Greens & SWP

Independent Anarchist | 06.12.2001 14:36

In Ireland the SWP regularly the Green Party to speak at their public meetings. Why is this?

Regularly the SWP get the Greens to speak at their public meetings. Why is this?

Here are a few possible reasons:

1. Gives them a sense of respectability. The SWP are a middle-class student dominated group. The Greens give them a sense of respectability due to their electoral success.

2. Easier to recruit new members. If a public meeting is advertised with a prominant Green a larger group are likely to turn up. By sharing a platform with the Greens middle class people are not as quickly turned off by the words "Socialist" and "Worker".

3. Some SWP members think that "Socialism" means "extremely liberal on social issues". The Greens are seen by many as liberal/left, therefore the Greens are allies for SWP.

4. SWP is a middle class "anti-establishment" party, so are the Greens.

5. A SWP Covergroup can be made to seem wide and diverse.

6. They would not like to host a public meeting with a Socialist group (or any other working class campaigners) as they would run rings around them and expose them as a Party that flit from issue to issue at the drop of a hat.

What do you think? are the Greens aware of this? I'm sure they are, and they get a bit of "anti-establishment" credibility by sharing platforms with SWP.

Independent Anarchist

Comments

Hide the following 13 comments

What's wrong?

06.12.2001 15:19

I can't see what's wrong with different political organisations co-operating on a single agenda. If the Greens and SWP want to organise meetings together, that's their prerogative.

Daniel Brett
mail e-mail: dan@danielbrett.co.uk

What's the problem?

06.12.2001 15:53

Why are people so threatened by the SWP? So what if they have an event with the Greens or anyone else? Do you think people are so stupid they won't see through any subversive motives or hidden agendas they are alleged to have? I'm an unaffiliated socialist and nobody has ever given me any evidence of anything criminal or wrong with the SWP? Are there any politcal parties that aren't touched by corruption, egomaniacs, and hidden agendas? And what is so virtuous about the anarchist movement anyway?

Zimpley Red
mail e-mail: zimpleyred@yahoo.com

cash for speakers...

06.12.2001 16:01

Yeah I used to wonder this, particularly in relation to GR. It seems to be a reflection of the SWP's tactic, within front groups to appease the right-wing of the movement (in this case, the greens) in order to be "respectable" within the middle class establishment. This secures media coverage, and helps get large numbers of people to conferences/meetings etc.
The SWP then convert people into "revolutionaries" by selling them their paper and recruiting them to the party (quotation from initial SWP email I got when I joined: "we judge our success by the number of papers we sell, and the number of people we recruit.")
It is unlikely, however, that the greens get many people actually into the streets (even on GR demos), and the answer I was given by one SWP/GR member when I asked why the greens were then given so many speakers at GR events, was that the greens "contribute substantial finances to GR".

Cash for speakers anyone?
heh-heh

ex-SWPer
mail e-mail: r3515t4nc3@hotmail.com

Depends on the effect

06.12.2001 16:06

They do the same with George Monbiot, Susan George etc, all reformists, so the SWP can apear to be radical revolutionaries. Nothing wrong with sharing platforms etc, but often in order to get these people to appear the SWP are not critical of their politics. They are even going so far as contamplating an electoral block with the Green Party. Not exactly revolutionary if you ask me

Sly

Eh?

06.12.2001 16:46

Haven't you got more important things to worry about than whether the SWP and the Greens are forming an alliance or holding joint meetings? How on earth is this important or interesting? Both parties have their faults - the SWP for its lack of tact and the Greens for being allied to the pro-war Die Grünen - but this matter is really trivial. Given the problems the IMC server is having in coping with the level of information it has to store, would it be better to concentrate on news or more worthwhile debates?

Daniel Brett
mail e-mail: dan@danielbrett.co.uk

some further thoughts...

06.12.2001 16:46

Has anyone thought that maybe those of us on the left should be a little bit more, dare I say, practical or pragmatic? Yes, I know a mass movement of workers needs to be built up etc. But, in the short term couldn't electoral politics be used as a platform to spread ideas. My observation, at least in the U.S.A., is that the masses of workers have either become comfortably numb without a clue of the struggle or sacrifice made just to get the eight hour day, worker's compensation, or the right to organize or they think it's their lot to get screwed by the system. I think the fractured leftist parties and Greens should put certain differences aside until later and form a Red-Green/Green-Red alliance. Am I the only dreamer? It seems that the debates between those on the left is a disservice to the people. Aren't there basic principles we can all agree on without squabbling over finer points of ideology or nomenclature?

Zimpley Red
mail e-mail: zimpleyred@yahoo.com

unity

06.12.2001 17:03

yes unity is such a terrible thing isn't it, god working with other people who you disagree with- shocking. Must be some plot going on somewhere....

Ever heard of the Italian Social Forum???

Why was genoa so big? Because different political perspectives united around a common aim, and now the Italian Social Forum continues the work laid by Genoa and includes everyone from Greens, pacifists, Marxists and oh my god autonomists too!

Shocking somebody should tell them they'd be far better off spending their time writing messages designed to create division and hatred....

get a life

for unity

noel

noel
mail e-mail: noel@freemachine.net

surely this should be deleted?

06.12.2001 18:40

This is just the sort of crap that's making indymedia a pain in the arse to look at because there's so much shite on the newswire. Start a discussion forum then people can discuss to their hearts content.

stupid

Yes, but....

06.12.2001 18:51

Yes, Noel, unity would be a wonderful thing, but when it's patently obvious that the SWP aren't interested in it, and still persist in playing the usual takeover games, then other posters have the right to draw attention to that. It's called BEING OPEN, and it's something that the Swappies AIN'T.

Jim
mail e-mail: serengoch@hotmail.com

An example

06.12.2001 19:30

An example of the SWP/Green 'alliance' can be drawn for last Saturday's (1 Dec) Irish Anti War Movement national demonstration. The SWP had three speakers at the rally, the Greens had one. But they would not let Joe Higgins TD for the socialist party speak because they didn't want "party politcal" speakers. Emmmm, so what were the previous four speakers exactly? Or maybe they didn't want socialism brought onto the agenda, as it might 'scare' people away! This is totally undemocratic, as the SP are members of the IAWM. but it seems that just like GR, the IAWM is SWP dominated. i wouldnt like to see what kind of 'workers democracy' they would install after a revolution, would you?

dazed&confuzed

keep it up!

06.12.2001 23:01

this kind of debate is extremely important otherwise a movement that could change the world will be taken over and crushed by silly people that want to sell newspapers. i can't stand the way that every time someone brings up a discussion about the SWP all the trots can say is something like "whole worlds falling apart, ignore us trying to fuck your movement up, and try and fight all the things that our central commitee says are bad" but without being as blatant as that :). ffs how is this not important?

jimmer

to danial brett, esp

07.12.2001 14:16

what "wrong" is that they should be sharing platforms not with greens but with SOCIALISTS and WORKERS ! glaringly obvious, actully...
but they dont; thats the thing they WONT do, because theyre FAKES. the SWP is not socialist, not worker based and indeed they repudiate much of what trotsky or even marx established, (eg, trotskys "ussr- workers- state theory, and marxs "aristocracy-of labor- theory). their current strategy is to replenish and perpetuate the party via the new anticapitalist movement, whilst letting the LABOUR party in at every opportunity. ALL SECTIONS OF THE LaBOUR PARTY PRIDE THEMSELVES ON SERVING THE ESTABLISHMENT , which categori cally cuts across the principle of the left remaining independent...

acorn tributor

re Denial Brett

07.12.2001 14:48

which Daniele Brett were ya 'all refering to
as from today there are rakes of 'em
I guess it was the self appointed IMC media cop ?

LB

Luther Blissett