on the "COMPLAIN TO CORPORATE MEDIA" thread there's a list of a few media contact details - I hope someone can build it up and start spreading it around - if we can persuade the media that they have strong public support for more exposure of the truth, perhaps a few more dedicated journalists will speak out without worrying so much about the consequences. Let's all try to help make that happen.

I agree numbers are a distraction, but they're clearly important to the Police, Media and the Government otherwise they wouldn't put so much effort into misreporting them.

Everyone I spoke to today said that apart from the Poll Tax demo this was the largest they had ever been on. I would echo that. Apparently someone has calculated Trafalgar Sq can hold 160,00 and today we pretty much filled it.

The quality and accuracy of the BBC has got worse and worse. It's really become a joke. Perhaps we need to start making some.

What made today so exciting was the diversity of people who all had a common purpose, and for me the highlight was the 10 year old girl leading the chanting!

A great day, and another message to Blair that he is acting without the consent of the British people and he will be held accountable for his actions.

Hard to judge how many were there because it seemed like noone was in the same place at the same time.

Like many people I felt I was somewhere in the middle but it was a very big middle. I climbed up on railings and walls but at no time could either the beginning or the end of the march.

I heard that front arrived in Trafalgar Square a considerable time before the last people had left Marble Arch. By the time we arrived in Trafalgar Square many had left already - people who like myself, had to find there coaches which were leaving at 4pm.

So difficult to say how many, certainly bigger than anything since the Gulf War March (91) which organisers estimated at 200,000.

The TV estimate is certainly a joke figure - maybe 150,000 people.

totally agree that the tv report was highly misleading.

was anybody doing a proper statistical count of the numbers? some weeks ago someone (in MWAW?) mentioned the possibility of a unversity being asked to do a verified count - did that happen?

meanwhile, the BBC have a better report on their website, which raises some issues and quotes the organisers as saying 100,000 attended...
see
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1662000/1662656.stm

It was a huge demonstration today - never have so many been kept waiting so long - fuck the media - they're all so enthralled by this government's excesses. Fuck the media - they only want violence and on this occasion the police didn't provide it. This was the best demo for a long while. Now how about Dec22nd - is that still a going concern?

Tell people about the deceitful media, just tell them what you saw. The media is always the same at anti-war rallies. So tell anyone who might doubt media bias to see for themselves.

Brrrrrrrrrr.........!

I know that people from the stop the war co were counting the demo with one of those metres that people use to count traffic (i don't know the name but you what i talking about)
they were standing as the march left Hyde Park.

I think half of the media covage was for the MPs, see no evil, hear no evil, if they close there eyes the people will dispair.

what was evedent on the demo was that the state is scared of our numbers, so its time to hit back and hit back hard they would like to do what they did to afghanistan to country around the world when ever they wish to. so what is OUR next move?

The government has obviously put the media under pressure over the reporting of the October anti-war demonstration. Although ministers only publically chastised the media in mild terms for their 'wobble', privately the government is irate at the amount of criticism it is generating. Alistair Campbell is reportedly 'on the warpath' against journalists who 'stray' from the official line, although this is no surprise as Campbell is regularly ballistic.

Editors and journalists are aware that if they upset Downing Street too much, they lose privileged access to 'leaks' and 'exclusives'. Proprietors are also a significant factor in determining media content and have the power to sack editors if they step out of line.

So really, it's not a surprise that the police and the media lied, and always lie, about the number on demonstrations. I remember the Countryside Alliance march was 'half a million' according to police figures - the police are notoriously right-wing and pro-hunting. I saw the CA march and it was less than half of what turned out at the weekend. So if we want to inflate statistics in the way the Met has with the CA's demo, then we should say a million people turned up on Sunday!

Why have expectations from corporate media? why do we ask them for 'scraps'.
The media is responsible for the state we're in. The lack of information upon which we can make impartial informed decesions.
We need to stop depending on the media period.
Learn to research to question to think.
Corporate media has to be dismantled in the same way the corporate dictatorship running our country has 2 be.

Hmm, strange, I was listening to Radio 5 for most of the evening and they give the police figure of 15 000 and the
organizers figure of 100 000.

I think your comment on the position of the item in the news
running order are a bit unfair, in most bulletins I saw/heard it straight after the various war reports, however I do agree that the item itself was far, far too short.

Hey wimp - we got warm winters on the whole - part of the quickening I believe - so why not go for the solstice? its all over the org so I believe. And only 10 years from the world party so they say. - from the non=globalist party

I don't believe anything like 100,000 people were on the demo for the very simple reason that most people agree with the war. the poll tax demos were huge because the poll tax was very unpopular. the war, I'm afraid, is not.
as for the comment about how great it was that a young girl was leading the chanting - why? I think taking kids on demos about issues they don't understand is pretty crap to be honest.

there was far more than 15,000 people, we effectively shut down inner london. the atmosphere was great and the feeling of unity in the struggle was universal. im sure the police and mass media didn't want the world to know that there are people who oppose the war.

I used to believe in the BBC. As a public sector media organisation, it has enshrined in law a principle to represent all strands of public opinion, and to uphold an ideal of public service.

Now it SHOULD, in order to fulfil these principles in this century, move away from a corporate structure and towards a federalist structure.

I quote Dennis Potter, the celebrated TV writer who spoke movingly on this, 12 months before his death, at the Edinborough TV festival: 'the BBc must continually remind itself that it is NOT a business, charged with distributing DOSH to its shareholders [it has none, BTW]. Rather it is a public organisation held IN TRUST and IN law for every citizen of this benighted group of nations we shall for not much longer call great britain and northern island...I fear the time is soon upon us when we shall no longer be called upon to save the BBC from itself, but save public broadcasting from the BBC'.

This was in 1993. Potter was right. Now, most right-thinking people do not pay their license fee. In an ideal world, if the BBC even did its duty and upheld the spirit of its charter, it is one of the few 'taxes' that I would be happy to pay. But I am one of the many who wish to withold their lisence fee on the basis that the BBC do not keep up their end of the bargain, but am not in a position to withold it because once they've got your name and address, they've got you. Otherwise it's pretty easy not to pay, but there are many who have no choice.

We should remind our selves that:
the BBC provides platforms for the BNP
the outgoing chairman Chris Bland was an agent of the countryside alliance, and excercised their influence on BBC news
the BBC repeats state propaganda while all but ignoring dissident views
disgracefully *apologised* for the open, free and frank discussion that took place after S11 on Question Time, just because a few 'disgusted of Worcester's complained.

What I'm building up to is this: it is time -well past time actually - for an organised, well supported mass boycott of the BBC license fee, backed up with effective argument and solidarity for those boycotters who will be fined or prosecuted.
Of course, this could provide just the excuse needed to privatise the BBC once and for all, so the colour and characetristics of the campaign will be critical, and should have specific agreed demands.
I believe in my heart of hearts - because I owe it so much - that the BBC can be reformed. But if not, then it is time for the Beeb to step aside and allow others more qualified - such as indymedia - to take over the important remit of public service news, entertainment, informaTION AND EDUCATION.

why is taking kids on demos crap? if they don't understand the issues, teach them, teach them to think. if you don't, someone else will be only too pleased to teach your children what they believe your children should be thinking.

Yesterday's march was a huge success and senior police may have been deliberately lying over the numbers present, which they put at 15,000, 5,000 less than the earlier march in October.

The point about the numbers is not central, but it seems to me that the police have been caught more or less red-handed in a real whopper. The numbers are always disputed, but by putting the figure at less than the previous march the police have collided head-on with reality. The organisers report (see below) that the march took twice as long to depart Hyde Park.

An Inspector I talked to at the departure point also gave a figure of 20,000 to 40,000 as reported independently by the organisers. The number of people at any one time in Trafalgar Square was about the same but many always leave after a short time there, the weather was much colder and the period was longer this time.

The march should have had less people on it, but it had more. In the poor weather there were many fewer families and older people, and the end of the war had virtually been proclaimed on the media. The composition had changed a little too, from where I was it seemed there were more from the left, fewer from the greens and the peace movement and more younger people.

What has changed since the last march to increase the support? Perhaps the realisation that the US is likely to move on and escalate the alleged war with attacks on more countries. Perhaps also a judgement by connected movements (ie global justice) that this is likely to be a pivotal issue for some time longer.

There follows a press release from the Stop the War Coalition...

Ian Henshall

NEWS RELEASE: Monday 19 November 2001
MEDIA CONTACTS: Lindsey German 07810 540584 and Andrew Murray 07773 764455

* Stop the War Coalition demo - how many turned out?
"Police figures for anti-war demo lack all credibility"
The anti-war movement, the police and the numbers game

Stop the War Coalition today criticised police for grossly
underestimating the numbers who turned up for Sunday's anti-war demonstration in London.

"No one doubts that Sunday's demonstration was easily the largest anti-war event yet held in Britain," said Lindsey German, convenor of the Stop the War Coalition steering committee. "Police estimates of 15,000 lack all credibility.

"Police estimated the last major national anti-war event in London, on 13 October, at 20,000. Organisers estimated 50,000. According to newspaper reports, this Sunday's demonstration was considerably larger - we believe twice as large - as last month's, yet police would have us believe it was 25% smaller.

"As the march left Hyde Park, police told organisers that their initial estimate, at that time, was 30,000 - that is, 50 per cent larger than the march on 13 October. We indicated immediately that we believed the number to be much higher. It appears that police estimates were downgraded after the demonstration.

"Could it be that the police succumbed to political pressure from Downing Street to massage the figures downwards?"

"Our estimate of 100,000 was based on extensive and separate counts made by organisers who repeatedly walked the length of the march and who, later, viewed the full crowd overflowing Trafalgar Square from all angles.

"It took more than two hours for all the marchers to exit Hyde Park - twice as long as on 13 October.

"The real news is that anti-war feeling in Britain is clearly on the rise and the size and diversity of the demonstration confirmed that reality - clearly, an uncomfortable one for the government."

WWW.MWAW.ORG

I read in one of David Suzuki's books for any good news story they need one of three things either sex appeal, a celebrity or violence. It is unfortunatly so true, I'm not saying this is what should be done, not at all. You'd think 100 000 people what get you a shit load of air time. I just thought it might shed some light, or make you hate the media more.