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what is postmodernism?

christopher spence | 21.03.2002 15:21

I don't get post-modernism. I'm not sure whether its just an intellectual way of saying 'whatever I or anyone else thinks, we might be wrong'. If you take this too seriously doesn't it have some dangerous implications?

My understanding of post-modernism is that it says that there is no objective reality, just partial knowlege or 'truths'. Am I right? If so, how does that work? Doesn't it mean that postmodernists can't accuse people who deny the existence of the holocaust of being factually incorrect?

christopher spence

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Yes, thats the problem

21.03.2002 17:16

like so many other terms in current use, its extremely vague, and of course, the vaguer the term, the more difficult to criticise it. Im automatically suspiucious of any term which affixs the word "new" or "post". They somehow reduce or negate the term itself; "new" tends to apply to political movements, mostly dangerous, and "post" to general cultural phenomena, mostly derivative in style. I think intuition is extremely important in both politics and general culture; if it feels stultifying and stale, it probably is. If the new Tate Modern is the Future, i Dont like it...

A Triffid


Yes, thats the problem

21.03.2002 17:16

like so many other terms in current use, its extremely vague, and of course, the vaguer the term, the more difficult to criticise it. Im automatically suspiucious of any term which affixs the word "new" or "post". They somehow reduce or negate the term itself; "new" tends to apply to political movements, mostly dangerous, and "post" to general cultural phenomena, mostly derivative in style. I think intuition is extremely important in both politics and general culture; if it feels stultifying and stale, it probably is. If the new Tate Modern is the Future, i Dont like it...

A Triffid


it sucks, read this

21.03.2002 18:14

post-modernism is a poor second rate concept, and is a threat to reason and rational debate. if i had my traditional marxist hat on then i'd say it's an invetion of capitalism to create false class conciousness and make people abandon 'grand' theories such as marxism and anarchism that threaten societies basic structure.

although the sociological side of it and the actual term 'post-modernism' really kicked off in the 70's/80's it has its roots in post-war cultural and artistic movements and the confusion of ideologies and cultures at this time.

the basic premise is that becuase there is such a plurality in society that it would be wrong to chose one over the other and every theory/opinion is as valid as another. thats why its such a vague term becuase it can cover any discipline that involves the formulating of ideas.

hardcore post-modernists would say we can't trust science, religion, maths, philosophy, or other subjects that make universal assumptions.

my personal opinion is that it was created by people who couldn't cope with ideological struggle so dedcided to turn there back on it.

anyway, it is all crap becuase it has like the hugest logical floor! its basic axiom, its foundation is that there can be no overreaching, all encopmassing theories. so how the hell does post-modernism justify itself! surely IT IS an all encompassing theory! it disapears in a puff of its own logic. how do post-modernist sociologists (unfortunatley i know a few) justify there well paid university posts!?

euan
mail e-mail: euanholloway@hotmail.com


Now it gets interesting...

21.03.2002 18:32

I would maintain that we are actually living in a Post-democracy, which is clearly some kind of remnant, a symptom of general decline. I suggest this holds true in the arts as well. If everythings "post", this does imply that there's no future, and that is the death of the arts. Im not sure its deliberately concocted to fool the masses, because i dont think they were EVER much taken with obscure arts or political theory [Trotsky made a similar observation]. I rather suspect its come about to cover up the aimlessness of those who gave up on progressive ideas but had nothing to put in their place...
I personally am quite interested in the FUTURISTS. At least they had some cofidence about things...

a Triffid


postmodernism

21.03.2002 23:00

I love the concept of postmodernism, summed up by Lyotards famous description of it as "an incredulity towards metanarratives".
One of the fundamentals, is that there is no single reality, that is to say, that we all have / make our own different versions of reality... this is where the idea that "anything goes" comes from. Think about it, whatever point of view anyone has, there is always another...
Some of the most interesting pm stuff is in the area of linguistics and semiotics. Lanuage defines our realities, what we say, describe, etc, yet lanuage is NOT reality, it can never adequately describe what we see or feel...
Lyotard talks of lanuage games, where all dialogues confirm to sets of rules or formats... like writing an essay for a uni course... you have to follow certain criteria, a format.
Arrrgggghhh, not enough time now, feel free to email me if you want specific info or to get into specifics....

ps
Language is such, that any statement of fact can be refuted!

steve bubble
mail e-mail: steve_bubble@hotmail.com


Postmodernism is not the be all and end all

22.03.2002 07:43

At this moment people are working to overturn this cultural dilemma. What will happen is that postmodernism will be followed by a brief period of cultural chaos. Postmodernism is not the end or death of art. Think left-Futurism.

catabolic_kid


My thoughts...

22.03.2002 15:16

I don't claim to be any kind of an expert on post-modernism, but do have some thoughts:

No single reality? Why not, just because everyone has a different interpretation of it varying depending on culture/experiences/ideology etc. doesn't mean that the reality being interpreted changes.

All post-modernism is, is a bunch of pretentious sods tying themselves into intellectual knots. The fact that it discredits ideologies which challenge the system is just a happy coincidence for the capitalists/warmongers/fascists.

Disillusioned kid