As an anarchist i see that there has never been a period of "peacefulness". While the people of the west may have lived in an obscure honeymoon period of "peacefulness" the people living in Chiapas, West Bank and other troubled areas of the world have not. They have had to endure the destructive fist of the state. Most of these states are supported by the United States.

Sure IF bin ladin was involved some sort of justice should be given to the people of New York and Washington but then again has justice ever been given to those people who lived under the harsh regime of the Taliban. Lets not forget the Taliban is a nightmare that the "civilised" governments of the west, especially the United States cursed the people of Afghanistan with. Now the US is going to curse those same people with another fundamentalist government, that of the Northern Alliance.

Robert, you talk of no innocent people in Afghanistan, is the Afghan child with no limbs, blown off from American forces not innocent, or is he just another terrorist. The United States has targeted civilians for quite some time. Vietnam is just one incident. Carpet bombing of cities for the sake of trying to wipe out a few Viet Cong. I would rather call that blood thirst.

What do we know of what is happening in Afghanistan, how do we know that the footage on SKY, CNN and ABC isnt just minor bombings, the bombings we are only allowed to see, while the US carpet bombs the rest of Afghanistan. The media are lying to us, the governments are lying to us.

Sadly Robert appears to be a victim of American nationalism and flag waving where a child blown apart can be seen as collateral damage and a minor error in a somewhat "successful campaign".

GET REAL...
ITS ALL FUCKIN LIES

Well Robert you seem to have researched you non-opinion well... least of all considering you cannot spell Bin Laden properly ( at least they way 99% of the rest of the World is spelling it )???

More importantly you are missing a few fundamental points:

The US created monsters like Bin Laden to carry out attrocities in the Cold War. This is a widely known thing.

I haven't seen the final figures but I doubt that every single person in the WTC was a US citizen... not that it would make much difference to me where they came from. I think ALL human life is sacred...

The Taliban are not a "party"; your error suggests that there is a democracy in Aghanistan. The Taliban are neither elected nor do they "rule" the *whole* of Aghanistan.

Do you know what The School of Americas is? Do a search on the internet mr Piety.

You heard of the phrases "What goes around comes around" or "You reap what you sow!"?

Unfortunately, it is usually the "small,ignorant andinsignificant" people who pay the price for governments total disregard for humanity and human life. THIS time the West was on the receiving end. I'd prefer to take that as a wake up call NOT to repeat the same mistakes we have been making for the last 50 years ( at least )!

Do you know that the people our governments are enlisting in the Muslim/Arabian world for support are little better than the Taliban?

Do you know the UN are calling for the US to stop bombing?

Do you know that most of the people killed so far have been civillians?

Do you know that the aid dropped is lesss than enough for 1% of the starving for ONE day?


Lastly, I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and provide a link here to a scan of your enlistement papers Mr Tough Guy!

Or are planning to be billeted at Couch Hill for the last big push at the battle of the Doritos? Just another CNN commando?

Thought so.

Get back to your Bund meeting and stick to beating up foreigners; construcive verbal discourse is not your forte.

Oh BTW:

When can Israel, Chile, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Columbia, Mexico, Korea, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and the UK etc etc etc get to bomb US civillians for harbouring and supporting terrorists like Kissinger, Pinochet, Hussein, Klaus Barbie, Noriaga...

Go get an opinion and stop regurgitating CNN here please.

 http://www.soaw.org/home.html

dear rob,

people everywhere are branding americans as ignorant, stupid and jsut fucking evil at the moment. Alot of americans are tryign to stand up to this and try and prove the ppl accusing them wrong. You obivously want to be branded and idiot.

Has it ever crossed your tiny tiny tiny mind that maybe sept 11 was a revenge attack? maybe the rest of the world has just had enough of this american imperialist bullshit. America and its poodles are now not on a revenege operation. They are just murdering and destroying afgnistans infrastructure. The revenge has happened, it has proved nothing apart from that america (and the MAJORITY of americans) are so fuckign stupid that they can only think of treating violence with violence....

peace

oh shit rob.. try and answer on threads you start

I don't want to sound patronising, Robert, but I think you only have 1% of the whole story - only a very small part of the big picture. Hence, I'm not surprised about your comments.

US Citizens are subjected to a total 'control of the public mind' and have very little access to opposing points of view - at least in terms of 'mainstream' mass media.

I used to live in the USA, and I remember how my world-view changed quite considerably after a few years living abroad.

Your arguments are somewhat valid, considering the information that you have and the premises you hold - unfortunately, many of them are false or incomplete.

Please understand that the situation is more complex than The Good (freedom, justice, peace-loving America) vs. The Evil (fundamentalist, terrorist, totalitarian Afghanistan).

This is the way it has been framed by the US and is a convenient to get the civilian population to become complacent in the atrocities commited in their name.

Please Please PLEASE do not fall for blind-'patriotism' (since when is it patriotic to shutup and not ask questions? To cease being critical?) and flag-waving. Please start reading some foreign papers or websites, at the very least, to get a contrasting point of view to balance the propaganda you hear from Fox news and CNN.

You might want to also investigate, as suggested, the
'School of Americas' and America's foreign policy in
the Middle-east and Latin America (You might want to
start with the US backing of the Contras in Nicaragua
or the US backing, funding and support of Indonesia's
invasion of East Timor in which 200,000 East Timorese
were killed or died of starvation and disease as a
result).

regards,

UK resident, international citizen.

Poor Robert, if he had a brain-cell, it would be lonely. His government's lies, propaganda and disinformation clearly hasn't been lost on him. Let's hope like his non-existent brain cells, he is in a tiny minority, or we are all truly fucked, like the Afghanis starving in their millions because of his wonderful country, America.

How is it that the dumbest fuckwits on the planet are running things, this guy should be put out of his misery ..

I hope that the american people will one day wake up !

Quote:
As an American, I say that this period of un-peacefulness was instigated
by terrorists murdering over 5,000 of my countrymen! I'll be DAMNED if
I'll hear of peace now! They started it, we'll finish it.

This could easily have been:
As a Palestinian, I say that this period of un-peacefulness was instigated by America which has murdered thousands of my countrymen through the arming of Israel in Palestine! I'll be DAMNED if I'll hear of peace now! They started it, we'll finish it. Thats why we are supporting this jihad against America!

Don't you see was this very atittude that led to the deaths of those people in the WTC in the first place.

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

--Hitler's #2 Man, Hermann Goering

I thought Steelgates reply to Roberts assertions excellent and many of the rest were helpful. I hope Robert reads and ponders them. And ponder this too - you assert that "as for the "innocent" people of Afghanistan, people get the
governments they deserve". That's saying, in effect, that the industrialised murder of millions of Jews, socialists, trade unionists, gypsies, homosexuals, and disabled by the Nazi government of Germany was OK. And the victims of countless other tyrants got the government they "deserved".

My worry is that in the guise of the G8, WTO and IMF, we are going to get the Global Government we "deserve".

yes terorrists murdered 5000 innocent civillians, but who were the terrorists workin for, bin laden a known cia operative has a joint bank account wif an american oil baron, there is evidence of insider tradin on the stock market on the days prior to the tt tragedy, some of the companies who indulged in this were american airlines, morgan stanley dean withers, and how can u expect us to believe that the cia/secret services had no intelligence about the planned attack, at the very least they turned a blind eye, but at the worst they colluded and were actively involved in the attack. who is the war hurtin most, certainly not rich saudi fuk bin laden, who is holed up in his luxury bunker, as befitttin a person of his wealth and status in life, neither him or the neonazi hierarchal taliban give a fuk about their own ordinary dirt poor peasants who cannot afford a fukin bunker, this is goin to be another gulf war debacle where ordinary iraqis die like flies, and our own ordinary ground troops r exposed to depleted uranium, whilst soddem hussein is livin it up in his luxury bunker, remains untouched and alive to continue torturing his own dirt poor peasant citizens to this day. pointless and futile bombin which is just a pr show, pretendin to hate and target bin laden, who i can forsee will not be apprehended why? becos he is a cia operative, just like soddem was not brought to justice, why becos hes a fukin cia operative too. i mean they can bring milosevic to trial, but they cannot touch soddem? why? wats wrong wif this picture, well i suppose at least the arms dealers and warpigs get to play wif their fukin toys, but unfortunately the ordinary dirt poor already oppressed straving afgans just like the helpless iraqis and kurds must suffer once again, this time its the west who r murderin them, not the taliban or soddem, i suppose theyll be laughin in their bunkers its one less peasant afgani or kurd that they hav to murder themselves, now that we are doing the job for bin laden and his henchmen.

Absolutely deathlist. This really is one startling piece of evidence over insider trading, by perhaps a true journalist - Chris Blackhurst of the Independent on Sunday. See 'Mystery of terror insider dealers' today, page 8.
'it has also emerged that the firm used to buy many of the 'put' options - where a trader, in effect, bets on a share price fall - on United Airlines stock was headed until 1998 by 'Buzzy' Krongard, now executive director of the CIA' Later - the priceless giveaway - 'There is no suggestion that Mr Krongard had advance knowledge of the attacks' Of course he did.

If the majority of Yankees have this opinion (as seems to be the case now) then the September 11th attack was totally justified, and many more need to come. Lets wipe this backward, moronic empire from the face of the planet. Scumfucks.

The original poster tries to justify killing Afghan civilians by saying "you get the government you deserve". This is the central claim of all nationalism, that people belong to their government, so can be killed (and should volunteer to die) for it. It's daft.

But by the same token, let's not start having a go at all Americans either. There are plenty of US citizens who oppose Bush and his war (whatever the mainstream media claims). Anti-American racism is still racism.