now there's a bit of factionalism. redolent of the nazis really. but of course the bnp actually love the nf or more paricularly combat 18. the nf give the bnp something to rail against so as to appear more respectable, while combat 18 do the work behind the scenes.all one thing really and useful for security strategy to utilise to spread fear. do the afa really love the anl? or vice versa? the place perhaps to look for fascism is the state or as it is becoming, the global state.declares itself democratic but always happy for the openly fascist element to do a bit of its work.

Of course the BNP love the NF, just like they love the ANL. The NF are pretty insignificant, and if they'd been ignored they would have carried on being insignificant. The fact is that it's the BNP who are the threat, but they've pulled out of 'street politics' and are working hard on community activism. The ANL tactic of screaming 'Nazi!' at them doesn't work. There's a real problem of disaffection amongst the white working class - quite rightly they feel abandoned and the left is doing nothing to offer them a viable alternative. There's a vacuum that the BNP are quietly filling. I think AFA are right, by focussing on the simple targets - like the twenty or so morons who turn up at NF marches - the ANL are diverting attention. And when it all goes up, like it has in Bradford, then it's the BNP who come out on top.

Saying that the state is the real enemy is fine, I don't disagree, but there's also a very threat of resurgent fascism. Just take a look at Europe...

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Well how wonderful, refugees are getting killed in the street and people start to criticize other anti-fascists???

Do you know the planned ANL carnival in Burnley for September 1st has been banned by the Home Secretary?

Likewise do you know that the ANL protest planned for the BNP 'festival' in wales has also been banned by Blunkett.

Similarly, although you may not agree with the politics the Socialist Alliance has been the only group around the election and after that has tried to counter the filth that the fascists and media spread about asylum seekers.

To sit on the sidelines moaning is not good enough - you may think a few NF marching doesn't matter in Birmingham, but it does, it gives the scum confidence.

Ring the home office and demand that the ANL carnival be allowed to go ahead, and get in touch with the ANL to join the mass leafletting of areas like Burnley and Oldham if we can't get it back on.

It's just the same old authoritarian SWP tactics. I happen to think that AFA have a point, and that the ANL travelling circus is actually inflaming the situation. But trying to make people feel as if it is their duty to support everything that the ANL do is a low tactic. The second the word "Nazi" is mentioned the ANL/SWP/GR condemn all those who dont agree with their tactics as sympathisers.

So the SWP want us to "ring the home office" and ask them to lift a ban on one of their rallies? Eh?

what sort of organisation are you that allows it's tactics to be dictated by the government? In case you haven't noticed, the movement you regard as needing your leadership has been defying bans on its actions for some time now. So why do you need the permission of the Home Office to have a party in Burnley or take on the NF in Wales?

THe ANL/SWP strategy is a disastrous one. The BNP gained in Oldham by offering white working class people an alternative to Labour. What did the SWP do? Voted for Labour, a party responsible for far greater attacks on black people in this country than the BNP.

And when you say "the Socialist Alliance has been the only group around the election and after that has tried to counter the filth that the fascists and media spread about asylum seekers" what about the dozens of black organisations, revolutionary anarchists, church groups, Campsfield campaigners, charities, community activists, anti-fascists...

I'd better shup up before the SWP call me 'sectarian'.

What I said about the Socialist Alliance was obviously in reference to 'parties' standing in the election, unfortunatley the argument was lost about standing a candidate in Oldham, which was v.bad. Obviously other groups are doing things to combat racism....

and obviously as we were part of the Socialist Alliance we did not call on people to vote labour, unless they had no alternative although I would imagine that if that was the only choice most people wouldn't vote, which I can understand.

Would anyone care to explain what is wrong exactly with demanding this horrible government lifts its ban on the carnival??? Stuff will happen if it stays banned, mass leafletting etc....would be nice to see some AFA people helping out don't you think ;-)

I'll tell you what is wrong with fighting the govt' ban on the ANL festival.

Why don't you fuck the state and go ahead and organise something where you don't have to go sucking up to the powers that be? That's another way of saying do what you want to do. Or does it take too long to get permission from the ANL/SWP/GR political bosses??

this is all well and good - my response to afa in the first place was a little bit of despairing at anti-fascists fighting each other because of their own political agendas and strategies, while the state will utilise whatever occurs to further its own agenda.
look at genoa - the italian authorities advertised well in advance that it was going to be a state/police riot and so it was - with infiltrators and agent provocateurs ensuring that even the most pascifist and meek of protestors was in danger of getting their head kicked in. thats one outcome ensured for future reference - i'm sure there are many others.
as for bradford - karl dallas has recently written a letter to the local paper comparing the last day of the birmingham festival to the last day of the bradford festival. the nf had threatened a march at both.in both cases a banning order was issued by blunkett. in bradford the police said that in spite of the banning order, the intention of the nf to appear anyway meant that public order could not be guaranteed and put pressure on the festival organisers who called off the final day's city centre activities. this a week after bradfords fine multicultural and peaceful mela. cant guarantee public order from a bunch of 20 nf blokes? in a city centre full of people out for a good time? push the panic button police authorities. on that saturday, much of joe public stayed out of the centre - fearing the worst. the stage had been cleared. in comes the anl to hold a rally in centenary square. in come numerous asian young men anxious to protect their community from fascists. in come the nf. interstingly keighley railway station was crawling with police that aturday while nf members were free to cross the bradford interchange giving nazi salutes and insults.

obviously i havent got the hang of this thing yet.
anyway the situation is that the nf blokes are free to roam the city centre, and eventually mange to beat on a young asian. situate themselves in a pub and eventually come out saluting and offering racial abuse. meanwhile in centenary square, the asian contingent are only aware of the presence of large numbers of mounted police and riot garbed officers parked down every back street. festival banned because of expected trouble and now trouble prepared for anyway? a little bit of quite nasty conflict erupts and riot police are immediately in place eventually forcing the protestors back in to the most conveniently placed area of predominently asian residence and all mayhem ensues. coincidentally (!) on the weekend before the ounsely report appears condemning the factual apartheid in education and residency in bradford - though this is so heavily couched in blair newspeak i dont really know what its saying.
outcome - local public demand for an expanded police arsenal, blunkett agrees to water cannon -the front page 'mugshots' for three weeks running of 20 young

men for identification - the police say they know the identities of all the first 40, 23 have given themselves up.many of these people have been turned in by their own community - such is the guilt-ridden nature of what has been produced. and repeated pictures of asian youth who are designated criminals - has this been done before? obviously the wearing of face masks stops this kind of thing but helps infiltration - see genoa.i dont oppose resistance to the rise of the right, but we need to understand how that fascist element is manipulated by the state for its own similar end - ie fascist - as is blair and how can anyone have voted for labour?.