PAKISTAN: Interview with US Committee for Refugees official
ISLAMABAD, 9 Nov 2001 (IRIN)

The US Committee for Refugees has issued recommendations regarding the Afghan refugees and displaced, following a nine-day visit to Pakistan by Hiram Ruiz, its communications director. Ruiz told IRIN that the closure of the Pakistan border had certainly helped trap people seeking asylum.

While it was unclear if an official opening of the border into Pakistan would prompt a huge influx, it was clear from recent arrivals he had interviewed near Peshawar, in the North West Frontier Province, that the coalition bombing campaign was a major reason for civilian flight from Afghanistan's urban centres.

Although the displaced inside Afghanistan were currently at the top of the humanitarian agenda, Ruiz believed that more needed to be done, institutionally, by the international community to ensure that internally displaced persons did not continue to fall between two stools.


QUESTION: You've been in Pakistan for nine days, looking mainly at the conditions of refugees here. What are your initial views on this?

ANSWER: We're looking primarily at refugees, but also at displaced populations inside the country. In addition to those displaced before 11 September, there are hundreds of thousands of people who have become displaced in the last few weeks. These are people who have largely gone to villages and rural areas where the host population is already stretched. This is a very vulnerable population.

The next step was to look at the border. What is the impact of the fact that Pakistan refuses to permit entry to Afghan refugees? One impact is that people have come up to the border and been unable to get in, and are now concentrated near the border in impromptu camps that are being run by groups with questionable interests, where conditions are known to be unsatisfactory.

What are conditions for those that did not make it to the border, knowing that it was closed, or knowing that they would have no one to come to here in Pakistan? They remain in areas where they are vulnerable, not only because of a lack of food, but to the ongoing violence that is occurring inside the country. So by keeping the border closed to refugees, it's helping to trap people in a place where they are in danger.

Q: Based on your assessment, if Pakistan opened its border [with Afghanistan], do you anticipate a huge flood of people into the country?

A: UNHCR and other agencies have looked at this situation and estimated how many people might come over. It could be hundreds of thousands, it could be a million people. The international community has said that it would commit [itself] to assisting this population. We stressed in our recommendations that this commitment could not just be temporary, that it would have to last until people could safely return home.

We say that in recognition of the fact that one of Pakistan's main complaints is that in previous years they have permitted large numbers of Afghan refugees to come in, and while temporary assistance was there from the international community, that assistance did not remain and left Pakistan in a situation that the government says was burdensome for it.

Q: With over two million already in the country, Pakistan is very wary of having more refugees come over. In the wake of [UN High Commissioner for Refugees] Ruud Lubbers's visit, do you see any flexibility in their position?

A: Not significantly, no. I think the government has taken a very strong and clear position that it does not want to permit entry to refugees. It is being very intransigent on that. If you look at the numbers, Pakistan has only [officially] permitted entry to a couple of thousand people, some vulnerable people who have come through Baluchistan at Killi Faizo. Other people have come in, but through unofficial channels.

Q: What's the situation with the 120,000-odd unofficial refugees in Pakistan?

A: These are locally referred to as the "invisibles". Invisible because they came in unofficially and dispersed and did not come forward or identify themselves. However, if you stand outside the UNHCR office in Peshawar, many are looking for help. These are people who had the means to get into Pakistan. Some probably brought resources to see them through a period of time. The vast majority had somebody to come to - a relative or friend that they intended to stay with and who has taken them in.

Only a small number went to Jalozai. I interviewed some of those new arrivals at Jalozai. They basically had enough to get across the border, but nothing to survive on there and nobody that would help them. Most are with families and relatives - themselves old refugees - living in old camps or the city - struggling to survive. For every week that goes by, that situation is becoming more untenable for the host family and refugees. We need to find ways to try and bring help to that population.

A: How do you see that happening? Do you see the Pakistani authorities and UNHCR reaching an agreement whereby these "invisible" refugees are given an official status and sent to prepared camps?

Q: These invisibles are being considered for the camps that UNHCR has prepared. But I think that before UNHCR could call upon people to identify themselves and register to move to such a camp - voluntarily of course. People would need two assurances: one that they would be properly assisted there. Second, they want some assurance of their safety and protection. They'll want to know what their status is, that they're not going to be put into these camps and be deported in a month or two, if the situation doesn't warrant repatriation. And third, they will want to know what physical protection there will be, especially as these camps are in remote locations.

Q: It seems that those coming out into Pakistan, while in a serious condition, have relatively more resources than those that remain within the country. What are your main concerns with respect to these internally stranded people?

A: Clearly the concern is being able to get in sufficient food to feed them through the winter months. This is what the focus of the international relief effort is. Everything is being done to achieve that in a situation that is not conducive to it, because of the ongoing conflict. My special concern is for those that have become displaced recently. In the eastern areas, NGOs have indicated that they will be able to try and redouble their efforts to assist these newly arrived people.

Every effort should be made to assist them where they are. However, if people need protection - then food alone is not the answer. When governments talk about a flood of refugees, not all [the] vulnerable in Afghanistan may feel they need the protection afforded to refugees. Many people, if properly assisted, may not see that need.

Q: Is there evidence that people are fleeing the bombardments as well as the reported breakdown in law and order?

A: I think that evidence is clear. I met with refugees in Peshawar and Jalozai, and for most the bombing was one of the main reasons for coming. For those newly displaced inside Afghanistan, the bombing is one of the main reasons for their displacement. Our first recommendation that we make addresses this issue: that all the parties [to the conflict] must respect the Geneva conventions [and the] need to safeguard the civilians during military operations. Our sense is that perhaps the Geneva conventions are not being adhered to as strictly as they should be.

Q: Does this mean you would recommend a pause or halt to the bombing of the city centres?

A: I don't think that we can be issuing thoughts on military operations, per se, other then what we have stated in the recommendations. The Geneva conventions are very clear about what is and isn't allowed. Our belief is that what is happening at the moment is not following the letter of the Geneva conventions.

Q: What's your sense of the coming winter? Do you think that aid agencies are going to be able to get enough assistance into some of these isolated parts of the country, some of these displaced groups, bearing in mind the ongoing conflict and the complexities of working through winter?

A: It's clear that they are not. It may be that even without the events of 11 September they would not have been able to, because the need is massive. Clearly now [with recent events], less people will be reached and more at risk. In Pakistan too. The situation in Jalozai is not sufficiently better than last winter to guarantee that they will survive. One of our recommendations is that the Pakistan government permit UNHCR to take steps to finally improve the situation at Jalozai. This will require thinning out of the population there.

While harder to control the situation in Afghanistan, it would be unconscionable for people to again die in Jalozai this winter because the government had not given the go-ahead for that population to be assisted. [Ed: UNHCR advised IRIN that movements of people from Jalozai to new camps was scheduled for next week].

Q: There has been a lot of discussion about how to address [the] displaced crisis, and whether an organisation needs to be designed for this. Do you think that an operational agency should be created to try and address the complexities of the displaced issues? Currently the responsibility lies with OCHA [Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs]. But should UNHCR's mandate be extended to include displaced, or should it be a new entity?

A: That's a very complex issue that the international community has been grappling with for several years now. We don't have the answer. We are concerned that internally displaced persons continue to fall between the cracks - in many countries, not specifically Afghanistan, where this group is high on the agenda. But the system still fails the internally displaced, and somehow this needs to be resolved.

The UN keeps seeking new ways - there was the creation of the office of the special representative of internally displaced persons, then OCHA. They're still struggling with it, but the answer is still not there.

The full recommendations regarding Afghan refugees and displaced can be found on the US Committee for Refugees website; www.refugees.org


[ENDS]