Please can you supply the text when posting a document like a pdf. It's great that you can, but some people like me can't access pdf's at the moment, plus the text cannot be read when you do a search through indymedia. Thanks.

Let me get this correct, the Israelis have unleased an massive attack on the Palestinians. They attacked 2 empty office buildings. Thats massive. Massive is the way King Hussein responded in 1970, when the Palestinians tried to terror to overthrow his goverment. I'm shocked at the restraint Israel has shown. I mean, when genocidal Palestinians are slaughtering Jewish teenagers every day in buses, shopping malls, disco's and pizza places. Israel should learn from King Hussein how to stop Palestinian terror.

Restraint you make me laugh. There is only one side commiting genocide in Palestine, that is the Israeli state. Since the start of the intafada victims ~800 Israeli ~120.

Israel has for 50 years been waging war on the Palestinians, with tanks and helicopter gunships. They have a right to fight back, of course that does not justify blowing up innocent Israelis.

Sly, you tell me who want genocide.

 http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-120601holy.story

Sheikh Muhammed Siyam, a Hamas military leader said this.

"I've been told to restrict or restrain what I say, I hope no one is recording me or taking any pictures, as none are allowed, because I'm going to speak the truth to you," Siyam reportedly said at the conference. "It's simple. Finish off the Israelis. Kill them all! Exterminate them! No peace ever! Do not bother to talk politics."

Arafats speech in Sweden in 1996, when Peres was Prime Minister. In a January meeting between Mr. Arafat and Swedish-based Arab diplomats in Stockholm, Arafat estimates that the final-stage agreements between the Palestinians and Israel will ultimately bring about Israel's collapse. He told the diplomats that a migration of Arabs to the West Bank, Jerusalem and Jaffa and the psychological warfare the Palestinians would wage against the Israelis, would cause a massive emigration of Jews to the United States. "We Palestinians will takeover everything, including all of Jerusalem," the PLO leader declared." "We of the PLO will now concentrate all our efforts on splitting Israel psychologically into two camps," Arafat reportedly declared. "Within five years, we will have six to seven million Arabs living on the West Bank, Jaffa and Jerusalem. He added that the PLO plans "to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian State. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion, so Jews won't want to live among us Arabs

I am becoming very interested in the methods used by certain parties to defend themselves from what they see as anti semetic attacks, from supposed rascist bigots.
Merely stating the FACT that Jewish people control a large part of the worlds media , brings torrents of abuse.
The 'attackers' will often hysterically accuse the authors of wanting to imprison all jews being part of a right wing plot, and other assorted hysteria.

Joseph uses a link which qoutes the leader of a terrorist organisation, Hamas, saying he wants to destroy Israel, he then fits in a one liner, regarding Sheikh Muhammed Siyam, who plays no part in the Palestinian government and is pretty obvously going to have extremist views.

But then in the main body of his comment then goes into a totally unsubstantiated speel about a speech that HE claims Arafat made in Sweden. WHERE'S THE LINK / PROVE ????

I went to check the link expecting to find confirmation of what Arafat had said, but the only mention of Mr Arafat in the article, printed below, is this which hardly incriminates him. does it ?

He reportedly said that "in the end Hamas would throw out Arafat and an Islamic state would be established," an informant told the FBI.



This is a form of manipulation that is not un common on various indymedia sites, I am putting together a little dossier about this, which I will post when it's conclusive.

The article does however mention how the FBI went about collecting the said information about the so called terrorists groups, The Israeli's told them ...

It used informants to infiltrate meetings, relied on intelligence from other countries, such as Israel, and obtained "recently declassified electronic surveillance."


 http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-120601holy.story
FBI Tied Islamic Charity to Calls to Kill Israelis
Inquiry: Account of a Holy Land Foundation speaker's words is used to support freezing assets.


By LISA GETTER, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON -- A prominent Islamic charity raised
$207,000 at a 1995 Los Angeles event at which the keynote
speaker exhorted the crowd to "Finish off the Israelis. Kill them all," according to an FBI memo obtained Wednesday.

The account is contained in a 49-page FBI document that the
Treasury Department used to support this week's decision to
freeze the assets of Holy Land Foundation for Relief and
Development. The charity allegedly funneled money to Hamas,
the Palestinian militant organization that claimed responsibility for last weekend's suicide bombings in Israel.

The FBI memo provides a glimpse of how the federal
government has gone about amassing evidence against groups it
believes are aiding terrorists. It used informants to infiltrate meetings, relied on intelligence from other countries, such as Israel, and obtained "recently declassified electronic surveillance."

Since Sept. 11, the United States has frozen the assets of dozens of groups, but Holy Land was the first U.S.-based charity to be shut down.

An FBI informant identified the speaker at the January 1995
Muslim Youth Conference--held over the New Year's holiday at
the Hyatt Regency hotel--as Sheikh Muhammed Siyam, a
Hamas military leader.

"I've been told to restrict or restrain what I say. . . . I hope no one is recording me or taking any pictures, as none are allowed . . . because I'm going to speak the truth to you," Siyam reportedly said at the conference. "It's simple. Finish off the Israelis. Kill them all! Exterminate them! No peace ever! Do not bother to talk politics."

A Holy Land official then urged the crowd to give to "the
cause," said the memo, which was written by Dale L. Watson,
the FBI assistant director of counter-terrorism.

Memo Details Group's Alleged Ties to Hamas

Holy Land has raised money for Hamas at conferences for years, the memo said, and Siyam has been a frequent guest
speaker--evidence of the charity's ties to the terrorist group.

Ghassan Elashi, Holy Land's chairman, said Wednesday that the
foundation does not give money to Hamas. But he did
acknowledge raising funds at Islamic conferences in which Siyam was a speaker.

"The question is not how we raise the funds," he said, "it's
where we send the funds." He said the charity's money has aided more than 10,000 children and it will "contest the decision" to freeze its assets.

The White House announced that it has frozen $5 million of
Holy Land's assets since imposing the freeze at midnight
Monday.

"The message is this: Those who do business with terror will do no business with the United States--or anywhere else the United States can reach," Bush said in announcing the action Tuesday.

The Texas-based group, which has branches in New York,
Illinois, New Jersey, California and Florida, collected $13 million in contributions last year, sending most of it overseas.

Holy Land has steadfastly maintained that it is a legitimate relief organization that has no ties to Hamas, which was designated as a terrorist organization by the United States on Jan. 23, 1995.
The charity says the money it raises mainly goes to help
Palestinian refugees in the West Bank and Gaza.

"All this notion about the Holy Land Foundation and terrorism
is politically motivated," foundation President Shukri A. Baker said in an interview with The Times in October. He did not return messages left at his home Wednesday.

But the FBI memo contends that "key decision-makers" within
Holy Land, including Baker, are "active members of Hamas."
One informant told the FBI he attended a Nov. 5, 1995, Culver
City conference in which Baker was introduced to the audience
as "the senior vice president" of Hamas. Baker allegedly told the attendees that money raised by Holy Land was strictly for the militant group.

Credit card receipts showed that Hamas member Siyam made
five trips to the United States from 1992 to 1994 on the
foundation's corporate American Express card, all ostensibly for fund-raising, the FBI reported.

The memo said that the FBI's first solid evidence about Holy
Land's ties to Hamas came in October 1993.

Three members of Holy Land, including Baker and Elashi, met in Philadelphia with senior members of Hamas and the Islamic
Assn. for Palestine, another American nonprofit group that has
been under scrutiny by the Treasury Department. The FBI
memo said that the Islamic Assn. for Palestine, like Holy Land, had received "large sums of money" from Hamas political leader Mousa Abu Marzook. Marzook gave Holy Land a $210,000
contribution in 1992, according to the charity's income tax
returns.

"The overall goal of the meeting was to develop a strategy to
defeat the Israeli/Palestinian peace accord, and to continue and improve their fund-raising and political activities in the United States," the FBI reported, using
information it gathered from its own intelligence and subsequent interviews of participants by the
Israelis.

"It was decided that most or almost all of the funds collected in the future should be directed to
enhance the Islamic Resistance Movement and to weaken the self-rule government. Holy War
efforts should be supported by increasing spending on the injured, the prisoners and their families,
and the martyrs and their families."

The FBI memo said that "evidence strongly suggests" Holy Land did just that by providing annuities to families of Hamas suicide bombers. The support provides "a constant flow of suicide volunteers and buttresses a terrorist infrastructure heavily reliant on moral support of the
Palestinian populace," the FBI said.

The money flowed from Texas to charity committees controlled by Hamas in the Palestinian territories, to Holy Land offices in the West Bank or to other groups that support Hamas, the FBI
concluded.

At a Buena Park fund-raiser in 1997, Baker reportedly said that the mission of Holy Land was to support the families of Hamas "martyrs." He reportedly said that "in the end Hamas would throw out Arafat and an Islamic state would be established," an informant told the FBI.

Probe of Charity Conducted for Years

Another FBI source said in 1998 that Holy Land believed its ties to Hamas would become public once Hamas was recognized as "a legitimate representative of all Palestinian people."

John W. Bryant, a Texas lawyer and former member of Congress who represented the charity until early this year, said he spent years meeting with officials from the FBI, Treasury, Justice Department and even the Israeli Embassy in an attempt to end the probe.

"There's not really any case there," he said. "If this was really true, would they have waited?"

Bush said that Hamas' claim of responsibility for the suicide attacks that killed 28 people last weekend convinced him the Holy Land freeze was needed.

It sickens me to see more and more innocent Palestinians killed just for wanting their homeland back. It was theirs anyway in the First place. 50 years of Israeli killings and there seems no end in sight to Sharons and Bushs thirst for blood. I condemn them both and all those who side with them always.