CONGRATULATIONS GUYS! KEEP GOING, HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! greek student in Leeds

What I find humorous is that in a movement as diverse as the anti-capitalist movement we appear to always get the same bullshit from the socialists, take this for example, i can only make it to brussels if i leave on the 13th, the GR bus leaves on the 12th, but because im not a socialist im not aloud to go with the SY bus, solidarity my arse, bigots!

pissed off at SY anarchist

I agree that the funding the GR and membership groups gets allows them to organise aspects like this easier and it is announced in their groups who wants to go, but I guess then their needs to be coordination for other groups made as well.

Seems like Socialist Youth are at it again...did they not decide at their national conference to become members of GR? Then why did they organise a seperate bus to the GR one considering the GR bus may have to be cancelled due to insufficent numbers???? Thios is the sort of petty secterianism that devides the left and will crush the growing anti capitalist mood in Ireland. I have handed out GR leaflets throughout Dublin and on the day of solidarity with Genoa was told by one SY member that he would not take part in the rally cos the SWP were taking part....grow up!We need a movement that is as wide and as varied as the struggles we seek to unite Unity in diversity!
END SECTERIANISM!

If you had of read the above statement by my comrade in SY you will have realised that ALL SOCIALISTS ARE WELCOME ON OUR BUS!

We are open to all....And yes we are members of Globalise Resistance but we are also a seperate organisation and if the people who are criticisng SY would bother to contact Grace Lally or any member of the "leadership" of GR then you would know that we have contacted GR on the issue and invited them along.

If you want to get into an argument about sectarianism I more than willing....But this isnt the place.

WE ARE NOT SECTERIAN SIMPLY AS WE CONTACTED YOUR LEADERSHIP IN GR AND INVITED THEM ALONG.

P.S. SY did march in Genoa....We marched wlong with the CWI

Before you critise my organisation please get your facts right!

I have the utmost respect for the SWP and GR but this type of "bandwagon" attack is unacceptable.

~A very angry Trotskyist Communist~

AGAIN MAY I SAY THAT ALL SOCIALISTS ARE WELCOME TO COME WITH US. BUT THE PLACES ARE TIGHT SO GET IN TOUCH SOON FURTHER INFO CAN BE FOUND OUT AT OUR WEBSITE
 http://www.socialistyouth.cjb.net

AND FOR THE RECORD SY HAVE PLANNED THIS TRIP TO BRUSSELS SINCE THE NATIONAL CONFERENCE

I think its an absolute disgrace that the SWP have started a slagging match trying to gain points at SY's expense.

as the kevolution wrote all socialists are welcome.

The SWP have behaved disgraceful here.

And i am disgusted at it.

and i will be revising my good attitude toward the SWP organisation.

The bus has been organised and funded by Socialist Youth, we are entitled to orgainse a bus if we choose to this is not sectarian. The fact is that we are inviting all those that are welcome to come on the bus, whether they are socialist or not, already 2 anarchists have confirmed their place on the bus. I know of many independents that would not consider themselves sociaist coming on the bus. The fact is that it is a bus that is going to Brussells if anyone wants to come you're very welcome. It is simply not sectarian.

The reality is that this label of sectarian has been put about by certain members of the SWP, as a cover for their own incompetent and undemocratic managment of Globalise Resistance. For example last saturday we (Socialist Youth) only heard about the WTO protest at 11am when the protest was to begin at 2pm. I believe that this was quite deliberate on behalf of certain people in the 'leadership' of GR. I also have reason to believe that members of the SWP have been 'instructed' by their leadership not to go on our bus. Who is being sectarian here?

Socialist Youth are members of GR, we do as much as we can participate in GR activities, We want GR to grow and become an effective Anti globalisation voice in Ireland. But at times I wonder if we (or any other groups other than the SWP) are considered as members by the leadership of GR.


This sectarian accusation has often been thrown at SY and the Socialist Party by certain members of the SWP, but which is the real sectarian party? Recently at their Marxism conference, no members of the Sociaist Party were invited to attend as speakers. The SP is a marxist party, in Dublin they have 2 councillors, a TD, and have a real base amongst workers. Not to invite the Socialsit Party to this event is sectarian in the supreme, especially considering that speakers were invited from the Greens, which do not even claim to be Marxist.

I do not want these comments to be misinterpeted, these are legitimate concerns that I have about GR, I hope that members of the SWP and others do come with us. It is important that we get a big number at this demo in Brussells. We can not afford to be engaging in childish name calling.

Look,
As it said in my original post, all anti-capitalists are welcome on the bus. I don't know where this sectarianism thing came from, all I was doing was letting people know that if they want to get to Brussels, there is an option other than flying with O'Leary's un-unionised Ryanair. If you ask me travelling to an Anti-Cap demo with an Un-unionised company is hypocritical , but I understand that it is cheaper and I won't hold any grudge against those who do. The point is that we GET to Brussels.

As for GR bitching about not being told about the bus or whatever. As Shane said, we decided this at the national conference in Sept. We had no idea what GR were doing about it so we took the initiative and organised our own bus. Recently I asked one SWPer what they were doing for Brussels, and he STILL didn't know. (this was the same day that the GR WTO protest was on O'Connell bridge - which we weren't told about!)I even emailed the Info to the Webmaster at the GR site with the info, and it was not posted, despite us being affiliates!!!! Democracy, where?

And it is an SY bus because we are raising the money for it. Joe Higgins, SP TD has even subsidised the price bringing it down from £140 to £80. We have, and still are, putting massive work into organising, collecting money and building for Brussels. It's not sectarianism, to call it so is a lie, and reeks of shit-stirring and point scoring when all we want to do is ensure arses get on seats and we get to Brussels to register our opposition.

SO IF YOU WANT TO COME RING ONE OF THE NUMBERS ABOVE AND LET US KNOW. We look forward to hearing from you.
Slán agus Solidarity
C, Dearg

As far as I know, GR are not, and were never, organising a bus for Brussels. Their website, as the last comment pointed out, advised travelling on Ryanair. Mind you, they may have organised one and not told anyone, it woulb't surprise me, cos it seems to me that the SWP think they own GR.
Dazed&Confuzed

I am not in the SWP and find it amusing that members of SP immediatly jump to the conclusion that any attack launched onb them comes from the SWP. You are clearly extremly paranoid about the SWPs activities, perhaps giving us some insight into the level of insecurity among members of SY. When i handed leaflets out in DUBLIN as stated i was not asking people to march in Genoa....but in DUBLIN. The SY member who throw the leaflett back in my face refused to join the March on O'connell st after the morning of discussion in Liberty Hall....because the SWP were taking part.
A DEGENERATE WORKERS STATE? MY ARSE....your almost as bad as the Sparts!

If your not in the SWP why were you handing out leaflets for them?

Secondly the day of the march in support of Genoa protesters that Saturday we had a che guevara meeting planned...which we had planned for months before the events of Genoa.

Secondly I dont the way you are refering to my organisation. I strikes me that you are a lone member of the SWP who is SECTERIAN and is trying to score points of the SP and SY and this is unacceptable.

MY NAME IS SHANE KENNA AND I AM FROM THE DUBLIN BRANCH
OF SY AND THE TALLAGHT BRANCH OF THE SP....

If you wanna debate sectarianism come up to the SY stall on a Saturday and ask for me..And please leave your name too Because i am disgust at your behaviour and intend to complain to the SWP about this absolute secterian attack.

A comrade of mine came in here offering news and information about whats going on in Brussels inviting all along to the march on the SY bus, and you come in here calling him secterian. This is disgraceful.

Your party has a right to critise ours but to so in such a mannor is disgraceful.

And i can tell you this the mood in SY has always been to work with GR and be extremely gentlemanly in all our dealings which we have.

I for one have on many occassions entered into conversations with SWP members I personally know SWP members and i proud to call them my friends.

P.S. WE ARE NO WAY LIKE THE SPARTS THEY ARE SPECIALLY FLOWN IN FOR ALL EVENTS.

AND ARE SECTERIAN.......IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO AN ARGUMENT ABOUT SECTERIANISM YOUR MORE THAN WELCOME......I CAN COUNTER ALL YOUR ACCUASATIONS WITH TRUTH AND FACT.

Again I want to debate this with you and i invite you to my organisations stall some saturday.

Maybe this saturday at the anti war demo.

yours
a very angry trotskyist.

"Grrr..." why are you handing out SWP leaflets if you are not a member? The fact is that SY are not paranoid about SWP activities, frankly we don't mind what they get up to. But when they do activities under the name of Globalise Resistance we have a right to be concerned. We are affiliated to GR. If you would like to discuss our politics and the politics of the SWP we would be delighted to do so. You have our email adresses and websites etc, please get in contact.

To: Globalise Resistance and members of Globalise Resistance

Dear Friend,

We are writing to formally register our dismay at your decision to advertise travel to the demonstration in Brussels by Ryan Air flights without even a mention of the bus organised by Socialist Youth & the Socialist Party despite details being sent in by at least four people. We are members of Globalise Resistance and have played a role in building for GR events and recently have worked with activists from GR on many anti-war activities. At a recent meeting when it became clear that GR was not in a position to organise a bus to Brussels we made a formal offer to GR members to travel to Brussels with us on a bus, which we are actually subsidising.

The approach of Socialist Youth / Socialist Party, which was explained to Richard Boyd Barrett, who is a leading member of the SWP and active in GR, was that we would send some people on the GR bus to Brussels but that we needed to organise a special bus that would stay in Brussels for an extra day because Socialist Youth is participating in an International Socialist Resistance "Counter Summit" on the Saturday. When the offer of spaces on our bus was made Grace Lally of Globalise Resistance / SWP advocated that the bus be a joint bus as many members of Globalise Resistance would have a difficulty travelling on a 'Socialist' labelled bus. We understand that our approach is now being labelled as sectarian and that some people may even believe that we sabotaged GR attempts to organise a bus.

We find it incredible to be labelled in this way given that our offer represented a genuine and generous offer of assistance to GR. It is not sectarian, it is the right of Socialist Youth to organise a "Socialist" bus to a socialist conference. It strikes us that some people in GR are unfortunately trying to put a measure of blame on us for an unfortunate own lack of focus and preparation for the events in Brussels within GR itself.

We find it deeply ironic and disturbing that a group opposed to Globalisation and rampant free market capitalism consciously choose to advertise and actively encourage people to travel to an event like this on the most exploitative, non union, anti worker airline in this country, when there was an alternative i.e. a bus organised by socialists. Some members of GR may have some difficulty travelling on our "Socialist" bus but we believe that many more members of GR would have an even greater problem travelling with Ryan Air. The issue of the bus being a joint bus is a red herring. The key point is that, the genuine offer of co-operation from Socialist Youth was spurned on a very spurious political basis. We would like to know when and who made the decision to advertise Ryan Air and ignore our offer.

With regard to the approach to organise a joint bus, while we said that we would welcome and encourage anyone from GR to travel on our bus, we did explain that our bus had been organised for several weeks and that there were only around ten places left, which GR members were welcome to book.

The work that all of us are involved in is far too important to be cut across by such pettiness. I would now ask you to finally advertise the details of our bus.

Yours comradely,

Susan Fitzgerald
Socialist Youth / Socialist Party

While we are organising a 'Socialist Youth' bus to Brussels, it is not, as has been stated open only to 'socialists' we are encouraging trade unionists, enviromentalists, anti privatisation campaigners and anyone else who is opposed to the horror and effects of capitalism, whether in this country or internationally to travel with us. We have formally contacted many 'non-socialist' groups to travel with us.

There are still some spaces available!!

Having said that while we do and are glad to work to build GR, we think that within the anti capitalist movement as a whole there needs to be an alternative to what we are fighting i.e. capitalism - SY argue that that alternative is socialism and we will struggle to build a base for socialist ideas within GR and the broader anti capitalist movement - thats why we have particiapted in organising a 'Counter Summit' on Saturday 15th December in Brussels - this has been organised by International Socialist Resistance and will see young people from right around the World gather to discuss the anti capitalist movement - which way forward, young workers rights, racism, the war and many other things. It's not enough just to march we need to also build a movement - I'd encourage anyone interested in travelling to Brussels to travel with us.

Glad to see you folk across the water are also fighting the real enemy (ie. each other) rather than being diverted by silly talk of 'unity'!

Hey, rather than waste time going to Brussels, why not just crash your buses into each other repeatedly until all the members of the other group are stunned into submission to your clearly superior analysis (and bus-driving skills)?

I have had some bad experiences of the SWP in my time, I used to be a member at one point, but saw how they operated and bailed out ASAP. The SWP are a party that continually are flitting from campaign to campaign, from ultra left soundings to oppurtunism. In fact they are quite reformist at heart, they have no faith in the working class, this is shown in their lack of any support amongst the working class. The SWP are continually on a mission to 'recruit' & 'sell papers'.Their internal party structures are a lot to be desired, it is simply run from the top down with a complete lack of democracy. This is also evident in their cover groups such as the Irish Anti War Movement and Globalise Resistance. They are impossible to work with for any length of time at a campaign, due to their habit of dropping of things to go to the latest campaign. Just look at the War, to take up the war work they dropped loads of other campaigns such as bin tax and anti globalisation. As a result the Globalise Resistance movement could be dying out.
Come any revolutionary situation they will be all over the place, they simply have no systematic method of approach