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A ridiculous protest in London: some comments

hjk | 09.10.2001 10:05

The antiwar demonstration on Monday in London: comments about a movement thats bound not to grow unless it changes direction very quickly.

I am not British but I happen to live in this country, in which the media are shamelessly conducting a pro-war campaign. I was astonished on Sunday evening when no TV channel has changed their programs to broadcast news on the war or at least a talk show where different points of view are debated. Only quite late some more news were given. According to the British TV channels Sunday evening was a normal evening.
Ask anybody in the rest of Europe: they will tell you that their TVs have promptly interrupted all programs to discuss the attacks and to give news. Had they not done so, there would have been massive protests. Noone complained in Britain.

I was also astonished to see that no clear news (and no visible news at all) had been given about the demonstration that was taking place in London that evening. Not only, but the demonstration on Monday evening was very poorly advertised (to my knowledge only by a post on indymedia uk and by www.resist.org.uk, although the times given did not agree).

I have been at the antiwar protest on Monday evening in London and I was impressed by the disastrous organization. What I found in (a corner of) Trafalgar square was a small group of people with little intention of making themselves visible. No information was being given to people around the square, or in the neighboring streets. No music, no noise (yes, they are important to make people notice the demonstration); two (competing?) groups of speakers were talking, one hidden in the back of the small crowd.

At some point someone tried to give me a no-war banner where one quarter of the visible space was taken by the socialist alliance logo. I am sorry, I am not socialist, but yet I am against the war. So I didnt accept the banner, eventually I took a socialist worker poster and I ripped off the part where it said socialist worker. I listened to the speeches for a while and almost every speaker wanted to make propaganda for their own ideas. The slogan no class war but the class war was shouted several times. Fine to me if they think so, but maybe I dont agree with that so I feel I have joined a demonstration where my presence is being exploited to make statements different from "I disagree with the war"; and I find this extremely irritating.

As someone on indymedia has mentioned already, several people were selling a variety of socialist/communist magazines. Fine to me if you sell them from a stand only, but it looks quite ridiculous if no less than 20 people ask me if I want to buy one. Not the right place, sorry.

Suddenly and without notice a group of people started moving towards Downing Street leaving one the speaker I was listening to wordless. What impression can this give, but of a fragmented and unorganised movement? The crowd followed very quickly (why? the point in a demonstration is to occupy the street for the longest possible time and be visible).

We then stood in front of Downing Street for a while, the police took lots of pictures, some press photographers took lots of pictures, some demonstrators took lots of pictures. Some speeches were given and then everybody left without making too much noise.

I don't want my comments to be negative for anyone; I am glad that someone called for a demonstration, but it was honestly the smallest and worst one I have ever been to. And the antiwar movement in Britain will not manage to grow if things are organised in this way.

As a little aside, a very practical advice: it would not be a bad idea to have one or more stands in London where volunteers give clean news about the war and the protests, all day, seven days a week; I stress that this has been made in hundreds of towns in Europe during the Gulf War, and it is perfectly feasible.

hjk

Comments

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Agree and Disagree

09.10.2001 10:21

I disagree with a couple of comments - firstly the demo had over 1500 people at it, some have said up to 2000 not a bad total when you consider it was put together very quickly indeed and like you say it was not advertised widely in advance (something to do with Bush and Blair not telling us when they were going to start bombing in advance).

As to things being a bit confused, well this is because it was not a fully organised and stewarded event - I'd rather have seen the diversity than everyone under control of one organising group (though for example there will soon be a sit down NVDA protest organised by Arrow where what is expected of people will be spelt out).

As to signs and placcards with socialist stuff on them etc, well it does annoy me that you get these groups who plaster their own branding on placcards and stickers - but if you don't want one of these then make your own! - it's really not very difficult and doesn't take very long!

Also on a similar note some people brought along drums to make a noise - which is great, they acted as individuals and brought what they'd like to find, easy. NB Some protests and vigils have been organised by specific groups who lay down their own guidelines (like no banners no chanting) which is fine because they have organised the protest and people should respect their requests. Last night saw many groups all doing their own thing which was great.

I wouldn't call it ridiculous at all mate.

(ps couldnt you have posted this below one of the other reports about yesterdays protest rather than as a new item in the NEWSwire?)

PS


yes... but no! (an answer to PS)

09.10.2001 11:02

My comment was posted in the newswire because I think it is a very important one. Thats also why it has the nasty tone it has, at the risk of being very unpopular.

No, I do not think 1500 people are a lot for London (when I say that I compare it with the numbers in other European cities); no I do not think it was put advertised well (I myself honestly had problems getting information about it, and consider that I was expecting one and I was keen to join it already); and one day is enough time to organise a demo. Yes there were two drummers, and I was glad to see them, but the war has been expected for a month; a good organisation would have some more people ready to go and play.
Diversity is definitely a good thing but this was simply not organised; it just gave me the impression that the two groups of speakers had not communicated with each other.

The comment about signs was aimed to the people who produced them. Commendable that they did (no shit: excellent idea): but they would have been 1000 times more useful if they were clean. And you cant ask too much from individuals joining a demo that you called for; and in fact the organisers knew since they brought those signs. Not everyone is an activist, but many people want to express their dissent. Besides its quite unpleasant for me to stand in a crowd where all the banners have the branding of a group whose ideas I dont' share (and this was not the case luckily).
Also, I didnt know about the guidelines, but I think it is clear that my comment was an invitation to change them if they exist.

hjk


I agree

09.10.2001 11:15

I passed the anti-war demo on Monday night and thought it was pretty crap. Nothing against people who turned up, ad I don't want to attack people who believe that they want to affirm their opposition to war, but shouldn't we be doing a bit better? I think it was the sight of lefties walking into a police pen where they could sell each other papers that got me.

If we don't get beyond this SWP idea that war is a good opportunity to sell papers and increase recruitment we're fucked. We have experience of doing stuff to prevent capitalism destroying things - why not use it?

=


Don't be so

09.10.2001 11:31

Look mate if you can't tolerate alternative opinions at demo's it's your fucking problem. You don't have to buy a lefty paper nor do you have to hold a socialist alliance banner...make your own placard be original. It is great that you can see that this war is crap and like all wars socialist oppose them on the grounds that they never solve anything for ordinary people. Big business, politicians and the media have always loved a good battle..it makes them profit, gives massive readership and distracts from pressing social problems such as privatisation and poverty. Most socialists are not protesting against this war for self interest, self interest is the very antithesis of socialism. I respect you may not be of a socialist point of view but don't criticise us for expressing what we see war is all about! We have often been virtually isolated in our critique of war but i believe quite right in highlighting the immorality and sickening hypocrisy of the warmongers who purport to speak in our name. So please come to more demo's and as the last bloke commented if you want to shape it..make some noise, bring your mates, make an independant banner...most socialists whatever party they are in would welcome independant protestors and are quite prepared to discuss and accept different views. There will be a massive demo on saturday assembling in hyde park organised by CND, people from all backgrounds will attend from Christians, Muslims to Socialists and Pacifistsm, and most of all people who just don't agree with the bombing of Afganistan and Bush's policy of nuclear proliferation. You should come down and you may be more encouraged by what you see.
By the way i don't think your view justified a newswire slot as it was an opinion, albeit a valid one.

Solidarity, Peace and Socialism

Griesoncat
- Homepage: www.socialistalliance.net


monday in london

09.10.2001 11:42

I am an italian guy who lives in london. i went to the demostration on monday and it was quite good. i don't think in england the movement is strong as in other countries, but there were many people who wanted to say something in the street and it was good.
but i don't understand how we could accept that the police is inside the march with us. this is stupid. i was just walking when a policeman pushed me without any reasons. shit. this my march, you are not welcome here. why do you tollerate this kind of situation?
and why couldn't we stopped tyhe traffic in the street?
was it not fair enough??
see you on saturday...always against this stupid war
andrea

andrea
mail e-mail: andreamignano@yahoo.co.uk


Welcome to the corporate media

09.10.2001 11:44

Welcome to the corporate media. Not sure where you are from but the media here generally plays the corporate tune. They never give news of protests before they happen (unless they are sure a lot of people have already heard of them). This is also why there are often not as many people on protests here on the UK. That and the polices mostly successful tactic of either causing I riot (See film, The Battle of Trafalgar, Spectacle Productions) or hurdling people (including journalists) into a small area and penning them in. This has actually lead to the NUJ (National Union of Journalists) Suing the police over events last Mayday. One journalist even missed his New York deadline! This is why independent media is so important!

Neb
- Homepage: http://www.videonetwork.org


thanks for your comments

09.10.2001 12:33

I thank everybody for their comments :))

to Griesoncat:
my comment was to be taken as the comment of an individual who has taken part in the demo and will take part in all of the next demos, whoever organises them. It was a very practical comment; I have organised demos before. It was a comment from outside the organisation telling the organisers how people possibly see them. I am absolutely glad that you express what you think about war. But yesterdays demo seemed to me to be rather monopolised by some political groups. In this way you legitimate the media to say oh, it was only this two groups, noone else. If the general context of a demo is more neutral many more people will join in. Plus, I guess the urgent aim was to do something to stop the war, not to call for a class war.

to Andrea:
yes, some foreign mates of mine and I have found it equally astonishing. By the way stupid war is a pleonasm.

to Neb:
I wasn't talking about the corporate media; it's more than obvious that you shouldn't rely on them. But as I said I have found it difficult to find out about the demo.

hjk


unrelated banners

09.10.2001 14:19

I dont't see the problem with people putting their logo on their banners, it doesn't make you one of them. What bothers me though is people who had (huge) banners that were totaly unrelated. (ie. some firefighters union)

That protest wasn't about globalisation, privatisation, etc. It was about THE WAR. Some people might think that these are related, but it's probably not everybody's opinion. There are probably people out there who are for the privatisation of firefighters, and against the war.

I'm not against people voicing their opinions at protests, but there are limits at wich you will put people off who would've come otherwise (and I'm not saying this attitude is right either, but it happens)

Was this a protest against the war, or was it a protest to claim how nasty capitalists are ???

Anselm

PS. Sorry if this was posted twice, but the server told me it was busy and couldn't perform my request... And i had to retype it...

anselm


the point of banners

09.10.2001 16:00

the point of having a firefighters union banner on the anti-war demo is simple enough - to represtent the fact that fire fighters were there opposing the war. Opposition to the war comes from many types of people - why should fire fighters not be allowed to take their banner. I think its brilliant that a group of organised workers wanted to make their presence known on such a demonstration. When i'm on a demo i want to be able to see all the variety of others that are there backing the same cause as i am.

jay


let's be honest here

12.10.2001 00:02

PS, I was at the demo on Monday too and the estimate of 1500-2000 people is perhaps a little exaggerated.

I'm english but have spent quite a few years living on mainland europe and it is just a fact that there is a more broad range appeal and solidarity betewwn 'euro' citizens than here in the UK.

Protests and demos can be arranged very quickly by people just taking to the streets. They don't need dragging out of their beds if the calling comes. We as people, shouldn't need 'organising'.

Usually the people with the signs are the *only* people out protesting. Everyone is at home, disenfranchised from political discourse reading the Sun newspaper. The trouble with the Brits is that they also don't feel much of an afinity with other nations. not suprising really if they've gone through the state school system of one of the countries with a v. aggressive foreign policy. It just wouldn't do would it to criticise one's country?

What I saw was a load of people doing very much what they were told and not causing a fuss. How very british it all was.

People here should wake up and ask themselves is it acceptable that 35% of British kids live in poverty.

in more hope