ANTI HIERARCHY! (continued)
Ocalan III | 15.02.2002 00:07
"Lisa Simpson" said this:
"No we don't have anything in common with THEM [the swp]. THEY are authoritarians, we are not. Next you'll be suggesting we work with the Labour Party (you know, the ones THEY encourage us to vote for). You don't work with THEM. You work under THEIR control. THEY are an enemy of the working class because THEY don't come from among us. You work with THEM if you want, and see where it leads you. I don't intend to be part of another ditched SWP campaign. Action Plan, GR, ANL, Right to Work, Socialist Alliance, Stop the War ad infinitum. Whats the difference between a supermarket trolley and a SWP member? The supermarket trolley has a mind of it's own"
I say this:
Er... the comparison between the SWP and McNewLabour.co.uk is not a fair one.
The SWP actually wants to overthrow capitalism and replace it with something nicer.
Whereas NewLabour are in bed with the fat cats.
You can't honestly say that the SWP are in bed with the fat cats.
We are part of the same movement as the SWP. NewLabour is not.
The SWP does some good stuff.
Anyone who doesn't feel at ease being a member of the SWP should join some other organisation instead or just do your own thing. or whatever.
Anyone who does want to be in the SWP should go ahead and do so. Wherever you feel at home.
Obviously constructive criticism of any organisation is always a good idea but do make it constructive.
We're all in this together.. we're all on the same side.
Remember, the authorities WANT us to bicker and squabble amongst ourselves.
So let the SWP do their own thing and if their members are happy then that's ok. Anyone who's not happy with the way the SWP works should quit or try to change things. All organisations should strive to do things better but just because the SWP aren't perfect doesn't mean we should dismiss them. Our movement is stronger if we work together - not in a rigid hierarchical dictatorial way but just if organisations respect eachother and help each other out sometimes (whilst retaining their own autonomy). We should all strive to do these things without slagging eachother off.
We do have our differences but we all want to achieve the same basic goal - sure the devil is always in the detail but we all want to overthrow capitalism (or at least the kind of capitalism that we're increasingly living in these days) and replace it with something nicer. Don't let's be divided and ruled by the authorities who WANT us to squabble - don't let's give in to that temptation.
OCALAN III has spoken :-)
"No we don't have anything in common with THEM [the swp]. THEY are authoritarians, we are not. Next you'll be suggesting we work with the Labour Party (you know, the ones THEY encourage us to vote for). You don't work with THEM. You work under THEIR control. THEY are an enemy of the working class because THEY don't come from among us. You work with THEM if you want, and see where it leads you. I don't intend to be part of another ditched SWP campaign. Action Plan, GR, ANL, Right to Work, Socialist Alliance, Stop the War ad infinitum. Whats the difference between a supermarket trolley and a SWP member? The supermarket trolley has a mind of it's own"
I say this:
Er... the comparison between the SWP and McNewLabour.co.uk is not a fair one.
The SWP actually wants to overthrow capitalism and replace it with something nicer.
Whereas NewLabour are in bed with the fat cats.
You can't honestly say that the SWP are in bed with the fat cats.
We are part of the same movement as the SWP. NewLabour is not.
The SWP does some good stuff.
Anyone who doesn't feel at ease being a member of the SWP should join some other organisation instead or just do your own thing. or whatever.
Anyone who does want to be in the SWP should go ahead and do so. Wherever you feel at home.
Obviously constructive criticism of any organisation is always a good idea but do make it constructive.
We're all in this together.. we're all on the same side.
Remember, the authorities WANT us to bicker and squabble amongst ourselves.
So let the SWP do their own thing and if their members are happy then that's ok. Anyone who's not happy with the way the SWP works should quit or try to change things. All organisations should strive to do things better but just because the SWP aren't perfect doesn't mean we should dismiss them. Our movement is stronger if we work together - not in a rigid hierarchical dictatorial way but just if organisations respect eachother and help each other out sometimes (whilst retaining their own autonomy). We should all strive to do these things without slagging eachother off.
We do have our differences but we all want to achieve the same basic goal - sure the devil is always in the detail but we all want to overthrow capitalism (or at least the kind of capitalism that we're increasingly living in these days) and replace it with something nicer. Don't let's be divided and ruled by the authorities who WANT us to squabble - don't let's give in to that temptation.
OCALAN III has spoken :-)
Ocalan III
Comments
Hide the following 7 comments
just a point...
15.02.2002 10:08
replace it with something nicer."
Actually, if you bother to read Lenin and Trotsky,
their vision is not anti-capitalist and not
"something nicer." Lenin argued that state capitalism
was basically the same as socialism (socialism is
the former made to work for the people!). And they
means? Well, again reading Lenin and Trotsky, its
the seizure of power by the party. This soon became
(and remained!) the "dictatorship of the party."
I think its essential that we continue to debate the
differences between political tendencies. Only those
with crap politics would want to end discussion and
debate. As long, of course, as its honest discussion
-- something that the SWP seem incapable of when it
comes to anarchism -- for details visit:
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/append31.html
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/append34.html
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secH2.html
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secH6.html
http://www.infoshop.org/texts/iso.html
Only honest debate can ensure that we create a nicer
system. Its no coincidence that SWP members often
try and stop this by urging "unity" against the
common enemy (while selling papers and magazines
which contain laughable critiques of anarchism and
other ideas!).
anarcho
e-mail: anarcho@geocities.com
Homepage: http://www.anarchistfaq.org
Little Lisa again!
15.02.2002 11:00
Lisa Simpson
This is a comment
15.02.2002 12:43
http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=22585&group=webcast
and should reside there and not be a new newswire posting.
Pete
hey ho
15.02.2002 14:17
But Pete has a point. I'm getting bored of postings about the SWP and I'm in the SWP!
Might we all perhaps agree to give it a rest?
internationalist
re: comment... should reside there
15.02.2002 14:33
I put it here because the other comment is about to go out of view so no one will see it apart from people who read the extended newswire.
The title is clearly marked as "continued" and so anyone who doesn't want to follow this thread doesn't need to.
I'll post what I want, thanks :-)
As long as it's well labelled one shouldn't really have any need to complain :-)
As for the comment about let's not
To the person accusing me of wanting to stop talking about the SWP:
I'm not trying to stifle debate - we should debate the SWP, but I just think that we should be constructive and remember that whilst we do need to discuss our differences our first loyalties within the movement should be towards each other and against the establishment. The SWP are part of our movement. They are not the establishment - we can criticise them constructively WITHOUT having to DISOWN them :-)
OCALAN III has spoken (yet) again.
Ocalan III
Vegans of the world Unite!
15.02.2002 16:18
why don't you go back to munching your veggie burgers
and banging your Bongo's. Your attempts at creative
protest are soooooo lame, hardly 1968.
Sorry I can't write more, but I have a movement to
build, I've heard of the phrase armchair revolutionaries,
here's a new one, 'internet revolutionaries'
Antonius Cliffus
how long?
15.02.2002 16:52
Daniel Brett
e-mail: dan@danielbrett.co.uk