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GR funds and the SWP - Answers please!

Dan | 12.02.2002 11:03

Rather than just slagging me off or saying boring, yawn, can someone from the SWP just give a proper answer to why this has happened.

“I've recently heard that GR funds are being used to pay for a full-time activist who is, surprise surprise, an SWP member and one of their ex-organisers. If this is true this is yet another example of the SWP using GR as a front. Where was the democracy in this decision? I'm a GR member and was never consulted. These funds are raised by GR supporters and surely they should be consulted if a big chunk is gonna be spent on an SWP activist!!! As I said if this is true it's an outrage.”

I’m re-posting this because I genuinely want an answer. So we don’t have the tangents and misunderstandings from last time I’ll make some things extra clear.

I’m not some anarchist nut with the same name as me who comes on here all the time slagging off the SWP. This is the first time I’ve posted something on Indymedia.

The information about Guy Taylor getting £500 pm from GRs funds was not plucked out of thin air but from Guy Taylor himself.

The issue is not that GR shouldn’t have a paid activist or indeed that they shouldn’t be from the SWP. The issue is that no-one was consulted about the issue, not even the steering committee. The issue is that it is a disgrace that the SWP should decide to use GR funds to pay one of their activists out of funds that were raised for GR and not the SWP.

So rather than just the usual responses of…..yawn, boring, we don’t need this, get together and fight, go out and build demos, stop whinging etc etc, can someone from the SWP give us an answer as to why this happened. If GR is to grow then it can’t be an SWP front and this is a pretty clear example of that being the case.

Dan

Comments

Hide the following 27 comments

get stuffed

12.02.2002 12:01

to be quite honest i don't think indymedia is an appropriate forum for this posting. you might be outraged by the actions of the SWP but plenty of us are not going to be that surprised or interested in the bad smells coming from GR. the question is why should ever want to join such an disingenuous, mediocre and politically illiterate outfit. why waste your time? even worse, why try to waste any one elses times by getting them to join up with these cretinous fools. rather than giving out about some 'anarchist nut' i suggest you try taking on board the criticisms being made about GR and the SWP and leave indymedia for postings that offer material that is relevant to or serves the purposes of social and political revolution, for a world without authoritarian values or institutions, something sadly lacking from the agenda of the SWP. try looking up the link for a detailed critique of the GR, and how it is set up to undermine the anti-capitalist movement, not complement it.

another 'anarchist nutter'
- Homepage: http://www.schnews.org.uk/mr.htm


ARRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!

12.02.2002 12:15

Why does everyone just slag each other off rather than have a rational debate about what's going on. The "anarchist nut" phrase was from what an SWPer said about me when he mistook me for someone else, not my choice of words. But this is going off on a tangent again. I think Indymedia is an appropriate place to discuss trends in the anti-capitalist movement and like it or not we can't just pretend GR doesn't exist. All I want is an answer from the SWP about why this has happened. You might know GR is an SWP front but not everyone who reads Indymedia knows what goes on behind the scenes. Anyway I still hope for an answer to my questions but somehow doubt I'll get them.

Dan


Suggestion

12.02.2002 14:17

Dan, why don't you write to SWP and GR asking for an explanation? I mean seriously, If you're a paid up GR member then why not, it's your right to ask questions and get answers. Then maybe post the reply to indymedia, but just posting like this to indymedia is really a waste of space - why did you not just post this as a comment to the previous discussion. As said if you really want to speak to them then get in contact direct.

I mean I read Indymedia to get news, not to just slag off the bloody SWP.

-


I've tried!!!

12.02.2002 14:39

This is my last post for a while as I'm at work and will get the sack!!! Just to say that IndyMedia is mainly for news but also discussion. This honestly wasn't posted to slag off the SWP, I would genuinely like to see GR stop being an SWP front and am more than prepared to work with the SWP to do this. Believe me, me and others have tried to get answers time and time again. Someone did ask GR direct on the discussion group and got no answers. I've asked SWP organisers face to face and rather than give a reasoned arguement they just brush the issue under the carpet by telling you to stop being sectarian! (sorry I thought democracy was pretty important)The reason I posted this up here (twice) was out of frustration at the fact that I could never get an answer and thought that if it was brought into a wider audience they would be forced to give a sensible reply. Anyway I obviously won't get a reasoned reply, but ultimately I think it's ashame as stuff like this will just stop the movement from growing.

Dan


I've tried!!!

12.02.2002 14:39

This is my last post for a while as I'm at work and will get the sack!!! Just to say that IndyMedia is mainly for news but also discussion. This honestly wasn't posted to slag off the SWP, I would genuinely like to see GR stop being an SWP front and am more than prepared to work with the SWP to do this. Believe me, me and others have tried to get answers time and time again. Someone did ask GR direct on the discussion group and got no answers. I've asked SWP organisers face to face and rather than give a reasoned arguement they just brush the issue under the carpet by telling you to stop being sectarian! (sorry I thought democracy was pretty important)The reason I posted this up here (twice) was out of frustration at the fact that I could never get an answer and thought that if it was brought into a wider audience they would be forced to give a sensible reply. Anyway I obviously won't get a reasoned reply, but ultimately I think it's ashame as stuff like this will just stop the movement from growing.

Dan


Democracy IS Sectarian

12.02.2002 15:22

Dan,
you've tried to talk to the SWP, written to Guy Taylor, talked to your GR shop-steward, gone through all the levers of representative democracy open to you in the People's Interim Republic of Globalise Resistance. You've been *more* active than any prole should be. Now shut up and sell some papers.

Splitter


do it yourself, or else stop moaning

12.02.2002 15:43

Why do GR members keep putting up posts moaning that GR is being taken over by the SWP? GR was started by the SWP, it only exists because the SWP want it as a front. If you want a group of people to do anti-capitalist direct action without being governed from above, get together with other interested people and do yuor own thing. if you want to be a pawn in Leninist strategy, then just get on with it, but don't be surprised when thats what you are!

-


Wait a minute, Dan is Right !

12.02.2002 17:08

(2nd attempt at posting this)
if theres any hint of corruption, misapropraiatiuon of funds, even gross negligence, the left must examine it. the SWP and GR contiunally support the Commonwealth Office to get rid of the 'corrupt' mugabe from zimbabwe, but howabout getting rid of the corrupt SWP & GR from the socialist-alliance and the anti-capitalist movement first ?

Dan, dont get disheartened. If the anarchists cant see a valid critique of their GR opponents and dont wish to take it up, it isnt your fault. keep trying. it can take ages to get results on this site !

D Sposa Balincom


Info on steering group + swp debate inside gr

12.02.2002 17:19

All clear and in the public domain:

From  http://www.resist.org.uk

Globalise Resistance Steering Committee

The steering committee was elected at the first National Conference of GR in May 2001. The Committee meets every three weeks or so and organises the general running of GR, there are also groups working around different aspects of the work of GR, such as finance, RESIST (our newsletter), specific protests and mobilisations and other issues as they come up.

Local groups of Globalise Resistance also have their own committees and determine their own activity locally and co-ordinating with the national body.

Here is a list of the steering Committee members and their political affiliation (if any):


Chris Blake independent
Anna Bragga Green Party
Jamie Burton independent
Jeremy Dewar Workers Power
Sue Fishwick independent
Sue Jones SWP
Amy Jowett independent
Matti Kohenan independent (involved in ATTAC)
Becca Morahan independent
Jonathan Neale SWP
Chris Nineham SWP
Kruti Patel independent
Zuki Serper independent
Guy Taylor SWP
Dominic Teagle Green Party
Andy Yorke Workers Power

.........................


From GR Discussion Group:

Where is Globalise Resistance going?
 http://uk.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/globaliseresistance

A contribution to the discussion by Jeremy Dewar, member of the national Globalise Resistance Steering Committee

Despite our successes in drawing in new layers of activists and pulling off some impressive mobilisations (May Day, Genoa) and a higher profile in the media than any other single anti-capitalist group, Globalise Resistance
(GR) has not yet grown into a large dynamic network. Outside of London and, to a lesser extent, a few other cities and towns, GR barely exists at all.

Our task is to diagnose why this is and prescribe some remedies. GR's problems can be summarised as follows:

We concentrate too much on summit-hopping and lectures/film showings. We are not yet a "network based on direct action". Often we appear too centralised. At the moment GR is dominated - politically and organisationally - by the party that initiated it, the Socialist Workers Party (SWP).
The problem here is not the right of the SWP to push its politics in GR. All groups should have that right and I would claim the same for Workers Power.

We defend that right in GR and any other anti-capitalist campaign against the anarchist attacks on "Leninist parties". But we need to make sure we don't allow that right to become an automatic privilege for one party over all others.

- Our local organisations in towns and colleges have disappeared in many areas. Even where they do exist they don't have enough of the dynamism and DIY panache that has made the anti-capitalist movement in other countries such a success.

- Other wings of the movement remain suspicious of GR. While NGOs and anti-globalisation activists may enter joint actions, the attempt to set up Attac in the UK reveals their unease at working with an umbrella group that has a high proportion of revolutionary socialists in it. The anarchist and libertarian wing of the movement has broken off all relations and attacked GR as an SWP front in the red-baiting pamphlet Monopolise Resistance.

- We have failed to spread the anti-capitalist movement - either broaden it by drawing in thousands more youth, or deepen it by drawing in thousands of organised trade unionists.

How do we strengthen GR? How do we take real steps towards the objectives we have set ourselves? Here are a few suggestions....

that's all that fits.

check out the website or email for full text: www.workerspower.com email  paper@workerspower.com
to subscribe to the e-newsletter.

.....................

Continued text from workers power website:


- Any revival of GR must start by transforming our base organisations. GR should set itself up as a network for local anti-capitalist, environmentalist, anti-racist/fascist, internationalist and trade unionist campaigns, groups and even individuals to use. Regular GR meetings should combine political discussion - not just lectures, but debates, videos, Question Time formats, teach-ins, real workshops (i.e. open-ended brainstorming sessions which may lead to actual campaigning ideas) - and preparing for direct action-style campaigns.

- GR must be a direct action-based network. People will not join and remain active participants in an anti-capitalist network which only provides transport for big demos and gets speakers from around the world to large counter-conferences. It must have a staple diet of campaigning activity to sustain and nourish it, to draw in and activate ever wider layers - and, crucially, to combat capitalism!

All GR groups, especially new ones, should be encouraged to support No Sweat, which is ideal because you can take action on any high street. But it shouldn’t be the only or main activity of GR groups. GR groups should develop our own campaigning ideas and network with others to do stunts and actions. GR must be decentralised in this sense.

- It is not essential - or even desirable - for every campaign or action taken up by GR to have the GR brand. Where a pre-existing campaign is calling for support for a particular struggle then GR should build support without trying to take it over. Where a local injustice or piece of blatant hypocrisy needs to be exposed, build an alliance with other interested parties under a neutral name open to all. When building for big events like Genoa or May Day or responding to international developments like the war against “terrorism” or the Argentinian uprising, form a new committee with GR plugged into it. In other words, GR should be a network which can and should be plugged into other networks.

- Obviously some people will become GR enthusiasts. Excellent. But we should resist any attempt to turn GR into a party. We should remain an inclusive network where different parties and traditions can work together on commonly agreed goals. Of course, things happen which GR needs to take a position on - police violence on demos, civil disobedience tactics, the war against “terrorism”.

It would be ridiculous if GR was unable to respond to these events - in fact we would wither away if we didn’t. These positions should be taken by local GR groups and the national steering committee after a full discussion. What if this leads to different GR groups taking different positions? So what? It’s hardly the end of the world, and proves we’re a dynamic network, not a front organisation.

- A century of anti-capitalist struggle has seen bureaucratic monsters time and again rise up and strangle the movement, destroy its most militant elements and betray its cause - be that the USSR, or the leaderships of the mass trade unions and the modern social democratic and Labour parties.

Clearly GR is not faced by a threat on this scale and the SWP are not latter day versions of Stalin. But bureaucratism exists in all sorts of organisations. We’ve got to be aware of this and know how to combat it.

Bureaucracies don’t develop because some people are control freaks, power crazy or police agents. They develop because some people have greater opportunities and abilities than others and, in order to get things done, will short-circuit democratic debate, put things into action and then seek a democratic mandate, or even just do it “because it’s gotta be done and if I don’t do it nobody will”.

GR has not been immune to such pressures: from arranging platform speakers at events to printing up leaflets with prices set. These problems arise because the SWP is by far the largest organisation in the GR network and has placed full-time workers and numerous resources at GR’s disposal. Fine. But their responsibility ultimately rests with the SWP, not GR.

To combat this tendency we have to learn to walk on our own rather than rely on getting a piggy- back from someone who can already run. Let’s rotate the duties that confer control. Let’s put out fewer or less well designed newsletters and leaflets. Let’s wait another week before we make a decision that could not be easily unmade. GR may look less professional, but it will feel a whole lot more genuine.

In addition, let’s put in place ways to encourage horizontal communication and debate. A new more accessible e-list should be set up, the website should have pages for local groups to post, add comments, have local addresses for groups to contact each other without going through the centre. The steering committee should have its own e-group as well.

Over the next few months GR groups can establish themselves as effective networks by taking No Sweat actions in the run-up to International Women’s Day, joining in Rail Strike support activities, preparing for May Day activities and making Argentina the focus for a campaign of international solidarity. But the anti-capitalist movement also needs to take a hard look at where it’s at. GR must engage in the ongoing dialogue about where the movement as a whole needs to go.

The anti-capitalist movement has forced the capitalists onto the defensive, promoted the struggles of people in the South who are at the sharp end of globalisation’s neo-liberal offensive, and raised awareness among tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people - especially youth - about the role of capitalism in all these injustices.

But it has also come up against a counter- offensive. The detention of May Day protesters in London and Birmingham, the attempted murders in Gothenburg, the murder of Carlo Giuliani in Genoa, the drawing up of the anti-terrorist act last year and the new laws drafted after 11 September - all point to the fact that the capitalist state is trying to criminalise and terrorise our movement. At the same time, it is prepared to offer negotiations and even (cosmetic) reforms to that wing of the movement which is prepared to break ranks and denounce/ demobilise the most militant wing.

In Britain, we have additional problems: namely the disunity of the movement and the fact that the organised working class movement is led by a Labour loyal faction which will not lead a fight against privatisation, cuts and job losses.

We should look to where the movement is strongest and see if we can learn. Certainly the USA has a strong anti-capitalist movement which was built up over many years of locally-based direct action groups. But it is Italy where the movement has made great strides in the past year.

The Italian example

From a sectarian tradition of legendary proportions, the Italians have forged a unity against Berlusconi based on social forums which themselves are based on social centres. The social centres (usually squatted) are open to use by any organisation or group of people on the condition that they apply the principles of anti-racism, anti-fascism and anti- sexism in their practice.

GR should campaign for such forums - and where possible centres - to be set up across Britain. The following kinds of organisations/campaigns could join the forums or use the centres:

-Anti-racist and anti-fascist campaigners
-Trade union rank and file activists, strikers, etc.
-Anti-privatisation/PFI/PPP activists
-Anti-capitalist groups/campaigns
-Environmentalists
-Refugee support groups
-Anti-war groups
-Welfare and legal rights advisers
-International solidarity campaigns/exiled activists

By its very nature, such a campaign will involve networking with other groups - and thus breaking down some of the divisions that exist. It will also mean working with different allies and using different strategies in different areas.

Even without premises, we should attempt to get social forums up and running in Britain. These should not be limited to the existing anti-capitalist organisations and campaigns. We should approach any campaign or group that is active and supports the three principles behind the Italian social centres movement: Socialist Alliances, trade union left alliances, Stop the War coalitions, the Anti-Nazi League, black and Asian groups, school student campaigns and student unions, international solidarity campaigns.

Every area of struggle will benefit from having a network in place to support its actions. Imaginative and new methods of organising action can be exchanged, as can information. Prejudice and distrust can be broken down. Strikers can immediately call on a group of activists prepared to go out and build active public support for the services or industries at risk. Many of us could reduce the number of meetings we go to as well!

The proposal of social forums and, wherever possible, social centres should be the crowning idea with which we can relaunch GR and take the movement forward.

I hope this contribution is not taken as a “dig” at anyone. It is an honest attempt to take GR forward. I certainly believe that GR can play an important and constructive role in transforming the anti-capitalist movement and revolutionising the labour, anti-racist and women’s movements.



if only gr was not swp dominated...


write to committee members

12.02.2002 17:51

Dan: If you are a genuinely member of GR and concerned about possible corruption, then write to some of the members of the steering committee.
Anna Bragga (Green Party):  abragga@hotmail.com
Workers Power:  lrci@workerspower.com or  info@worldrevolution.org.uk

Then tell us the results of your inquiry.

Daniel Brett
mail e-mail: dan@danielbrett.co.uk


very clever....

12.02.2002 18:17

just out of curiosity, which organisation - other than GR - is Dan a member of? I think GR should be - and as far as i can see is - an organisation involving people from different organisations (SWP, Wotkers' Power, Green Party) and others from none. If you don't think that there's a problem with someone who's in one of the other organisations working for GR, and if you think that GT is not doing a bad job, then what's the problem? that he happens to be in an organisation other than your own?

gr member


What's the point?

12.02.2002 19:42

Christ, all Dan did is demand for some accountability within GR, the largest broad based umberella A/C group in the UK, which has international connections and asctually gets SOME positive media attention, and all some of you can do is gripe.

You anarchists might be a million years ahead of the rest of us proles, with your inherent understanding that _anything_ touched by the SWP must, by definition be inherently evil, even anti-war work (:-/) but I am sure that many people would liek to see an accountable GR.

Come to think of it, many Anarchists seem to criticise GR because it is a 'Leninist front group' and undemocratic and all that and yet when someone actually posts a message demanding these things, what do you do?

Indymedia is invaluable as a debating site and as an information site. If the only thing some of you want to do is de facto criticise any post that mentions Globalise resistance (unless it is savagely criticising it as a communist front) then why don't you just get lost.

Simon
mail e-mail: Dante_SH88@yahoo.com


A lesson

12.02.2002 19:53

The lesson for anyone getting involved with the SWP is clear. If you run with a pack of shits, some of the smell will eventually come off on you. Give them a miss Dan and do your own thing. Then you will be part of the the vibrant section of the anti-capitalist 'movement' and not part of someones advertising campaign.

Joe


Simon dearest

12.02.2002 19:57

are you and Dan asking for some sort of outsourcing of YOUR responsibility to straighten out the SWP front organization that goes by the name of Globalise Resistance? WTF? If YOU are in the organization, then YOU straighten it out. If it can't be straightened out then create a better GR. Don't ask other people to take on YOUR responsibilities for you: that's why GR is the mess that it is, the prole pawns have accepted the role that is alloted to them by the Temporary Transitional Party of the Proletarian Dictatorship.
Let's have no more crap about this cluttering up the newswire until you wet-arsed wankers have actually done some attempt at finding out what the suss is from your Leaders.

SwooperLoveSlave


Pathetic

12.02.2002 23:10

As usual the standard of debate drops to a base level where nothing is ever answered. Some idiot starts calling people wet arsed wankers. Well done mate, what an astute political point, and that's quite apart from the homophobic title of your posting.

And then you get GR member (an SWP member by any chance?) deflecting the issue and coming out with some bland statement which takes no account of what I've said. I stated at the very beginning I don't have an intrinsic problem with the paid activist being from the SWP. The problem I have - AGAIN- is that this decision was taken with absolutely no accountability and the SWP has just decided to pay one of its activists with money that is not its own. Surely the steering cmmtee should be consulted at the very least?!

There is nothing wrong with debate on Indymedia, that's part of its function. If people don't wanna join GR because it an SWP front, fine. If others, like me, wanna join it and try and stop it from being an SWP front that's up to us. I'm not asking anyone to "do this work for me". I was just hoping for a justification from someone in the SWP as to why they have done this. But as usual a wall of silence is put up and the issue swept under the carpet.

Dan


Missing the point?

13.02.2002 00:20

Thanks for that swooperloveslave, people like you make me proud to be on the left. Where do I mention that I want someone else to do anything for me? All I did was crticise the critics, and all Dan did was ask for accountability. When did anyone of us say "Will someone please ask the SWP what is going on?" We didn't, all that was asked was .... oh christ, I can't be bothered, read Dans original post.


Great debate everyone. To all those who are having a go at people like Dan because he should 'sort it out himself' you are missing the point. All he asked, and please reread it again in his original post, is can a member of the swp justify the undemocratic dumping of Guy taylor to his position in GR?

All you 'non GR cos it is a leninist front' anarchists can just shut up, because all you have done is given credibility to the SWP by letting them off the hook. Imagine if Dans post had remained unanswered? Or if the only answer had been an SWPer lamely saying "AT least he is doing a good job' (And thereby missing the point.) No, all that we have had is a rabid attack from what seems to be the usual group of people just because there was a posting on Indymedia with the heading that included the letters G and R. Please just shut up, we all know mpost of the 'DIY culture' hate GR, that is fine, let's have another debate elsewhere about the purpose and the pro's and con's of GR. The question asked at the top of this page was whether any SWP/GR members could justify the salary of Guy Taylor in an unelected post.

I don't think they can justify it, coming from a so-called democratic party. However because of this tirade of bullshit we will never know, because you have let the SWP off the hook again with a deluge of pointless sniping.

Well done, cheers for that.

Missing the point
mail e-mail: Dante_SH88


SimonDearest and DanDearest

13.02.2002 02:19

Dearest Dan,
my post was homophobic?!? How? I love homosexuals! I am one! The title was supposed to convey patronizing sarcasm, sorry it wasn't obvious enough for you (that's some more BTW, I'm not really sorry).

Dearest Simon,
(and I suppose Dan too), you are both avoiding the central objection to this stupid topid which is that there is NO POINT in asking the SWP to justify themselves on Indymedia when you haven't even done the basic legwork to contact the people within your organisation. Others have provided you with email addresses, lists of committee members (how come you don't have them yourselves? Does everyone else have to do everything for you? Does Mummy needed to wipe your noses and make sure that you don't join any political parties that you don't understand?), etc.
You are bitchin' and moanin' about how you know nothing about nothing on a public bulletin board. You are clogging up the electron flow with your mewling and complaints.
Here's the deal. You get hold of those people that are the committee, ask them for an official response. Also contact the SWP (they have a big, big organization so you should find it easy to contact them), and ask them about their policy of "entryism".
Then, write up the results, post a story to the newswire and we'll all kiss you.
Ta ta,
Swooper Love Slave

SwooperLoveSlave


To Lovely Dan & Dearest Simon

13.02.2002 02:53

Dan Dearest,
how is that you can so misconstrue the genuine feelings of affection that I have for my fellow man? I feel that you are like a misguided little fluffy teddy-bear that I want to pick up and hug. I am definitely not homophobic, in fact the complete opposite. I am a committed homophile and would welcome the opportunity to prove it to you. Now, you admit that you don't expect to get an answer to your question about if the Swoopers are mis-appropriating the cash for which you stood in the pouring rain selling papers with pigs cracking your skull. So why bring it up here again and again?
Why haven't you gone down to GR central and said "Take me to my leader"? They could have given you a good re-programming. Why haven't you taken the publically available contact addresses of the Central Steering Committee (Provisional) for the Betterment of Protest? Why have you not contacted the octopus-like SWP? They'd LOVE to
talk to you (good luck leaving without a copy of Trotsky:Why Murdering Other Socialists Is Good, A Complete Revision).
In short, why are you posting here? And why do you get so angry when people give you information and then tell you to do some work and stop whining?

Simon Dearest,
don't mind what Dan says, I don't hate you for being homosexual (although how he knows is beyond me unless the two of you are in this together?). No, I hate you for spweing worthless electrons into the aether of the internet. I hate you for accusing everyone that says the GR are a SWP front of being an anarchist. I hate you for defending Dan's right to post unsubstantiated, hysterical crap on the newswire and then refuse to get off his wet arse and actually do something about it.

A PLAN FOR SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS: Simon and Dan contact GR and ask their Democratic-Representatives-Who-Look-After-Everything-For-Them whether or not they have given the salary, who decided it, (although how this decision would have happened without the knowledge of the members of a democratic organization is beyond me!). Then the lads contact the SWP and ask them whether they constructed GR, whether all the "Independents" are Trotskyist, whether they condemn the practice of "entryism", whther they believe in a dictatorship of the proletariat, whether their fellow travellers in the ISO and WWP in the States have taken over as much as they can of the anti-war movement there, and finally whether Simon and Dan should just stop worrying and sell some more papers. (Probably S and D will decide to DIY and just turn up and march under the GR banner, rock on!!!).

Ta ta lovies,
SwooperLoveChild

SwooperLoveChild


Insane rants let the SWP off the hook....

13.02.2002 10:18

I cannot believe how pathetic you are swooperlovechild. Rather than talk about political points you lower yourself to political insults. You are obviously an extremely sad and insecure person, but all this sniping has just let the SWP off the hook. If you actually read the postings I have already stated that I have approached GR for an official answer and I have approached the SWP for an official answer but didn't get one. So we have done the basic leg work. That is why I put this posting here, to try and force them into giving an answer. Does that compute now??? (Also GR isn't a political party, its a front which is meant to be a united front. I think you need to read up on political organisations a bit...why would I be selling papers for GR???)

It's idiots like you who make sure that no real debate ever takes place. In fact the SWP must be laughing their heads off with people like you about.

Well done you've ruined a perfectly good point and made everyone who opposes the SWP look like sectarian nutters.

PS How am I meant to know you are being sarcastic when I've seen many real homophobic comments posted on here before. You're very clever with your use of sexual humour by the way, what an idiot.....

Dan


sorry I'm late!

13.02.2002 12:53

Yo Dan! I did try to address your question in a comment on your previous posting, but maybe you missed it.

Hope folk will forgive me repeating myself:


I confess I don't know exact details of how much time Guy spends with which 'hat' on.

But what I can say with absolute confidence is that Globalise Resistance doesn't subsidise the SWP. It's the other way round; the SWP provided most of the funds and resources to get GR up and running.

Frankly, if our participation in GR was supposed to be a money-spinner, it's been a dramatic failure! ;-)

internationalist
- Homepage: http://www.resist.org.uk


Thanks, but it still doesn't answer the Q!

13.02.2002 13:11

Cheers for the constructive feedback, but I don't think it answers what I'm saying, but it's interesting you acknowledge Guy goes round with different political hats on depending on the situation.

I agree that GR doesn’t subsidise the SWP, but that’s not the point. Neither is the fact that the SWP set it up and financed it initially.

The point is that the SWP claimed they set it up as a united front. As such now it is up and running surely it is the GR steering committee rather than the SWP who decides on how the finances of GR are used.

Once again the point is that a big chunk of GRs income is being used to pay for Guy Taylor (an SWP organiser) with no consultation at all with the steering committee , let alone the members. Surely this shows there is no real democracy in GR and it is an SWP front. This is the point I wanted answered.

Dan


okay so

13.02.2002 13:47

Are you sure the steering committee don't know about Guy? Seems kind of unlikely to me..

Still 'n all, I agree with Dan Brett; why not contact them and ask?

internationalist
- Homepage: http://www.resist.org.uk


okay so

13.02.2002 17:34

I find it pretty implausible the GR steering committee don't know about Guy Taylor. Still n all, as Dan Brett sensibly suggests, why not contact them and ask?

internationalist
- Homepage: http://www.resist.org.uk


I have done and they don't!!!

13.02.2002 18:30

Steering committee members I know don't know and weren't consulted.

Dan


Base Innuendo?

14.02.2002 02:00

It doesn't 'only' reflect envy. It reflects concern and Dan asked a fair question. I have no axe to grind. I have defended the SWP before and wasn't going to get involved with anything with "the SWP do this".. even remotely in the title again but here I go -
Why does responding only inflame the situation when it was (as I said) a fair question and not posted in a way that is intended to cause aggro?. A question deserves an answer.
Why then does a reasonable question get dismissed as "base innuendo"
And he tried to speak to 'the leaders' (as you said, not me) and got no answer. If this is true, the lack of respect is not on Dan's part.

There is no reason why anyone (or organisation) should be ashamed of being part of a united front. I believe we have to work together on the broader issues of injustice etc we agree on, whatever our differences, to achieve anything, given the odds but to be effective in this we have to answer questions not dismiss them and, more than that, to ask 'difficult' questions ourselves and to encourage everyone elso to ask them too.
And, yes, partisan bickering is poison to the movement but argument, honest answers, real communication is its lifeblood.
'We' will only have unity when people can ask questions freely without fear of ridicule,get immediate and honest answers and choose for themselves.

heather


the above from 'Alex Callinicos' is a hoax

14.02.2002 15:59

I can confirm that this is absolutely definitely a hoax. It was not posted by Alex Callinicos or anyone from the SWP.

Actually I'm disappointed at the lack of humour and subtlety. No good jokes, and Alex don't talk like that..

Come on folks; if you've nothing better to do than make up hoaxes, at least put in a bit of effort!

internationalist