TO SPIKE: YEAH, YOU BASTARD, IT WAS A "GOOD SHOT", I BET YOU AND YOUR PIG FRIENDS IN THE POLICE AND SPECIAL BRANCH ARE GLAD. BUT REMEMBER THAT THE COMMUNIST, ANARCHIST AND OTHER SUCH MOVEMENTS FEED ON MARTYRDOM. YOU KEEP SHOOTING, KILLING AND TORTURING US ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUT THERE EVENTUALLY COMES A TIME WHERE WE RISE AND RISE AND THEN NOTHING CAN SAVE PEOPLE LIKE YOU! YOU WON'T KNOW WHERE TO HIDE.
LONG LIVE THE MEMORY OF OUR DEAD COMRADES. WE WILL RISE AND WE WILL WIN!
REST IN PEACE, AS WE ARE RESTLESS IN WAR!

The person that posted these pictures states that

"The pictures clearly show that Carlo Giuliani has been murdered in cool blood."

To me they show a group attacking with deadly weapons, yes steel pipes, boards, rocks & even fire extinguishers can kill & are obviously being used with deadly intent. Looks clearly like self defence to me.

Who is the dead man in this photo? Is it Carlo Giuliani? Who is Carlo Giuliani? Who killed him? Why? What happened just before these photos were taken?

All we have here are some disturbing photos with no context...

Cheers

Jesse

It jumps from a picture of him attacking with a fire extinguisher to a picture of him dead. What happened in between hear? What happened in between the point where he had the fire extinguisher in his hands and he lay bleeding on the ground?

These pictures show very clearly that if Carlo wasn't dead already - being run over by a police car certainly did the rest to him!! And what will happen today? God help the people in Genoa!

What's happening in London? Are we supposed to stay silent? I don't think so!! I heart rumours of demonstrations at the italian embassy. Where? When?

i don't like commies and and i don't like Stalin, but i hate fascist
reactionaries like 'spiker' even more. fuck you. you're as much an
enemy of mine as the cops. a fire extinguisher in the leg of a cop
wouldn't have killed him like a bullet in the head did to Carlos. i
hate scum like you and your apologies for state murder.
we won't forget this. the police are the army of the rich and
in the service of a state, all states, and will always be my enemy.

I think the sequence of events lack clarity - was Carlos in fact dead before the police ran him over? Why wasn't he moved (was this because he was already dead?) Do the police have the power to use "lethal force"? If so was it really murder - that would indicate premeditation - or the culmination of to violent forces at odds?
Whatever happened to peaceful protest - the numbers are certainly there?

Spiker...go FUCK YOURSELF! What happened between the fire-extinguisher being raised and Carlo lying on the ground was a bullet between the eyes. The pictures speak for themselves. Activists were under attack, the police were losing, so they commited a murderous act. There is NO justification for this, just to allow a bunch of illegal, hand-picked Plutocrats to chat?

Look through the smashed back window of the pig jeep, in pics 1,2 & 5, and you can clearly make out a pistol being pointed. This is murder in the name of capitalism and the whole world should be watching.
Sorrow, Solidarity and Rage!!!!

These pictures show a number of people wearing masks attacking the police. One of them died.

Are we at all surprised. Put yourself in the position of the police. Mobs of people wearing masks throwing objects are trying to kill you. The use of force is unfortunate, but inevitable. What I really want to know is what the hell the 'friend' of that guy is doing, picking up items off the ground while his friend is being run over. He must be a real winner.

I remember in the 1980s we staged non-violent protests against the importation of uranium from Namibia. Today the protests are violent, and it is not at all clear what we are even protesting for.

Well folks-- I have been in the conservative broadcast sector for many years and still today day it never ceases to amaze me at how much stupid violence/murder can be created when Communists meet Communists!

What the world is being subjected to in these pictures I think is very plain. A Communist anti-capitalist is attempting to inflict damage to equipment belonging to the established Communist, Zionist. Their 'Flying Monkey' goon squads attack at a moments notice and murder, merely to protect a thing. This reminds me of Berlin at the end of WWI when the filthy Spartacists murdered thousands of German citizens because the Student Commie Revolutionaries, taught by Stalins 'Murder Incorporated' saw no other way to change the government. Communisism always works the same way... pressure from above and pressure from below! These pictures tell the same story. May this poor slob rest in peace and may his personal agitators for Zion bear the guilt!

Nationalists of the world stand strong in solidarity! DO NOT get swept up in this lunacy of Communist blood lust. These people do not fight for faith or truth, only for a place at the hog trough of politics. And their politics are terror and the result is... The only winner here is the one percenters of world wide Zionism and these people in the streets fight and murder to help that end. Until this simple truth is realized by the broad masses we can expect to see the iron fist hit harder, and the anarchist cause more mayhem and destruction.

Fix bayonetes! It is going to get worse before the 'Sleepers Awaken!' May God bless and protect my brothers world wide! May the 'Sons of saxon' prevail!

Keith
You are obviously insane. You radio show is laughable. You obviously had a lot of problems as a child and you've never been able to come to terms with them. Did your Daddy and Uncle fuck you?
I suggest you get urgent medical help before you embark on a series of rapes/killings etc. Or maybe you already have.
It is also interesting to note that you can hardly write. Is this the example of the Aryan superman? Illiterate, broken and mad ?
Berlusconi a communist? GW Bush a communist? And you problem with Jewish people...cuckoo!

The series of photos here do not look like the polizia can claim self-defense. The squad of cops heading down the street belies earlier descriptions of an attack on a dead-end street. If these cops were intentionally staying to fight, they are culpable. Driving over Carlo is another act of homicide. It will be interesting to see if there is more justice in Italy than over here in the States, or generally, the rest of the world.
Police brutality is manifestation of corporatist board of dictators insanely inappropriate power.

IF THIS DOESN`T PROVE ANYTHING, YOU AND YOUR FUCKING NEO-LIBERALISTIC, SNEAK FACIST,PLAY-GROUND DEMOCRAZY, CAN GO WANK YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOU CAN. THE NEXT TIME YOU`RE THE ONE BLEEDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I see the gun pointed out the back of the jeep --but the poor soul who was shot was not targeted in the first photo..it appears it wasn't until he moved in directly behind the jeep that he was targeted...I'm guessing had I been standing behind the jeep I would have been the one shot and ran over.
No matter what you call it though murder is murder--premeditated or accidental...police or private. Unfortunately the masked potestors make it hard to have wide support because by resulting to violence they made themselves out to be no better than their masked police attackers.

the media says that the the copcar was completaly surrounded by protestors... and the only way out was shooting! wrong again for beleiving such bullshit! here is a link with pix with a broader view:  http://www.clarence.com/contents/societa/speciali/globalizzazione/pillole/dossier/venerdi.html
now some of you who didnt know what happened in between the above posted pix, know know! coldblooded murder in the name of civil peace!oh right???

I see a bunch of people attacking police in a vehicle, I see one of them is dead after the attack. Frankly, if a bunch of people tried to prise me out of my car with big bits of wood and metal, and I was armed, I'd feel the need to shoot out of the back window too.

The running over thing is probably an accident - if you've never tried to maneuver a vehicle with shattered windows under the influence of fear and adrenaline you really shouldn't knock the standard of driving.

I'd say the guy was clearly dead when they ran over him, but they wouldn't have known that. They probably never even knew they'd shot someone for sure until they got debriefed back at base and they won't have been able to see someone lying on the ground from the driving positions, or their positions prone inside the vehicle.

Eon

It's a little late but, here is the rational argument for this case for those who don't possess the acumen to figure it out:

You should not kill. Taking the life of another is the most terrible thing you can do to that person.

Is there a time when you can kill?

One case would be to prevent one person from killing another person or persons. This case is not applicable to our argument, so I'll ignore it.

Another case is to prevent someone from killing you. While killing your attacker is evil, the greater evil is your own death. Furthermore, the attacker's motive is to end a life, your motive is to save a life, namely your own. The problem that arises is that there must be 100% certainty that you will be killed if you do not kill your attacker. To clarify, you have no other option but to kill to save your life. Such a situation is hypothetically possible but extremely unlikely.

Thinking that somone will kill you is not sufficient enough cause to kill as there is the possibility that you will not be killed. Again, you need to be certain that you will be killed and that you have no other option but to kill. If other possibilities exist and you do kill, you would be commiting the greater evil. Thus arguments like 'he didn't know' or 'he didn't have time to make to right decision' are arguments that do not support lethal action.

If there is a 100% certainty that you would be killed, there must also be a 100% certainty that non-lethal force would not work. If there is a possibility that non-lethal force could save you but you kill your attacker, you have ended his/her life needlessly. This is an unjust amount of force and is not right. You have stopped the evil act of your life being taken but have created a greater evil by killing needlessly.

Also, killing to prevent certain or possible injury is unjust as the evil or killing someone is worse than the evil of being hurt by someone. Thus the argument of killing to prevent "grievous boldily harm" is logically incorrect.

In the case of Carlo's shooting death, there is neither a 100% certainty that he would have killed the officer nor that non-lethal force would not have worked to stop Carlo.

It appears from the photo that he was going to throw the fire extinguisher into the rear window of the jeep but this is not certain. Had he indeed been intending to throw it in the window, it could have bounced off the window frame and missed it's mark. There is a possibility that the fire extinguisher could have gone in the window perfectly and killed the officer on the spot or later in hospital. This however is not 100% certain. He could have thrown the extinguisher in the window and caused some degree of injury (from light to serious) that would have been non-lethal. There was also the unlikely chance the the extinguisher would go in and miss the officer altogether (though this is highly unlikely). All of these examples are 'non-zero' possibilities and thus point out uncertainty.

For the officer's part, there were options on his behalf as well. He could have fired at the roof of the jeep to try and scare Carlo off. He could have shot Carlo's leg. He could have put up his hands with locked arms to block the extinguisher (painful, but avoiding pain is not a reason to kill). He might have been able to move out of the way, etc. There were many options available to him at the time.

The lack of 100% certainty that the officer would have been killed and the lack of 100% certainty that lethal force was necessary make the lethal use of force unreasonable.