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why is the UK indy media site so crap??

luther blisset | 03.01.2001 15:17

q - why is the UK indymedia site so crap when it should be one of the most vibrant???
a - because its exclusively run by reclaim the streets to their agenda

Q - why is the UK indymedia website so crap when it should be one of the most vibrant??

A - Because its exclusively run by Reclaim the streets

Q - Why does it only focus on certain stories and not others even when people are sending underground newsworthy stuff into them??

A - Because its exclusively run by RTS who seem to have their own agenda that revolves around London only

Please discuss

luther blisset

Comments

Hide the following 34 comments

Which articles?

03.01.2001 17:07

Which articles are you talking about??
A quick look at the editorial admin page shows me (an activist neither involved in Indymedia or RTS) that the only articles hidden are either posted more than once or not news...

Mr Pie

Contribute

03.01.2001 18:47

If you don't like it, contribute stuff yourself. That's kind of the point of Indymedia.

Lemming
mail e-mail: lemming@grandtheftcyber.com

ok, what your suggestions.....

03.01.2001 23:22

ok, what are your suggestions? while you are at it, you may want to consider the definition of media activism and the reason we all need to join forces. we are called 'independent' for the sole reason we are independent from the 'corporate media'. a good description of 'media activism' is that we are all activists first and journo's second.

why are you so concerned? we have links from lots of other sites that are not as big and important as RTS. it is just the reason they have decided to promote imc-uk on their homepage.

anyway, i say again. what are you suggestions?

jellywobbler
mail e-mail: jellywobbler@what the....com

Statement by the IMC UK collective

04.01.2001 01:10

A quick response to your allegations:

1. Indymedia UK is not run by Reclaim The Streets. We - the Indymedia UK collective - align ourselves in solidarity with anticapitalist and progressive groups and campaigns. However, Indymedia and RTS are two very distinct groups/networks with differing strategies and philosophies.

2. Indymedia relies on reports posted by a variety of groups and individuals. As you rightly noted, these reports are being sent by members of the public from all over the country.

3. While these reports are constantly appearing in the “newswire” (right column of the front page), we often highlight reports on bigger actions in the middle column. These highlighted reports have included a variety of UK and international news, from reports on the Mayday guerilla gardening action, to pieing actions in Oxford, to the refugee caravan around the UK, to anti-EU actions in Nice, to the latest Zapatista communique......

We update the middle column often and include a variety of different issues. However, as we are all doing it on a voluntary basis, there may be times - for example around christmas/new year - when the site doesn’t get updated as often as it should.

4. We are currently networking with a wide range of counter-info and alternative media groups - locally, regionally and internationally.

As well, we are constantly thinking about how to improve the site and are currently working on a major redesign. If you want to suggest any improvements feel free to get in touch.

We hope it will be able for all of us to discuss these issues in a more constructive manner in the future.

In line with our editorial guidelines we will move this item to the debate area on Saturday 6th January because it is not a news/action report.

The IMC UK collective

IMC UK
mail e-mail: imcuk@indymedia.org.uk
- Homepage: http://www.indymedia.org.uk

Please be more effectvie...........

04.01.2001 10:00

I assume that the IndyMedia UK has some linkage to the Indymedia International(www.indymedia.org). The Indymedia Internetional site, gives the following mission statement or philosophy (call it what you will) -'Indymedia is a collective of independent media organizations and hundreds of journalists offering grassroots, non-corporate coverage. Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth.'

It is in this respect that the Indymedia UK site seems to be less effective, as Indymedia International attempts serious reporting of truth hidden or omitted from the coorporate media / goverment releases, while the UK site provides headlines on pieing of ministers and plaques on buildings. While such reporting may be valuable to inform us of protests all of the stories mentioned were covered extensively in the national media so do little to forward 'non-corporate, non-commercial coverage.' If activism is to be succesful in this ultraconservtive country, then well presented reporting (and here voluntary is no defence) of true events and issues outside the media spotlight is required. This is a difficult ideal, but if the American site can achieve it then so can we.

Thebunion

How Indymedia works

04.01.2001 11:40

One of the objectives of Indymedia is indeed to report on "events and issues outside the media spotlight" - as you put it. However, the content of the site is exclusively based on the stories that are posted by members of the public. The Indymedia collective is not adding any other content than what is posted by groups and individuals on the "newswire". All we are doing is highlighting some of these news. And the decision which stories to highlight is usually based on the "newsworthiness" of a story - after all this is a news site.

As you rightly mention Indymedia UK is part of the global Indymedia network (see the links to other IMCs on the left hand column). This network consists of more than 40 local/regional groups and websites (which are all autonomous and thus differ from each other in their approach) and one portal site indymedia.org. This portal site collects stories from all the local/regional sites and is therefore much broader and updated much more often. So, if you want to compare Indymedia UK to other Indymedia sites, then don't choose the portal site for comparison, as it works differently from the local/regional sites.

I hope this clarifies some of the concerns mentioned.

Of course we're taking any criticism seriously and will discuss it. For example, we're currently discussing possibilities of how to give more space on the site to opinion and analysis, in addition to pure news reports. We're working on it, so watch this space.

arne
(one of the IMC UK collective)

arne
mail e-mail: alien8@freeuk.com

yeah but...

04.01.2001 12:20

A can of worms has been opened. This was my intention.

Openess and accountability is crucial to keep alive the concept of indymedia. In my opinion the ukindymedia is not working as well as it should be...take for example its coverage ( or lack of it ) during the recent climate conference in the Hague + Nice...it should be taking on board & mirroring more content of other alternative media sources. It desperately needs more analysis and it needs to be updated regularly ie once a day, in order to become effective. Where are the Welsh stories??? where are the scottish stories??? I feel that ukindymedia has alienated itself from many established alternative media bods - lets see if we can reverse this.

I propose that there is a public meeting so that the ukindymedia editorial folk can meet their critics head on.

...and i still stand by the acusation that ukindymedia is running to a RTS agenda.

luther Blisset
mail e-mail: georgewbush@whitehouse.com

Smugness gets you no where...

04.01.2001 12:50

It was begining to develop into a good discussion (surprising , regarding your negative start) until you added another smug remark that will only put people off.


A quick look at the international page on the site shows Introduction coverage of both the Hague and Nice, and again the newswire contains some reports sent by uk participants; this seems to be working to me, i imagine this site will take time to build and develop. From the IMC uk responses here they seem to be quite open to our remarks and surprisingly friendly considering your tone, lets give them help and space to work in.


You are begining to sound too much like an armchair radical - too eger to slag off - why not get out there and report and action.


tumult

tumult
mail e-mail: tumult@freeuk.com

publish everything

04.01.2001 13:04

Yeah why didnt this site reproduce the coverage of nice and the hague that was on the nice and climate indymeeja sites eh?

Unless this uk site reproduces more information from other indymeeja sites i will have no choice but to start visiting these other indymeeja sites to get the stories i want.

And if this and other indymeeja sites can't sort their shit out and become homogenous - so we can have a true real independent and activist, but fluffy public facing, real alternative reuters style news service, then i'll have no choice but to go and start visiting sites like oneworld.org or infoshop.org that do do a good job of collecting and coallating and archiving content from a variety of corporate and radical sources.

pondlife
mail e-mail: -

Question re agendas

04.01.2001 13:14

Luther, I'm not sure what you mean by 'running an RTS agenda' - d'you mean just being london-centric?

D Ash

in reply to Tumult

04.01.2001 13:54

One has to provoke sometimes in order to gain a reaction. Agent provocateur etc. However This has been a neccesary and much needed discussion. Please dont shoot the messenger. Indymedia can be a groovy thing. I use Prague as an example...speaking of Prague is it true that someone representing UKIMC was paid to go by the BBC???

I find it extrodinary that some UKindymedia people are saying that they need "time and space" to find their feet in order to build & develop the site. For example the Israeli IMC site which only started in October, is streaks ahead of the UK IMC site in terms of content and analysis, as are many other IMC sites. It regularly plunders (irrespective of copyright) from the mainstream in order to stay up to date & vibrant...(although naturally their situation differs) As a suggestion why can't the UK site do this??

The Hague & Nice demos should have both been on the frontpage, not buried in subsections - whilst they were both newsworthy. They werent. In my opinion the editorial decisions concerning the "newsworthiness" of articles is not being fully realised.

Finally I'm hiding behind an alias because I am an activist.
This is why I am concerned.

luther blisset

Another response

04.01.2001 19:15

in response to this comment:-

"Unless this uk site reproduces more information from other indymeeja sites i will have no choice but to start visiting these other indymeeja sites to get the stories i want. "


This is actually the idea. On the basis that 'news' originates locally - i see it that it should be reported locally by locals. A decentralized network.

On the other comment on the need for more/better anaylsis: we are as fast as we can working on new Editorial Guidelines that will broaden the Newswire to include anaylsis. They will be published transparantly on the site. We made the error earlier in the year of applying an editorial policy before we had completed it and displayed it on the site - and understandably caused problems; our apparent lack of verve is due to us not wanting to repeat this mistake.

Richard
of IMC UK collective

Richard
mail e-mail: richardmalter@ziplip.com

Speaking of identities....

04.01.2001 21:14

luther, you talk of having a meeting so that critics can meet us head on. would you present yourself and your id in a public meeting? we are all ordinary activists caught up in a blurred line of underground media and illegality of the demos we all cover. i do have a life to lead as well as being a volunteer videocameraman for the IMC. i do not want to present myself too often to wreck what's left of my life as life is difficult enough as it is.
i see someone mentioned www.indymedia.org. this site is our main global site, luther. Reclaim the streets does not twist or 'run' their own agenda at all VS. www.indymedia.org. i rest my case.

SKY IMC

SKY IMC

before

05.01.2001 14:25

The UK site certainly needs improvement however do you remember when it first started around Mayday .It was very shite but seems to be improving at a slower rate than all the other sites but thankfully is improving,keep up the good work comrades and long live the revolution.

Rua
mail e-mail: t
- Homepage: a

THE PROBLEM WITH IMC UK

06.01.2001 13:45

this has been true since they got started, is that they dont understand the spirit of the radicalism that gave rise to it, and this is essentially american in inspiration. if you look at their appalling 'guidelines' (which are rigourously enforced without any recourse), they deem it in their legitimate power to censure (and censor) anyone they dont personally like. they dont seem to understand that they should only use this as an extreme last measure against irrelevant or blatantly offensive material, not against say the SWP or the Fuel protesters. You may have noticed that major stories are going straight onto the global site now, bypassing the UK altogether... serve you guys right !
By the way, even the name "United Kingdom" should be changed. 'Kingdom' mentality (ie unaccountability) lies at the heart of IMC UK, the UK is not united and a less inflammatory "Britain" might be better.

Slodie Klein

"Radicalism Essentially American Inspired"?

06.01.2001 23:28

see the link underneath to my earlier comment in the 'Violence'/'Non-violence' and the role of the IMC's' debate...

so our 'censorship' brings a fuel tax contributor like corvus to post now only on the global site? pity. give it a try to search for "corvus" on this site and it will be clear that this oh-so oppressive regime of ours can't be that rigid as there are plenty of contributions by him...

many contributors on the debate pages clearly do not like that we define ourselves outside of political parties - half of all the postings critizising us whinge against us being biased against the swp: well, why shouldn't we? the swp have their own media outlets.

but you're right with your critique of the name! before we started to talk to the US techies about the subdomain we actually had a meeting with undercurrants, squall and schnews people. we had thought that it might be more appropriate to use the subdomain london.indymedia.org as the imcuk-collective is entirely london-based - but on that meeting the subdomain name "uk" was decided... "britain" actually might be more inclusive... still "britain" has it's problems, too, as it refers to the empire...

AndiArbeit
- Homepage: http://uk.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=716

new name for UK.indymedia

07.01.2001 21:31

UK is a short form for The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

If you change this site's name to Britain [something] it will be as inflammatory as UK - it will exclude Northern Ireland which would please some people who live there and annoy others.

Couldn't a meeting for the person who started this thread be held online to maintain anonymity?

Smin.

Smin
mail e-mail: mrsmin@btinternet.com

i dont know why "Smin"

08.01.2001 16:50

steered the point i made into that particular direction ? still, i think the characters who run this site should just start over afresh, drop the 'guidelines' and get the concept of the 1st amendment into their heads, together with all the other radical ideas which gave rise to IMC. the underlying problem in these isles is that we did not have a succesful revolution in our history (ulike the USA, France, Russia, &c) therefore we have no instinctive understanding of the limitations of power, and the end result is that anarchists construct the most judgement al 'guidelines'. FOR GODS SAKE! if the SWP want to post an article, let them, and without the moral lecture on their 'heirarchical structure', which is neither true or indeed the business of anyone outside the party...
DONT CENSOR, except in the most drastic cases nor narrow down the field of discussion too much. Do you realise that general commentaries are as important as the event itself, for what is the point of an action unless you draw some conclusions from the wider world?
Yes, perhaps "london" would be the best overall name. i dont think anyone would really mind.

Slodie K

UK tag for IMC?

09.01.2001 12:18

This is the first I have heard of this meeting, from Undercurrents point of veiw the uk tag was never discussed. As an Irishman I have a lot of problems with the conatations of UK & GB and would prefer Britain as the best of a bad bunch.
"but you're right with your critique of the name! before we started to talk to the US techies about the subdomain we actually had a meeting with undercurrants, squall and schnews people. we had thought that it might be more appropriate to use the subdomain london.indymedia.org as the imcuk-collective is entirely london-based - but on that meeting the subdomain name "uk" was decided... "britain" actually might be more inclusive... still "britain" has it's problems, too, as it refers to the empire..."
Indymedia & Undercurrents have discussed regional IMC's, the plan was one British IMC acting as a portal for a number of regional & city based IMC's.

Paul
mail e-mail: paulo@joymail.com
- Homepage: http://www.undercurrents.org

failure to comprehend...

09.01.2001 17:06

to comprehend what IMC is about ! the UK site has clearly erected a hedge of rules which have effectively suffocated the objective. there is no other branch of IMC whcih seems to have such difficulty with letting articles stay as they arrive. 'guidelines' indeed !
there is no risk of anyone being excluded by a name change . who came up with that blairite word ? cutting every article which doesnt correspond to the rules is a sure way of excluding, if you want it that way

Slodie Klein

On purpose, 1st amendment rights and names

09.01.2001 17:59

The point our comrade makes about the 1st amendment is an important one. A look around at the websites that make up Indymedia will reveal a range of differing attitudes to what should or should not be taken off the frontpage. Indeed it will also reveal a range of intentions or aims for such Indymedia sites. Some are obviously aimed at a non-activist bourgeois audience and do not even allow viewers to post articles. Others seem to welcome contributions that range from well researched background analysis pieces to sentimental poetry, from humorous cartoons to rants of the 'I believe' nature. Somewhere in the middle can be found the majority of Indymedia sites.

I think it is interesting to look at what the purpose of Indymedia is. Is it to provide a news service for activists and campaigners? Is it to provide a 'respectable' window into the world of resistance for non-activists? Is it to draw attention to subjects that do not get covered by the mainstream media? Is it to provide an alternative view of things the mainstream media does cover? Is it to safeguard the 1st amendment and be a home to all views and information?

I've followed Indymedia a lot used it most during the large anti-capitalist demonstrations of the last year or so and it seems to be at its best when covering such events. Surely this is what its name embodies; IMC or Independent Media Centre. In between such large scale actions it seems to function less well as a general news / debate service. I think both functions have their own specific purpose and needs, but that many sites (including this one) have yet to come to terms with the different roles.

As to the uk tag of this site I agree that it's not a good one, and can't think of something better, but it fits with the domain system (.uk). Britain might be good but as has been said it too has connotations - I think everything does. I also like the idea mentioned by undercurrents of having regional IMC's, then this site could act as the portal one, and it might address some of the london centric problems that have been raised.

Plus couldn't they develop some type of classification system for articles to differentiate them - some other sites are experimenting with such systems (then the 'guidelines' would probably be irrelevant).

R Oak

A classification system

09.01.2001 21:51

Technical:
A friend told me about slashdot.com - it has a classification system for postings and the code is available, I understand, for free (a link on the left of the front page) but it goes over my head.

(no need to put my name in "")

Smin
mail e-mail: mrsmin@btinternet.com
- Homepage: http://www.slashdot.com

FAO : Richard IMC

10.01.2001 12:26

May I draw peoples attention to an article on the UKIMC frontpage called " The coming war in the Middle East " not because of its dodgy analysis but because it was immediately chastised by the self imposed IMC heirachy.

This is yet another example of censoring and misuse of the UKIMC - by Richard specificaly.

when will it end??


Luther Blisset

What's it all about?

13.01.2001 18:30

Luther's original posting has begun an excellent discussion - and to them I am truly grateful. However, there are some issues/points made in the resultant discussion which are just out of order/founded on nothing but rumour.

Firstly, anyone can contribute which means lots of people are lifting stuff from the mainstream and pasting in - not that bad in its own right as a lot of stuff inthe mainstream gets ignored in the business section for example - but it's up to the public to decide what to paste into the newswire and not the IMC collective as incorrectly implied.

I'd like to state that the BBC have played no role in funding IMC people anywhere. Anyone in Prague paid for it themselves - yes, there's lots that can be said for taking a cheque from your boss wherever you work but let's ignore that for now.

OK, the uk. prefix might be fraught with problems but - as people will know - organising/deciding is often a hurried decision which will have supporters/antagonists in equal numbers. Meanwhile, the ball is rolling on sub-regional groups and hopefully that will allow people to break away from this regrettable aspect of London-centrism. Yes, the IMC in the UK has focused specifically on events and has maybe been boosted by the adrenalin of these events themselves.

The rules - as I think a lot of people will agree - are there for a good reason. Comments aren't being removed they are being diverted. It takes a lot to get up off your armchair and report something so having that take as much prominence as some load of old SWP bollocks is an insult. Reporting is hard work which takes time and energy - that what the priority is - comment is ten a penny and hence the need for a 'filter'. It's not as conspiratorial as some may like to believe.

Laters, Y'all.

Cap'n Curly

Animal Rights?

14.01.2001 13:38

Does anyone know why there is never any info of animal rights actions on indymedia?

Mr Pie

Animal rights

14.01.2001 20:55

Have the people who attend animal rights actions bothered to submit a report to indymedia? Do the people who attend animal rights actions know about indymedia?

foxy

If you haven't seen it...

15.01.2001 17:08

...IMC Sweden have a little different design to IMC UK and the IMC US sites.

Have a look at  http://www.yelah.net
It's all in Swedish so it may bee hard to understand, but then the text isn't inportent. The point I want to make is rather that a less darker site would briten up the visitors initail impression.

Only a suggestion though

Regards
Tomas

Tomas Malmsten
mail e-mail: tomas.malmsten@visto.com

more information and debate

16.01.2001 09:05

It seems to me that the major problem with the uk.indymedia is that not enough people use it. Very few actions are reported, and the debates often don't have a new response for months on end.
The main indymedia site is very american-centric, but at least when you log on every morning you can expect to find new stories.

olie
mail e-mail: oliebrice@hotmail.com

Some thoughts about IMC.

23.01.2001 14:33

Some thoughts about IMC.
by richard 5:28am Tue Jan 23 '01

We should change the title of this website from (IMC)
Independent Media Center to (AMC) Anarchist Media Center.

Hi,
After some serious thought, I think it is fair for those who are not
Anarchists or are not familiar with Anarchism, but do want to get
involved in activism, that we do the right thing and push to
change the title of this website from IMC to AMC.

Being a long time Anarchist and reader of this medium, I think
we end up fighting with people who are not Anarchists over
anything, instead of organising to fight the capitalist system.
Which was the original purpose of this website.

I think it is deceitful and dishonest that we persist calling this an
"Independent Media Center" when really it is dominated by us,
and when someone disagrees with us we blast them. I do not
think it is right.

What do you guys think we should do?

repost

IMC / AMC

23.01.2001 15:34

Interesting proposition to call this website AMC. Though isn't this really what Ainfos and Infoshop are?

Yes it is true that there have been arguments between various groups played out on this site - but isn't that what the add comment bit is supposed to facilitate - some discussion.

As to the original purpose of Indymedia being 'organising to fight the capitalist system' I think you are mistaken. The purpose and best use surely is to provide reports on such fights, not to organise them. I also don't agree that people arguing on this site is some loss to the fight against capitalism. I mean have you seen the sorts of ranting hate that goes on on many discussion mailing lists (even those that are supposed to be organising something)?

The fact that there are arguments, discussions and rants on this site is to me a healthy sign. It also strikes me as funny that the people involved in this site have been accused of being everything under the sun from a secret cell of the SWP to RTS - though it is certainly true that different IMC sites in different countries seem to all have slightly differing priorities.

While I disagree with your renaming suggestion it might be an interesting exercise to make people register with the site before posting anything, at which point you could ask them if they are an anarchist or not, which flavour if they are, whether they are a member of any political party, if they are a member of any other group or NGO etc etc The results would be quite interesting. On a more serious and practical note, perhaps a visitors poll could be set up?

R Oak
mail e-mail: roak@logfile.co.uk

Re: yelah.net - sweden site

23.01.2001 15:49

One of the posts above said have a look at yelah.net because they layout the site differently. I just had a look and you could say it looks 'nicer'.

BUT they've got banner ads for a corporate recruitment company 'Stepstone' ( http://www.stepstone.se/ or stepstone.co.uk in this country) on their frontpage!!

As far as I am concerned this is far worse than any arguements or criticisms of this site.

How can they take corporate banner advertising on an IMC site?

R Oak
mail e-mail: roak@logfile.co.uk

More posts not fewer

05.02.2001 15:10

More posts not fewer. When you view quarrels or consorship from a distance one is often
confused. Articles submitted are published. It's easy. On Canadian sites we have people
slagging cross posts. If I want to know US material I go to a US site. If I want to know UK
stuff I go to a UK site. The UK is the current name of where you live. The name does not
express your support of that name. Dividing material by area is a form of threading. If you
look at Ontario or Quebec you will find that the material is concintrated in the areas where
the activists live. That's where people get to know them. One can only praise volunteer
organisations. If a particular banch of the movement requires its own site then more
power to them. I look to Indy-Media world wide as an opening to the resistance movement
of the various areas. I also visit sites specific to certain views, eg. A-Info and IAC.

Keep it open. Keep it free. Keep your Karma clean.

in solidarity

Ol' Red
mail e-mail: wmcs@real.on.ca

the truth is out here stuff the police

09.03.2001 02:42

indymedia should have its own chat rooms also there should be posters for sale u can make some really good money from it ive seen on other sites good posters like the rabbit with the spanner and th davros site with lil girl holding the skis she is so cool there are some really good art pictures out there u should have a place where people can down load them all or buy them from you i would love them in house thry are fucking nice i dont care what the law sys or the police its a free counrty we wont take there shite laying down they make me sick im a shamed to be english when the this anzi racist goverment jsut wana censor everything from tv books sex films food and fuck knows what else well i say fuck goverment take back your counrty and freedom stand up to them fuckers we put them in govement we take them out if the goverment was set up in the old days we can sure bring it down to its kness ITS PAY BACK TIME PS MR BLAIR ILL BE BACK ASSTA LIVSTA BABY FROM THE CYBER_FREAK

cyber_freak
mail e-mail: no way

No to AMC

09.04.2001 21:23

Firstly I would like to say that I consider myself to be an Anarchist. I don't think humanity could cope with it yet, but it's an ideal. Despite this I don't think this site should be called the Anarchist Media Centre for one reason: solidarity. I thought the entire point of sites like Indy Media was to bring together communists, anarchists, maoists, animal rights campaigners, radicals, trade unionists, envionmentalists etc. We may not agree on everything but much of what we are fighting for overlaps and bringing us all together helps to strengthen and inspire us all.

Viva grassroots globalisation!

Disillusioned kid