ever it is called, and stop the liberate palestine regime they are known terrrorist. They blow up things in Europe as well--you poeple are so scared and live in so much fear that you take the enemies side.. there is a difference in wanting to rehabilitate terrorist instead of killing them and actually supporting them. free israeli stop hate crimes against Jews. You cant get away with your tactics in the US. Stop living in fear. Free Israel stop hate crimes against Jews. You cant get away with your tactics in the US.

no fear


Stop living in fear

17.04.2002 03:08

just realized that europe uses palestinian( i prefer to call them jordanese or lebanese because most of them are they just claim to palestinian--thay are arab from the arab nation so they change there nationality to meet political agendas) Europe and obviously ireland uses cheap labor from these countries so they are getting a lot of pressure from the large arab communities in your countries ( I live in the US we get cheap labor mostly from all over the world not predominatly the Middle East) So this is why you people scream so much Politically Correct BS in your countries. You have been targeted by these terrorist before vso you live on nails trying to control these out of control brainwashed Muslums. I read all over the indynews abroad. We have here to in the US but here are huge Pro-Israeli end the terrorism groups here and a lot of the HUman Rights activists are Jewsish and they are concerned about the enemy the so called Palestinians. I feel much better after coming to this realization--of courcewe have the anti-government people who want to stop The US from funding other countries millitary. I am sorry that this has turned int o such a mess. What we need is alternative energy--non oil and no more cheap labor. People have to make a decent wage to live nad stop imporing cheap labor from radical countries which are know to be suicide bombers and terrorist. Stop living in fear of your neighbor in your own country. I read about Jews getting attacked and beat up even in the US. Probably by a bunch of Arabs. If you people comne near me I'll kill you. LOng live Israel Get rid of the real terrorist the suicide bombers---the "Palestinians". Keep on doing what you people have been doing--obvously no one believes you even if they are humanitarians like myself but I do not support any murder who kills for the reason of killing. The Israelis kill terrorist and maybe sometimes casualities are in teh way but this is rare and a shame. Stop the terrorist. Stop Hamas stop al what ever it is called and stop the liberare palestine regime they are know terrrorist. They blow up things in Europe as well--you poeple are so scared and live in so much fear that you take the enmies side.. There is a difference in wanting to rehabilitate terrorist insead of killing them and actually supporting them. Free israeli stop hate crimes against Jews. You cant get away with your tactics in the US. Stop living in fear

mary


Arrogant scum

17.04.2002 04:39

You have no perspective with which to comment. Perhaps if you had lived in a Palestinian refugee camp for the last couple decades you would be more informed. Those people aren't banking. They are poor and afraid for their lives everyday. The death toll on the Palestinian side is more than three times the amount on the Israeli side! If that doesn't clearly illustrate Israeli aggression I do not know what does.

C.M.


no fear

17.04.2002 16:54

We're not being politically correct and we're not being intimidated by Muslims. We support the Palestinians because they're under occupation, oppressed and killed.

internationalist
- Homepage: http://www.palestinecampaign.org


Take the terrorist side - redux

17.04.2002 17:07

It's hard to understand what poster NO FEAR means. S/he claims "most of them are they just claim to palestinian." Does the poster mean it like most Israelis also "claim" to be Jews? His/her assertion that "they change there nationality to meet political agendas" certainly can be said of Israelis whose "Who is a Jew?" query determines who can fill THEIR country.

Also, per the point that "in the US but here are huge Pro-Israeli end the terrorism groups" - how many of those groups publicly admit Israel itself was created by terrorist groups, ones that smuggled arms from America?

The poster cites "radical countries which are know to be suicide bombers and terrorist." How are people oppressed by a militaristic country with nuclear bombs and hi-tech weaponry to fight back-- with flatulence? When Jews wanted a country and faced British tanks, they used bombs against both military and civilian targets. Why was that good, but evil for Arabs to do the same?

As for "Jews getting attacked and beat up even in the US," are we to care more about that than Arabs being attacked, beaten, starved and killed in America-supported Israel and its Oppressed Territories?

How odd. If an American temple has a sign painted on it we are to be outraged. But when whole Palestinian towns are demolished we're to do nothing?

To say that Jews were "Probably [attacked] by a bunch of Arabs" is like WWII Germans blaming Jews for any problems in the Fatherland.

When the writer says "If you people com near me I'll fucken kill you," he says what Arab freedom fighter say to aggressor Israelis.

Now, per "Long live Israel" - fine. Just say "Long live the new Palesinian state!", too. America just needs to stop backing one side: handing Israelis $17 million a day while Arabs live in squalor.

"Get rid of the real terrorist the suicide bombers---the 'Palestinians'," suggests the author. Isn't that what Nazis did with Jews-- got rid of elements they found "evil" too? Were the SS right to do so?

"I do not support any murder who kills for the reason of killing"- yet the poster lauds Israelis who kill for killing's sake.

"Israelis kill terrorist and maybe sometimes casualities are in the way" says NO FEAR. But Germans, too, swore they only killed Jews who "terrorized" Europe by their presence.

Also and again: Jews created terror groups to form Israel: Irgun, Hagannah, Palmach, Stern Gang, etc. Were the British correct to hunt them down? Was it okay for such "terrorists" to later become prime ministers of Israel?

"Stop the terrorist."

Stop the Occupation!

>Stop Hamas

Did the British stop the Hagannah?

At Masada Jews killed their own children. Were the Romans right to say that showed how anti-life, how death-loving Jews were?

Were the Jews in the Warsaw Intifada "terrorists," too?

Fify years ago, Jews were treated like modern-day Palestinians. They, too, were demonized. They, too, watched helplessly as Germans made "incursions" into their ghettos "arresting" the inhabitants. Nazis, like the IDF, collectively punished "terrorist" acts committed by resistance groups. "Good Germans" stood by while Jews were "transformed" into lampshades and soap.

Was all that acceptable? Was America wrong to try to stop the oppression? Should it have given Hitler more "time" to finish its "operation" against "trouble-making" Jews like its doing now to Sharon?

Pal of Stinians


Take the terrorist side - rebuttal

17.04.2002 17:11

It's hard to understand what poster NO FEAR means. S/he claims "most of them are they just claim to palestinian." Does the poster mean it like most Israelis also "claim" to be Jews? His/her assertion that "they change there nationality to meet political agendas" certainly can be said of Israelis whose "Who is a Jew?" query determines who can fill THEIR country.

Also, per the point that "in the US but here are huge Pro-Israeli end the terrorism groups" - how many of those groups publicly admit Israel itself was created by terrorist groups, ones that smuggled arms from America?

The poster cites "radical countries which are know to be suicide bombers and terrorist." How are people oppressed by a militaristic country with nuclear bombs and hi-tech weaponry to fight back-- with flatulence? When Jews wanted a country and faced British tanks, they used bombs against both military and civilian targets. Why was that good, but evil for Arabs to do the same?

As for "Jews getting attacked and beat up even in the US," are we to care more about that than Arabs being attacked, beaten, starved and killed in America-supported Israel and its Oppressed Territories?

How odd. If an American temple has a sign painted on it we are to be outraged. But when whole Palestinian towns are demolished we're to do nothing?

To say that Jews were "Probably [attacked] by a bunch of Arabs" is like WWII Germans blaming Jews for any problems in the Fatherland.

When the writer says "If you people com near me I'll fucken kill you," he says what Arab freedom fighter say to aggressor Israelis.

Now, per "Long live Israel" - fine. Just say "Long live the new Palestinian state!", too. America just needs to stop backing one side: handing Israelis $17 million a day while Arabs live in squalor.

"Get rid of the real terrorist the suicide bombers---the 'Palestinians'," suggests the author. Isn't that what Nazis did with Jews-- got rid of elements they found "evil" too? Were the SS right to do so?

"I do not support any murder who kills for the reason of killing"- yet the poster lauds Israelis who kill for killing's sake.

"Israelis kill terrorist and maybe sometimes casualities are in the way" says NO FEAR. But Germans, too, swore they only killed Jews who "terrorized" Europe by their presence.

Also and again: Jews created terror groups to form Israel: Irgun, Hagannah, Palmach, Stern Gang, etc. Were the British correct to hunt them down? Was it okay for such "terrorists" to later become prime ministers of Israel?

"Stop the terrorist."

Stop the Occupation!

>Stop Hamas

Did the British stop the Hagannah?

At Masada Jews killed their own children. Were the Romans right to say that showed how anti-life, how death-loving Jews were?

Were the Jews in the Warsaw Intifada "terrorists," too?

Fifty years ago, Jews were treated like modern-day Palestinians. They, too, were demonized. They, too, watched helplessly as Germans made "incursions" into their ghettos "arresting" the inhabitants. Nazis, like the IDF, collectively punished "terrorist" acts committed by resistance groups. "Good Germans" stood by while Jews were "transformed" into lampshades and soap.

Was all that acceptable? Was America wrong to try to stop the oppression? Should it have given Hitler more "time" to finish its "operation" against "trouble-making" Jews like its doing now to Sharon?

Pal of Stinians