S30 IMF/World Bank, now Labour Party Conf in Brighton

Media Hor | 15.08.2001 09:50

Media friendly Globalise Resistance have hit the headlines again with their "anarchist plot" :-) to disrupt Labour Party Conference on September 30th. There's a counter conference in London beforehand. Check their website www.resist.org.uk

THE TIMES:
WEDNESDAY AUGUST 15 2001
G8 anarchists to target Blair
ANARCHIST demonstrators who took part in the riots at the G8 summit in Genoa last month are plotting a massive protest against Tony Blair to disrupt the start of the Labour Party conference in Brighton next month.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001282735,00.html

NB The Times goes on to say organisers "are meeting in secret this saturday" to plan their tactics for disruption -WELL NO SORRY AGAIN DEAR OLD FRIENDS AT THE TIMES!!!
GO PEDDLE YOUR LIES ELSEWHERE!!

The meeting is public, is organised by Globalise Resistance, and has been advertised widely as:

SATURDAY 18th AUGUST 2pm
CONWAY HALL
RED LION SQUARE
LONDON
(Holborn tube)

GUARDIAN:
Globalisation protesters target Labour conference
Anti-globalisation protesters are planning a huge demonstration to disrupt the first day of the Labour party conference.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/story/0,9061,536710,00.html

Blockade faces Blair at Brighton
Genoa protesters plot Labour conference demo

http://www.guardian.co.uk/globalisation/story/0,7369,537022,00.html

ITN:
Protesters plan to target Brighton
Up to 10,000 anti-globalisation protesters are expected to descend on Brighton for the first day of the Labour Party conference, it is being claimed.

http://itn.co.uk/news/20010814/britain/15brighton.shtml

==============

Previous story re Brighton Conference S30:

http://uk.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=8332

Media Hor

Comments

Hide the following 31 comments

GR

15.08.2001 12:09

Is it just me or is their something slightly amusing about Guy Taylor (GR/SWP) saying that:

"I use the term 'conference' with hesitation, as it is admitted and widely accepted that any debate or decisions taken at the conference are totally ignored by the upper echelons of the Labour party."

The words, pot, kettle and black spring to mind!

cia
mail e-mail: b@man.com

Will Blair relocate?

15.08.2001 12:22

Will Blair follow the example of the G8 and relocate the Labour Party conference to somewhere 'remote'? Possible examples for discussion include the Welsh former mining valleys, the former farming communities of Cumbria and Devon, the former textile producing towns in the north, etc, etc. No doubt he'll find plenty of friends there.

Dan Brett
mail e-mail: dan@danielbrett.co.uk

wtf

15.08.2001 12:55

hey
leave guy alone he's nice
and at GR we take everyones views and ideas very seriously
thats why we're planning a public speaking area
out side the conference
so that in spite of it being a conference for politicains some informed debate, and views of real people will be heard

leon
Homepage: www.livejournal.com/users/punk182

Nice Guy?

15.08.2001 13:39

Guy may be a nice person but that doesn't change the fact that he is an SWP apparatchik and that the SWP is an authoritarian organisation who established GR to increase their membership in the wake of the 'anti-capitalist' movement.

Also, the idea that GR is open and takes everyone's ideas seriously is patently not true. I know that members of Workers Power and Revolution (neither of whom I agree with or support) have asked to have speakers at numerous GR events and are consistently turned down because of long-running WP/SWP animosities.

I can guarantee that the 'public speaking area' will be dominated by the SWP's usual bunch of speakers.

cia
mail e-mail: b@man.com

guy taylor 'nice guy' ?

15.08.2001 15:21

guy taylor has an odd knack of appearing in almost every left wing umbrella front grouping, designed of course to neutralise every revolutionary movement, in order to appeal to the alleged left in the labour party. but what has he actually DONE to get his new found media prominence ?

avoid him. i dont know what he's up to, or his colleagues. he has an entourage of creeps who follow him around; they're swp, but not as polished as he, and are perhaps hoping some of the crumbs from his table will fall on the floor. odd how the bourgeois end up running the swp, innit ?

p. layton

Not true

15.08.2001 15:32

Actually, I must disagree that GR is simply an organ run for just the SWP. I was invited to speak at a GR meeting in Colchester after I stood as a Green party candidate in the 2001 local elections. I turned it down on the basis that I am crap at public speaking. But I didn't feel that they were overtly SWP, although I've no doubt that the SWP plays a role in GR. I don't know why people would dismiss it simply because it contains SWP activists. So what?

Daniel Brett
mail e-mail: dan@danielbrett.co.uk

SWP - Newspapers

15.08.2001 15:41

I have always been a little suspicious of the SWP for an orgainsation that wants to end capitalism they seem to be mainly concerned with selling their newspapers. Now ive got nothing agains the transfer of information but their ability to jump on every single bandwagon annoys me AND one of them called me a facist becouse I wouldnt by a newspaper (this was 4 years ago but Im still annoyed!)

Joseph

SWP bashing

15.08.2001 17:22

Why all the SWP bashing - if nothing else it is really tiresome and boring. I am a member of the SWP, and when I joined I considered myself to be an anarchist. The reason I joined was that I was impressed by the work they do and the fact that they manage to get loads of people out to demos and have a big presence - to me that meant that they are a serious organisation and do some good work, not that they are trying to dominate everything. I must apologise to the person who was called a fascist for not buying a paper - that is inexcusable. However, the days of sectarianism are over now. We have a new movement in which all involved have to work together despite their differences. To continue being hostile to other groups (and I am sure there are still SWP members who are like this) is just completely immature and to me seems that people who indulge in that are not serious about building a movement to overthrow capitalism. By the way, notice that I have given my name and not some mysterious pseudonym - who are the real sinister people?

Ben Neal
mail e-mail: devrim2000uk@yahoo.co.uk

To Ben!

15.08.2001 17:43

Big up to ben, who says he 'thought' he was an anarchist when he joined the SWP! Hope you know where you went wrong with that one.

I have also been admonished by SWP members because "they" thought they were "anarchists before they joined the SWP". I was even told that Anarchists "don't care about homeless people because they deserve to be there" - errrrrr - is this the intellectual ineptitude of the average SWP member?Perhaps the SWP picks up a number of people who are inexperienced and simply don't know what anarchism is about?

I have included a link to my website as there are links there for info. about anarchism (and some other libertarian stuff - namely cannabis) just in case anyone else is confused.

Sincerely.

ZeroZero
Homepage: http://www.pcworks.demon.co.uk

can we have some constructive debate please?!

15.08.2001 21:55

look dudes, we can all trade bad stories about each other - if I had a penny for everytime people on this site mispresent my politics by saying things like 'the swp want to be the new government blah, blah....' or misue words like 'authoritarian' then I would be a rich man....

but here's an idea why not have some REAL debate rather than sniping...

possible topics?

take your pick: globalisation, anti-capitalism etc....

then maybe this site would get some better posts to it!

;-) fraternally,

noel

noel
mail e-mail: noel@desiderium.org

Greens welcome you

15.08.2001 21:56

You could always join the Greens. We don't know what we're doing or where we're going, but we like to smoke the ganga and be at peace.
Seriously, I don't care whether you're an anarchist, Marxist or autonomist, I'll be in solidarity with you if you are genuine and want the overthrow of capitalism, its state and its genocidal wars. Whenever I've marched alongside fellow anti-capitalists, I can't tell the difference between the SWPers or any other group. We're all marching together, which means we should respect the diversity of opinion in the movement. I hope that means anarchists and Marxists are not called fascists just because they disagree.

Dan Brett
mail e-mail: danbrett2000@hotmail.com

Evil genius

16.08.2001 14:08

"Crumbs" from Guy Taylor's table? Comrade Taylor suddenly a member of the "bourgeoisie"? If past experience is anything to go by, the man's as skint as you like; I admit it's possible he's just tight when it comes to drinks, but I really do think we'd have noticed if he was owning the means of production and exploiting the proletariat on the sly.

(I can see I run the risk of setting off at least a further 20 postings from other mildly paranoid types about Mr Taylor's covert directorship of BP or something - which would be a shame after Dan Brett concluded things rather well - but for goodness sake, the "crumbs" thing is just silly.)

Jim
mail e-mail: j.g.meadway@lse.ac.uk

simple

16.08.2001 18:29

if the swp want to stop all this hostility to them and their friends in GR, simple advice:

1. cease from selling your papers at demos and actions.

2. cease from putting your great big banners in the middle at the front.

3. cease from printing up masses of banners and handing them out so it looks like there's more of you than there really are.

4. publicly renounce the claim that (and I quote, from a meeting overheard in Genoa convergence space) 'SWP is the only group with an overall strategic vision for the movement'.

by the way it was easy to see who was SWP in Genoa cos they all wore these daft little red bandanas with yellow fists on... the troops were also supposed to be selling (!) these alongside their paper while gathering members.

I also heard a rumour in Genoa that GR decided not to go to the red zone with the tute bianchi because they wouldn't put the giant GR banner at the front of their bloc. So, it seems that GR went to Italy, tried to get 10,000 locals to look like they were GR/SWP supporters, then went off in a huff to form/join a different bloc cos the tute bianchi wouldn't play along...

telling or what?

lots of lovely people are involved in SWP and GR, now please can they put their loveliness into action by abandoning strategies (and if necessary groups) which only serve to undermine unity in a movement built on diversity, non-hierarchical organisation and mutual respect?

and before anyone accuses me of disrespect to swp types or of sectarianism - I've heard it all already, and like countless others I'll keep on saying this stuff as long as the SWP keep trying to take advantage of our energy, diversity and success to build their own waning membership.
This is basically an effort to avoid the splits that have always resulted when SWP try to invade - splits between people who don't understand their tactics and people who do, and are not willing to see a campaign or movement turned into another membership drive, and our actions transformed into opportunities for paper sales and sad old politicos making speeches.

as a movement we are huge and growing, we need to win this one, and in all humility I think we will win it - but only if ALL the groups involved in this movement have vaguely equal amounts of humility and can work together without seeking to lead or dominate.

ta.

zoe

Sour Grapes

16.08.2001 19:46

Bashing the SWP has always been a popular sport in left & progressive circles and for many people, this was an acceptable substitue for making any kind of constructive contribution to the debates and movements of the day. Thankfully in our more enlightned times this this kind of attitude no longer persists... Does it?

The reality is that the SWP is made up of people who share a common view of the world and have a well defined (and yes, well publicised) view of how their political objectives can be acheived. We are all committed to acheiveing change for the better within society and more importantly we are willing to work with anyone within the movement who is serious about pursuing shared objectives.

Sure we try to make sure everyone on the demo carries an SWP placard, but I'll let you all into a little secret if you promise not to tell too many people - you can tear the little bit with "Socialist Worker" off if you don't like it. I've sen it done loads of time on demos and never once seen the perpetrator come to any harm as a result.

The fact is that the SWP is a growing part of the movement (in spite of what Zoe claims) and consists of people with a lot of experience to offer to others. Stopping us from selling papers at demos smacks a little bit of the authoritarianism we're accused of - there are lots of other organisations out there who sell papers why single us out?

As far as the beleif that the 'SWP is the only group with an overall strategic vision for the movement' - what can I say - if I didn't think that myself I would never have joined. But by our actions shall we be judged - its up to people like me prove that. Any kind of public retaction of a comment like that - if it were made - would be pure pantomime.

As an active member of the SWP I want to see a movement made up of a 100 or a 1000 people for every SWP member and I also beleive that our organisation can grow in it by giving a lead and proposing strategies that can succeed. Anyone who thinks that a group that is parasitic on the movement can have the kind of impact that the SWP has had patronises those people who follow its lead tactically but don't become active members.

For the anti-capitalist movement to succeed it must be broad and diverse - and at present that means that that SWP deserves a place in it. The pleadings of those who demand that we are exclude in the name of 'diversity' should ponder their motives in making such calls.

Steve Moorcroft
mail e-mail: Steve_moorcroft@hotmail.com

Further Point

16.08.2001 20:41

Just on the white overalls thing. The IS didn't go to the Red Zone with Ya Basta because we beleive that the way to defeat capitalism is to mobilise the maximum number of people to actively participate in the fight to overthrow it. Without for a moment denigrating the courage and committment of the members of the White Overall movement - we beleive their strategy is substitutionist , where a only a trained elite are active participants and every one else is a spectator.

The IS just did it's thing and the White overalls did theirs.

Steve Moorcroft
mail e-mail: steve_moorcroft@hotmail.com

Steve, steve...

17.08.2001 11:42

Well, i liked one comment you made. About tearing the socialist worker out of the SWP and just having a party...

townie
mail e-mail: cant_cope@hotmail.com

please remember the real ememies

17.08.2001 14:36

there is a authoritarian political party out to destroy the anarcists (and the socialists and black,jews,gays,asians etc)who is growing. and should be stopped from demonstrating, meeting and selling there paper (and stabbing people) .it called the BNP(British National Party). plus the NF(National Front) and C18 (Combat Adolf Hitler)not the SWP,WP,OR CLASS WAR.

International arms dealer in east london (sep 11)

please stop fighting each other, its called devide and rule.

rich
mail e-mail: richgarratt75@hotmail.com

steve...

17.08.2001 14:39

by their actions have SWP been judged, and generally found wanting I'm afraid. hence people have to take time out from the bigger issues to deal with the problems thereby caused.

go for the party without social workers option, and you shall certainly be judged more kindly!

cheers.

ps I should have been a bit more clear about the paper - sure you can sell like anyone else, but remember that there are increasing numbers of people who leave a demo when they see that it has been SWPed.

You can help to build the movement, or you can help to build the party. Your choice.

and since you ask, by your (plural) actions shall you continue to be judged.

nothing personal!

zoe

no particular point

17.08.2001 16:00

can't believe any politico seriously believes it would be better if the SWP didn't sell papers. it is muchbetter that Socialist Worker appears than not as it is important to have regular periodicals that take a radical view on current affairs. And at least everyone gets to see it - unlike practically every libertarian mag.

But surely also eveyone wishes the coverage of the anarchist movement in Socialist Worker was not as close as it is to the mainstream media bollox - ie anarchists/black bloc are mindless thugs/neo-nazis/police agents.

Also eveyone rightly talks up the "individuals in the SWP are cool, but the ideology is shite" line. no-one can be attracted to the SWP by Trotskyism surely, so why do SWP comrades waste time defending it as an ideology on here?

why don't SWP members push for a more libertarian, humanistic but still revolutionary socialism rather than defending Stalinism's bastard offspring? the truth is that no-one in either the libertarian or Trotskyist groups these days has any direct experience of what happens in revolutions. none of us know what tactics work, it is all theory. so why do SWP comrades defend an ideology with a very cynical view of human nature (we all need leaders) before we've even got started?

I am trying not to bash the SWP - we should be glad that there is a several thousand strong socialist organisation in the UK. but why don't they ditch this decades-old ideology?

Tom

Convinced

18.08.2001 07:46

Rich makes a good point about who the real enemies are. But I have to say that I was really bowled over by the strength of Zoe's and townie's arguments. I realise now that these people aren't sectarians who like to snipe from the sidelines, and as such I'm really wavering over my contiued membership of the SWP.

Anyway, what I really need to encourage me to make such a life changing leap is for Zo and town, in their next postings to tell me what I should be doing to take the movement forward. They've already convinced me of the shortcommings of the SWP so I wouldn't expect it to contain any reference to them ('cos that would be sectarian wouldn't it).

What I want to know what real contribution you are making to the development, to attract the widest possible layer of people to it so that I can emulate your August selves in all my future actions.

You can do that can't you...

Steve Moorcroft
mail e-mail: Steve_moorcroft@hotmail.com

Critism is essential !

18.08.2001 08:22

Before describing any critism of the SWP as an example of divide and rule you should consider the eventual results. Western socialists reluctance to critisise communism in Russia didn’t do it any favours, it's vital we constantly question our beliefs and alliegences if we want to make any serious lasting change.

How else is Marxism warped into pseudo-fascism and the labour, party permitted to turn into an adament supporter of globalisation. It's a combination of mass propaganda and a reluctance to critise which keeps people voting for the major parties and blocks any real change. If radical groups don't assess themselves then no-one else will.

Bill the Friendly All-Conforming Automoton

SWP/GR/ANARCHISM

18.08.2001 10:01

I AM PLEASED TO SAY THAT IN PAPUA NEW GUINEA US ANTI CAPITALISTS ARE GENERALLY UNITED.
I THINK THAT IS WHY WE ARE SUCH A THREAT TO THE PNG GOVERNMENT & IT'S WORLD BANK MASTERS.
YOU LOT IN THE UK NEED A BIG BLOCKADE LIKE GENOA OR MELBOURNE TO SORT YOURSELF OUT & WORK OUT WHO THE REAL ENEMY IS.
ANARCHISTS HAVING A GO AT CLASS FIGHTERS LIKE THE SWP.
I CAN'T WORK THAT ONE OUT.

STUART FANCY

Fuckin' A

18.08.2001 11:33

Fuckin' A.

Let's get on with defeating corporate, neo-liberal and nationalist facism and deal with the petty squabbling latter. I may not agree with everything the SWP stands for, but I don't doubt that it's members are commited and really want a better world. Also the few I've met are very nice people.

A. Friend

Neither Washington nor Moscow

18.08.2001 14:19

Bill, you may be friendly but you are also poorly informed. Since its foundation in 1948 as the International Socialists, the SWP has been distinguished from the rest of the far left in Britain and later internationally as the IS Tendency grew by its beleif that the the Soviet Union was not a socialist state.

As for Tom's assertion that Trotskyism is 'Stalinism's Bastard Offspring'- well its just laughable - he is obviously unaware of the efforts that Stalin went to to kill Trotsky and any of his supporters. As for SW's coverage of the Black Bloc, what the paper actually said was as a tactic it was flawed because it allows itself to be infiltrated by anyone with a ski mask and a black tee-shirt on the day regardless of their motivation. Reports on various imc sites have bourne this out.

Now I'm all in favour of open debate and criticism but if it is informed by predjudice or ignorance then what value does it have.

There seems to be a consensus among those critical of the SWP, in this exchange at least, that somehow it is driving people away from the movement - but no actual instances are cited. This is not my experience. I also see lots of people doing things in the movement which aren't my personal cup of tea, but I dont advocate them stopping what they do as a sign of good faith to the rest of the movement.

In the end, the movement has to accomodate a wide variety of views & opinions if it is to move forward. Now if you don't want to work with me then that's fine there are plenty of people out there who do & I'm sure there are enough people out there who you can work with. But don't keep on writing contributions to this site tell me and other SWP members what they should and should not do and beleive... because that is Stalinist.

Steve Moorcroft
mail e-mail: steve_moorcroft@hotmail.com

UK Misinformation

19.08.2001 11:47

I have recently found the amount of misinformation and spin doctoring in the UK media to be very disturbing. As a father it is also quite unsettling to see very thinly disguised political propaganda being preached on a daily basis. In generations to come these newspapers etc will be held as an archive and will give a very distorted and biased representation of current political feeling. The G8 summit is a prime example of this. Future generations will be able to look back on what in reality was a vast amount of people attempting to express their valid political opinions as an unruly rabble. Many people that I have spoken to have already shaped their opinion on G8, and their take on it usually reflects what the media have reported. Sadly, very few deem it important in their lives, and feel no need to delve deeper. Apathy is a disease and if we are not careful it could be terminal.

Alexander Main
mail e-mail: alexandermny@aol

"grow in the movement by giving a lead"?????

20.08.2001 15:02

Wanting to be part of a diverse movement and wanting to grow by giving lead to it are two entirely different things. Respect for your commitment to making this world a nicer place....however, coming from a former socialist country (GDR) I can't help finding your views on society, class and especially "revolution" somewhat antiquated and out of touch with reality. Surely Marx, Trotzky and Lenin were intelligent and revolutionary thinkers- but they have been dead for roughly a century and surely wouldn't come up with the same ideas if they were living now. Capitalism is now in a much more advanced state than it was a hundred years ago, it has changed from national to global and become much more complex, and if you can't change your thinking the same way you will not be able to bring about any real change.
The "revolutions" in Russia and the Eastern block were mainly a mere swap of seats, and already Lenin started getting rid off people who didn't agree with him in much the same way any dictator does. And in all socialist countries, the more inspired ,creative, "thinking" people (the kind who oppose capitalism if growing up in the West) soon got very suspicious of the new leaders. It turned out that the so-called dictatorship of the working class was in fact no better, not even different, from any other dictatorship, be it fascist, military or multinatinal corp.
I know that most SWP's agree that state socialism in Russia and the Eastern block can't be the solution. Nevertheless your attitude, concern with uniformity (everybody has to or at least should, please, wear your nice little stickers, banners, hats. scarves- what else soon?), shouting slogans, "comrades" delivering speeches... all reminds me of those mayday demos the government forced us to attend before 1989. The air around SWP smells of repression and order and I think, that's why many people who are more RTS or anarchist or no group at all don't like you so much. I don't mind if you are part of the whole thing (the more people the better) , but maybe reconsider your aspirations to "lead" a movement that is no longer yours.

Anna

Give the Guy a chance!

21.08.2001 12:05

Just a few points on what's been said:

Whilst you may not agree with Guy's viewpoint(which is your
perogative) you should recognise his commitment to the anti-capitalist movement.

Whilst Guy is an important part of GR he is not God,we are not his groupies and don't need or indeed want to bask in his glory!.

Everyone has the right to bring their banners,papers etc to demos to marches and meetings if they want to or to decline to do so.

Whilst the SWP does promote it's viewpoint as many others do
it does not force anyone to agree with it(i've been a member for ten years so should know).

You should consider who the real enemy is those who seeking
to bring in legislation so that we can all be monitored more carefully or the SWP

Claire the Librarian

Claire
mail e-mail: clairenatashya@hotmail.com

swp'd out

23.08.2001 11:52

i'm put off when i see the swp at a demo or something.
if there's not another section well away from the swp that i can join then i'll leave the demo.
i'm not part of any grouping - i usually go to actions on my own. since i started going on left wing-ish marches etc in the 70's, the swp have shown themselves to be parasites, in my opinion, and they give me the creeps.
that's not much more than gut reaction, but it's all i need to make me want to avoid them.

trace
mail e-mail: domino@appleonline.net

Unity in the movement???

23.08.2001 15:10

I think one thing that's made clearer by the day is that some people are interested in building a mass movement capable of changing the world, whereas some prefer to engage in moaning and bickering about everyone else in the movement.
I suppose it's much easier to sit in front of your computer and criticise everyone else rather than actually go out and do something - like convince someone else why it's worth fighting capitalism for example. But then again some people aren’t interested in that. Some people want to “go to actions on their own”. It must be very lonely out there Trace.
But to be honest, I’m more interested in building a UNITED mass movement – environmentalists, socialists, anarchists, trade unionists, students, workers, greens – the kind of movement that can smash not only the WTO or the G8, but the whole of this rotten system called capitalism.

Despina

Despina
mail e-mail: m_despina@hotmail.com

laughable

23.08.2001 16:41

Steve
I am not trying to have a go at the SWP for any political reason I genuinely believe what I write. I don't have an ideology/party to defend beyond my own half-baked libertarian socialism.
I am well aware that Stalin tried to kill Trotskyists. but I am also aware that both Stalin and Trostky ordered the execution of anarchists and dissident socialists. so to people like me of that tendency what difference should I see between them? they both killed people that think like I do because of what they thought.
hence Stalinism's bastard offspring

Tom

go with the flow

29.08.2001 01:14

To all SWP defenders,

you don't need to feel personally offended at the sight of the slightest criticism to your views, we are just having an exchange of different thoughts and ideas.
Respect for your commitment, but commitment alone is not enough (and even the road to hell is paved with good
intentions, so be careful). Question your own views once in a while maybe, instead of stubbornly insisting/pretending that you have the answer, 'cause nobody really has. That's the challenge we all face. That's why we need new CREATIVE thinkers. "World revolution" will not come about the way Marx and Lenin dreamt of it, simply forget about it and wake up to the reality of the here and now, the new millenium!Be blessed!Anna

Anna