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The Class War/MI5 Files

Class War | 14.01.2002 22:25

One thing that has become clear to me through the revelations of MI5 whistleblower David Shayler is the extent to which, like the police drugs and vice squads and special branch the Security Services are liable to slip into bed with those they are supposed to be monitoring and, if in the public interest, arresting.

The Class War Files
1. David Shayler's Class War revelations
31Dec01 - Tony Gosling
One thing that has become clear to me through the revelations of MI5 whistleblower David Shayler is the extent to which, like the police drugs and vice squads and special branch the Security Services are liable to slip into bed with those they are supposed to be monitoring and, if in the public interest, arresting.

The Gadaffi Plot and the Bishopsgate bomb revelations appear to show that the Security Services (MI5 and MI6) have been lying to ministers, failing to stop known terrorist bombs and even committing terrorist acts themselves. There is a fundamental problem that any act of terrorism can be and is used to justify the continued massive public spending on the secret state.

According to ex-MI5 officer turned whistleblower David Shayler, MI5's 'infiltration' of Class War looks more like a 'propping up' operation. Shayler revealed while in Bristol recently that a Metropolitan Police officer was recruited specifically to penetrate Class War. This he did very successfully, getting his hands on the membership database, one imagines, rather easily. So successful was the spy that he began taking on many of the administrative tasks at Class War. As the routine jobs nobody wanted to do started to be done with what was in effect a subsidy to the organisation, membership figures crept higher and higher and reliability and efficiency of Class War increased dramatically. When the copper was finally pulled out of Class War, largely due to Shayler's efforts within MI5, the organisation became a shadow of its former self.

One wonders if the same would happen to the Socialist Workers Party if MI5 pulled out of there? The 1999 book 'Defending the Realm, MI5 and the Shayler Affair' (by Mark Hollingsworth and Nick Fielding) reveals that MI5 recruited 25 agents specifically to spy on and penetrate the SWP. The tiny party are, after all, Bolsheviks plotting with the Russians to overthrow the British Government.

Since then the SWP have become almost as intransigent as the labour party when it comes to insisting members toe the party line. Could it be MI5 have a bigger part to play than we thought in creating that party line in the first place?

So I courteously request MI5 pull their agents out of the SWP, the sooner the better. My guess is either it would find it difficult to carry on or else fall into the hands of true socialists. I imagine the MI5's main reason for not pulling out of the SWP is to prevent the latter.

Any spooks reading this who wish to leak info to me which does not jepoardise national security (as opposed to the security of a New World 'Festung Europa' Order) but they feel the public should know about...???

You know how to do it and you know where I am ;-)

Read it: MI5 and the Shayler Affair, Mark Hollingsworth and Nick Fielding, Andre Deutsch, 1999, ISBN 0-233-99667-2  http://www.vci.co.uk

edited from my PEPIS bulletin #34
2. Letter from Class War on the above topic
CLASS UNITY-CLASS PRIDE
[Skull and Cross Bones logo]
CLASS WAR

Class War
P.O. Box 467
London
E8 3QX

07092 170105
 classwaruk@hotmail.com

10th January 2002

Dear Tony Gosling

As you are aware, we are far from impressed that you chose to distribute allegations about Class War in your Pepis bulletin [PEPIS#34 ed.]. The fact that these allegations come from a former MI5 officer (i.e. somebody who was paid by the government to spy on people like me, and if you are part of the radical movement, people like you) and you failed to check your facts with us before publication is disappointing to say the least.

Class War 79 (Spring 2000) covered Shayler in detail, and a copy was posted to him c/o Punch magazine. Larry O'Hara has also asked some pertinent questions of Shayler and his partner Annie Machon. Neither appear to have the backbone to flesh out their allegations, or indeed answer any questions about their own motivations.

Shayler has had every opportunity to give the full facts (as he sees them) about Class War, be it in Hollingsworth's book or in his Punch article on Class War (Punch, March 22 2000). Notably the smears about Class War "being propped up" or having "dissolved" appear in neither publication, when it was surely relevant. Instead the allegations surface two years later in yours. Could you at least do us the decency of telling us what Shayler has said in Bristol, when and to whom?

As you do not appear to be very well read - about either David Shayler or on the contemporary Anarchist movement - I enclose the following:

- Class War 79, which covered Shayler at length
- Larry O'Hara's writings on Shayler from issues of his magazine "Notes From The Borderland"
- The current issue of Class War, along with some leaflets and our London bulletin.
- A leaflet on the case of Anarchist prisoner Mark Barnsley, a victim of the very state Mr Shayler worked for.

We look forward to hearing from you on these matters.


PAUL MARSH, for Class War.

3. If only life were 'Class War' simple - my reply
13th January 2002

Dear Paul,

I wouldn't expect Class War to easily admit to having been infiltrated. Your assertion that because these allegations have not surfaced before they lack credibility is not reasoning. Shayler feels more confident in exposing wrongdoing by his former bosses as the secret state's case against him crumbles.

I am, in fact reasonably well read on the Shayler case and consider both your and Larry O'Hara's pieces biased. They seem to come from a lack of having actually met the pair. More importantly though you seem too 'Class Proud' to admit to security breaches. The allegation that the agent was pulled out because of Class War's lack of effectiveness might also be difficult for you to take on board.

Shayler's allegations about your agent were fleshed out with substantial background material and I wouldn't have passed on the allegation if they weren't. He described the debriefing of this particular agent who bragged about beating up uniformed police officers as part of his cover and that he was a heavy morning Carlsberg Special Brew drinker.

Too often radical groups (and governments come to that), when faced with uncomfortable allegations, fail to question their own motives and weaknesses. We therefore fail to adapt and grow with the times as we must, if we have the best interests of ordinary people at heart.

Part of the problem comes from the kind of narrow campaigning group Class War is. The world would be a duller place without Class War's irreverence and sense of humour (I was a subscriber for a couple of years round about 1994) but I am far less comfortable with your underlying premise that everybody in the upper or middle classes are the enemies of 'the people'. If they were I don't imagine there would be many of 'the people' left. Your premise owes a lot to a Marxist world view of 'us' and 'them' which is over simplistic.

If only life were that simple. I imagine the nightmare Class War demonstration where the local working class NF skinheads turn up to support your campaign against the Lords and go and beat up Lord Ahmed for you. He is one of the only people in parliament who is campaigning for monetary reform, an end to private monopoly on our money. Something absolutely crucial for the destruction of capitalism, something I have never seen your publications mention.

Anyway, back to Shayler's allegations about Class War's and your penetration by MI5. I received a circular nearly two years ago now saying that Class War was folding up. This could have been disinformation but I assumed it was true since it was corroberated by anarchist friends of mine. Just to check I phoned directory enquiries and found there was no listing for Class War either.

Machon and Shayler's motivations are clear as a bell to me. They joined the 'reformed' Secret Service in the good faith that they could help with that reform and have an exciting job to boot. When they found it was still blundering, incompetent and lying to press and public they bravely decided they couldn't stomach it.

If I'm right then you and Larry's accusations against Shayler and Machon are playing into the hands of the ruling hierarchy of what could, in years to come, become this countries secret police. Some would argue it already is. The fact that you may never have met Stephen Lander, Michael Pakenham etc. is no reason to align yourselves with them in their mission to put Shayler behind bars. When the legal case against a writer or whistleblower is weak the kinds of character assassinations circulated in your magazine play straight into the hands of the secret state.

I suggest you meet up with Shayler and Machon while they are still at liberty to discuss, confidentially and with an open mind, all they know about MI5 action against Class War then publish the discussions. My fear is that you may have already have done so much damage through your attacks on the couple that they may not trust you.

Anyway I hope this can all be resolved and the truth come out not behind closed doors but to the public as a whole. Please be assured I want to get to the truth about the relationship between MI5 and groups such as Class War and I will do whatever I can to help you. The implications of the 25 SWP agents are massive and potentially very damaging to the credibility of the SWP. I am suprised you did not pick up on those.

Oh, and by the way, you may not believe me but I'm actually pleased to hear you're still going. It's the Landers and the Pakenhams of this country, who I believe to be bitter enemies of free speech and freedom, that I want to see exposed for what they are.


Tony Gosling

Class War
- Homepage: http://www.bilderberg.org/sis.htm

Comments

Hide the following 11 comments

I thought Class War folded years ago

15.01.2002 00:15

Who are this bogus Class War? It use to be a good magazine but not around 1995 it folded as far as i was concerned. Why don't the people who keep trying to produce the magazine just let it go. It sboring now - and look like its written by middle class people - its not even funny. It was useful whil eit lasted - and it supposedly went with a bang - just let it drop. I'm sure it did have its agents - Tim 'Scargill' for one was a shady bugger - but there were many great and committed people in there - who hopefully are carrying on the struggle in more effective ways. So the fraudsters who keep coming out with a crap rag that they call class war - do something else.
Power to the people
Dave

Dave


daily torygraph/pepis/shayler/gosling etc....

15.01.2002 01:58

Isn't it strange how the torygraph attacked anarchists, particularly those opposed to the royal parasites - ma'am. then goslings ramblings via shayler appear so soon. once is a coincidence, twice an attack - on the anarchist movement.
fuck you shayler and all your spooky friends, this movement is worth so much more than your smears - check out argentina twat - and guess what it's no fucking 'secret' - the people are doing it for themselves........

give the 'proof' for your 'allegations' or face peoples questions - you are being led by your ego, wake up gosling, or at least wake up to the consequences of your smearing.

august spies
xxx

angry anarchist


Going too far...

15.01.2002 12:40

Anyone who was in Class War in the 90's was well aware that "Tim Scargill" was the agent you are talking about. Surely there is no argument that Class War was penetrated by this State agent (and at least one other, who got rumbled pretty quickly). Its all the more disappointing that Class War ignored his complete lack of ability to express himself politically in favour of his enthusiasm and willingness to take on work that other people had become tired of. Any organisation that welcomes people in off the street is liable to pick up spooks if they become successful enough, which in the early 90's Class War certainly was.

The argument is that he kept the organisation going: in fact he helped it on its way to terminal decline, nicked loads of money and did his best to completely fuck up everything he could (I was once invited to a "secret" meeting at which he attempted to manufacture a huge and nasty split in the Federation), the result of which was that he was left untrusted, impotent and isolated. He wasn't "pulled out" because Class War wasn't worth spying on - the gambit failed and he disappeared with the mailing lists that were virtually the only genuine success of his penetration.

Mr. E. Object


trust no-one!

15.01.2002 14:56

You see, you silly naive IMC types? All action you get involved with, any group you join, secretly serves the agenda of the state. Class War, the SWP, IMC itself are all full of spies. Everyone is your enemy.

The only logical thing to do is refuse to play the game, to frustrate their plots. How? Keep your head down; obey the law; in every way act like a quiet and efficient citizen. Whatever you do, don't join any groups or go on any protests. Ever. That'll fix em!

a nonny mouse


Class War Split in 1997

15.01.2002 20:09

In 1997 a general meeting of the Class War Federation agreed to fold; issue 73 of CW was an excellent run through of radical movements in the UK at the time, including some brilliant self-examination. Much respect to any groups that has the balls to admit that it has problems and to try something new, rather than continuing for the sake of it. About 40% of the members (mainly London) decided to continue organising and publishing as 'Class War.' I thinks that since then the paper has got a lot more shallow and homophobic, and is also missing a lot of the Federation's resources.

Ian Bone, a prominent and creative ego in Class War, helped set up the Movement Against the Monarchy after the CW split, so there are some links there.

I'd recomment getting Issue 73 to anyone who wants a good Class War analysis of the UK radical movement -- order from AK Distribution.

I write as an outside observer of the events in question, but they seemed pretty obvious to me at the time.

Lentilshaper


Piss off Gosling

15.01.2002 20:51

You sound as though you are right up your own arse Gosling. What's up? Bullied on yer way home from school by a rough working class girl? The only thing which will split is your nose when it comes into contact with my head.

The Fat Man.


The Class War/MI5 Files

16.01.2002 12:38

Can I make it clear that the thread "The Class War/MI5 Files" seemingly posted by Class War at 7.25pm on Monday 14 Jan 2002 was not posted by a Class War member, or even a supporter. As becomes clear when you read the text it was posted by Tony Gosling.

To simplify this argument Goslings basic position appears to be that Class War was propped up by the security services and that when this person was pulled out, the organisation collapsed. He knows this because David Shayler told him.

The facts are that Special Branch had an agent in Class War in 1992 - Andy Bryant. We have had this independently confirmed by a barrister. Andy Bryant was treasurer of the London Class War group (he had no national post, and therefore no access to any members addresses) When it was realised Andy was not doing a very good job as Treasurer he did a bunk - it was then discovered he had nicked a small amount of the London groups dosh.

All this was in 1992 - a full 5 years before Class War split in 1997. Therefore Shayler cannot even manage to fit his tales about Class War within a time scale that matches events. The whole story is hardly news - we covered it in Class War 79, in Spring 2000. Had Tony Gosling bothered to check before acting as Shayler's errand boy, we would have told him the facts.

Class War maintains a regular paper, website and activities - we look forward to taking part in this years anti-Jubilee demo's. See you there.
Like all activists we could do without having to piss around answering bollocks like this. I notice Gosling ends his peice saying he would like more information from MI5 officers, providing it does not jepardise national security(!!!!!)
Given this, perhaps IndyMedia and radical groups should be on guard for further smears and under-researched articles from the seriously under-employed Mr Gosling.

Paul Marsh
mail e-mail: classwaruk@hotmail.com
- Homepage: http://www.tao.ca/~lemming/classwar


Gosling.

16.01.2002 16:18

I wonder what Gosling's agenda is? He's been discredited on various radical e-mail lists lately, so his own credibility is in doubt. Better check with your handler before replying Tony. Never use your own initiative when your 'friends' will provide theirs at the taxpayers expense.

B.S.


Cutting through the bullshit

16.01.2002 17:19

1. Class War are fully aware of all the supposed allegations and have been for years. We are confident of the post by Paul Marsh  classwaruk@hotmail.com We also like asking awkward questions about credibility, such as that raised against Gosling and against the 'observers' who care to comment about Class War from a basis of non-involvement 'it used to be good but not now'. The close down Class War shit resolved itself into a split years ago. What happened? The close down section are not working together, and do little of note as individuals. The Class War 'originals' carrying on have been involved in many campaigns and are very prominent...
2. Whats the shite about Lord Ahmed, Gosling? his proposals are reformist shite too.
3. right on August Spies.
4. Lentilshaper is wrong. The CLass War special meeting voted to do a special edition of the paper NOT close down the Class War federation. In the aftermath there was a bitter split as the close down section lied and manipulated... That was in 1997 and still the sad types are promoting issue 73 'close down Class War', behind the times comrades! No practice No theory [no fucking nothing]!

Other intellectuals have commented about issue 73 being vapid as well, there was nothing new in it at all just some peoples ego's... Class War is now putting together issue 82 of the newspaper, is involved in several campaigns, and spreads London Calling throughout the movement.... The 'close down' section should really find something better to do (like class struggle) than rehash old arguments against Class War as it now exists. Class War - since time began, everwhere. Just fucking do it you saddo's. See you on the front fucking line if you know your arse from your fucking elbow.

The man who knows


Tony 'care in the community' Gosling...

17.01.2002 15:41

This Gosling character seems like a nutter to me. I'd never heard of the twat until I got an unsolicited e-mail from him a couple of weeks ago, pratling on about Shayler, etc. I replied to him, making it clear that I didn't know him or what the fuck he was going on about. I also stated that, for the record, I thought Larry O'Hara was probably right about Shayler still being some sort of spook. Regardless of his true agenda, his 'revelations' are worthless shit, like him. He sent a reply implying I was some sort of spook! (see below).

Obviously a care in the community case.

=========

Dear 'harry'

It might be a good idea to bring me in on the loop to help clarify things.

>
>Shayler talked about Class War in both his Punch column AND gave his
>opionions on us in the Hollingsworth book.
>On neither occasion does he make this claim about us being "propped up" when
>it would surely have been relevant to do so.

The fact that Shayler didn't mention it then doesn't mean he didn't say it
when he came to Bristol - he did

Equally the claim that Class
>War has collapsed is certainly news to all our members!

I myself got a circular saying that class war wouldn't be publishing the
newspaper anymore - the main activity (and to which I used to subscribe).
Class War has ceased to be the campaign it was and it is not unreasonable
to describe it as a collapse.

>Any casual observer of the Pepis article would believe these comments from
>Shayler are in Hollingsworths' book, especially as Pepis encourage us to
>read it so strongly.
>

The fact that Shayler doesn't mention this in his book is hardly a reason
not to recommend it.

hope that helps to clear things up

Tony
--

Dear Tony

I think you're confusing me with someone else. Don't know where you got my e-mail address from. I've never been
associated with the group Class War. Not sure what the mail you sent me was about.

For the record though, I basically agree with Larry O'hara's view of that tosser Shayler - completey untrustworthy
and probably still a spook. Most his 'revalations' are worthless shit, like him.

HR

--

you should apply for a job with MI5

they'd like you


Tony

--

Are you under the impression you know me? Aparently someone in Class War uses the same name.

Anyway, can't be bothered with nutters like you! Fuck off!

HR

Harry Roberts


Terry gosling and "marxist simplification"

12.01.2003 03:49


Shock horror! Terry Gosling detects "Marxists" in Class War. They're even opposed to the good gentelmen of the upper chamber! Perhaps, driven by the devilish rigor of "marxist ideology" they may come to question the very existence of Monarchy itself! The sheer horror! Imagine the scene, Class War not just linking with fascist agitators but now joining with Monsanto to topple Charles from his rightful place at the head of the our sacred nation! Such are the dangers of subscribing to the simplifications inherent in uncle Karl's magnum opus!

Unfortunately for Mr Gosling hostility to illegetimate institutions existed before Mr Marx, and so, incredibly, did social classes. The real simplification lies in conflating "monetary reform" with the end of capitalism. Anyone care to challenge neo-liberalism, colonialism, property and the state? No problem, just see T Gosling for details of your nearest Local Exchange Trading scheme.

Austin
mail e-mail: Fletcherau@hotmail.com