Indymedia Birmingham, UK | Another BNP Venue Targetted in Leeds

Look here...

30.03.2008 06:37

This type of action will do little to 'bring down the BNP'. It is more likely to solidify certain elements rather than fragment them.

If you knew anything about the BNP, as a structure, organisation and the relationships involved, you would have realized that it is a very fragmented party due to infighting, corruption and general power struggles.

These observations should give you a better idea how to 'attack' the BNP and fragment it further i.e. info/intel war and subversion from within, ala l'agent provocateur.

Q

Keep Up The Street Pressure

30.03.2008 22:25

I have spent the best part of 6 years campaigning against the BNP. Rallies, leafletting etc etc.

Anyone who comes on here saying that little acts like this are pointless knows abolutely nothing abot the BNP. The BNP are not bothered about anything at all except direct action at street level. That really rattles them.

Mainstream politicians mouthing off, people bing oh-so pompous, letters to the press, - they couldn't care less about and pay scant regard to.

But you start taking them on at street level and they squeal. Even little actions like this. They do not like being marginalised and they do not like people shying away from them because of potential hassles.

So well done for your direct action and keep it up.

andy

andy....

31.03.2008 07:42

I could not agree with you more that taking action against the BNP on a street level is a great strategy. Just I do not classify vandalism as 'taking action on a street level'; setting up stalls next to the BNPs, mirroring their canvassers, and having bodies in situ at each of the BNP's street 'actions' would all be valid 'actions against the BNP at a street level'....as are the strategies I suggested in the above post.

Precisely where in my opening post do I promote a really passive approach or suggest merely writing letters?

If you are so familiar with the BNP, pray tell me the number of factions and faction leaders in the BNP on a national level.

Q

Q

Yawn...

31.03.2008 08:30

This work is neither political or militant. Nor will it stop the BNP: You can only stop the BNP by militant actions if you stop them from meeting. This is like shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

Nor does posting it on indymedia mean that Yorkshire's publicans are going to see this and ban the BNP

Grow up.

Proper AFA

Well done

31.03.2008 13:00

Some Yorkshire publicans may be happy to host the BNP, but their insurers and the breweries may be less happy about it when the pubs the BNP use come under attack. West Yorkshire is the only area where the BNP have to routinely use re-directions by security teams. This ties up resources and costs them money, as does constantly having to find new venues.

From the way you talk Q, anyone would think you were the only person who thought about these matters. Actions like this don't place without strategic thinking by people who are dedicated and committed anti-fascists. Nor do they take place in isolation, they are just one tactic to oppose the BNP.

As for the other keyboard warrior on here, BNP meetings HAVE been attacked while in progress, as have BNP stalls. Perhaps if a few more of those who claim to oppose the BNP were actually prepared to do something we might be able to launch such actions with greater regularity, and do a lot more besides. Don't criticise those who act while you're doing nothing yourself.

Well done to the anti-fascists who did this, we need to do all we can to oppose the BNP.

Jim C

@ Q

31.03.2008 16:05

Hi Q,

I'm the Andy that ran the Pub in Oldham that was the meeting place of Oldham ANL.

I'm the Andy that has his picture & details on about 4-5 entries on the REDWATCH site.

I'm the Andy that was recently described by Mick Treacy (former chair of Oldham BNP, now England Firsy Party) in the Oldham Chronicle as "one of the few real Nemeses I've ever met"

I'm the Andy who was attacked three times by NF & C18

Anything else you want to know Q?

Andy

I'm with Andy and the Yorks antifascists

31.03.2008 18:54

' I'm the Andy that was recently described by Mick Treacy (former chair of Oldham BNP, now England Firsy Party) in the Oldham Chronicle as "one of the few real Nemeses I've ever met" '

Nice one Andy! And WTF are you Citizen Q? If you spent half the time you spend trolling the antifascist threads on Indymedia trolling Stormfront you'd have dealt the BNP a mortal blow by now! WTF do you think you are to think militant antifascists need YOUR approval?!

Jog on!!!

Andy and Jog On

31.03.2008 23:56

Andy, I am sincerely sorry that you have been physically assaulted. What were the circumstances of these assaults and were they reprisal attacks for past actions such as vandalism or violence?

Regardless of these details, you still have not convinced me that you know about the BNP organisation on the level that I asked after. And the Oldham branch details were quite freely available on the Oldham BNP site before it was pulled by Griffin, due to it being hosted by the same server provider as Stormfront and that emails were exchanged between the Oldham and Stormfront web teams regarding support. Not to mention the amount of cross posting between both sites by members of each forum.

Jog On, I have been involved in non-violent strategies to disrupt BNP activities on the Internet, though I can't really talk about this too much as it is ongoing project. My comments are not trolling as you describe, rather I am just expressing the opinion that violence begets violence and does little to disrupt the BNP and the more fascist groups out there. For example, one need only correlate ballot box and polling success with the time frame of these attacks to realise they have little effect beyond encouraging reprisals.

Q

FAO John and the others

01.04.2008 07:46

I would seriously warn anyone against posting their personal details or details of their activities on here. Q, you may be sincere, but you are potentially endangering people's security. If you're not a cop or a fascist troll, I'm afraid to say you have the same modus operandi as one.

My personal opinion is that you are completely wrong in what you say. If you think you are doing something to counter the BNP, good luck. It's a shame you have to criticise and undermine other antifascists, who in my opinion are probably doing a great deal more than yourself. Why don't you just get on with what you're doing, and cease what appear to be blatant fishing expeditions on this thread and at least one other? Unless, that is, you ARE a cop or a fascist trolling for information. I hope you are neither, but people should be warned about you.

anon

Election results

01.04.2008 08:14

"For example, one need only correlate ballot box and polling success with the time frame of these attacks to realise they have little effect beyond encouraging reprisals. "

Eddy Morrison's bump on the head did fuck all for his election results in Bramley! You are talking rubbish 'Q'. If you weren't, we could all quietly ignore the BNP and other fascist groups and they'd quietly whither away. Personally, I think they need confronting.

Red N Black

anon

01.04.2008 08:31

As I a stated in a post under the other newswire header, I have not asked for any details to be posted here and outlined how I will contact.

all the best

Q

Q

Oh!

01.04.2008 08:47

I also wanted to say that I am not criticizing those that use the strategies that andy has admitted, such as leafleting, counter-stall protests at BNP stalls/events etc. This is indeed good and much needed work and strategies that I have also personally engaged in in the past.

However, I am criticizing those that advocate violence and vandalism; though to make very clear, I am an advocate of self-defense at the point of being physically attacked by people such as C18, when antifa set up counter stalls and leafleting campaigns. To my mind this differs from reprisal violence and vandalism post the initial assault.

all the best

Q

Q

Red....

01.04.2008 09:01

If you are referring to Eddy Morrison that stood in 2006, well that was not, as far as I remember, under the banner of the BNP that is the focus of these news wires and posts; rather it was the BPP and he got, again if memory serves, 2.6% of the vote.

Just to address your other point Red, no where have I suggested just ignoring the BNP. Again you and others are choice picking my comments to suit your lambasting.

all the best

Q

Q

Electoral results

01.04.2008 19:42

What you said Q was "I am just expressing the opinion that violence begets violence and does little to disrupt the BNP AND THE MORE FASCIST GROUPS OUT THERE (my emphasis, and the cause of my reference to the BPP.) As with your comments about bullying, you seem to have a selective memory about what you've previously posted.

Red N Black

Mr Black...

02.04.2008 05:18

Red, you are misunderstanding my position re bullying. To say the posts here indicate bullying is different from saying all antifac are bullies. Second, there is absolutely no way you can correlate 'a bump on a head' as causing a 2.6% share of the vote; what about all the other legitimate street actions such as leafleting etc. ?

If you still think beating people up and vandalism are so effective, please cite other examples of share of votes dropping due to these measures you and your friends advocate. I'll look into each one; I suspect I will find that such actions have had little effect, and that other more legitimate actions are responsible for any drop in vote share.

Q

Mr Q...

02.04.2008 10:22

I don't know what this word 'antifac' means Q, I have not encountered it before, but you have repeatedly tried to paint the people who carried out property attacks on BNP venues as 'bullies', along with everyone posting on these threads apart from yourself. I do not think it is bullying to resent your disparaging and patronising posts, or to suspect you of being a cop or an ally of the BNP on a 'fishing expedition'.

I very much doubt that the people who carried out the actions under discussion, of which I personally hope there are many more, restrict themselves to these kind of acts. I would be surprised if they did not also engage in leafleting and other opposition to the BNP (though I find your suggestion that people set up stalls alongside the BNP contemptible.)

In the case of Eddy Morrison for example, the response to him standing in Bramley from Antifa was to close down the BPP PO Box by picketing it (a picket which was physically attacked and defended.) A 40 strong group then went into Bramley to leaflet against the BPP, delivering thousands of leaflets door to door. According to Indymedia, Morrison and another BPP activist were then given a beating, preventing him from attending a BPP rally, canvassing over the next few weeks, and forcing him into temporary retirement. He was afraid to even attend the count. Now according to you, Morrison's 'bump on the head' should have resulted in reprisals and only enhanced his electoral standing. It did not. Because you are talking rubbish, and rather tired rubbish at that.

I am sure Antifa engage in all sorts of cointelpro/psyops type activities, via the internet and elsewhere. Because they do not tell YOU about them does not mean these things occur, and only someone as arrogant as you clearly are would imagine otherwise.

Antifascists need to embrace a range of tactics to oppose the BNP, but those tactics cannot be restricted to liberal measures, which have often proved to be ineffective. The BNP, and certainly;y not the BPP, have no genuine commitment to electoralism, for them it is simply a tactic. Not a tactic to seize power via the ballot box, even Eddy Morrison is not mad enough to imagine that, but to raise their profile and increase their street presence, pushing the whole political agenda to the right as they do so. Elections mean nothing to fascists, only the streets do, and it is on the streets that they must be confronted and opposed, and where all the significant victories against the BNP and their ilk will occur.

If you really think the activities undertaken in the past by AFA had no significant effecf on the ability of fascists to organise in this country then you really are truly clueless.

Red N Black

"I'll look into each one"

02.04.2008 11:22

How very big of you to give anti-fascism your attention Professor Q! You really need to get your head out of your arse and stop being so arrogant and pompous. And from where I'm sitting, if you're not a cop, you're blatantly trolling the fuck out of the antifascist threads on Indymedia and acting as a stooge for the BNP.

cc

Hymn to Liberation

02.04.2008 12:01

“anyone would think you were the only person who thought about these matters” “keyboard warrior” “you're doing nothing yourself” “WTF are you” “trolling the antifascist threads” “WTF do you think you are” “If you're not a cop or a fascist troll, I'm afraid to say you have the same modus operandi as one” “you are completely wrong in what you say” “criticise and undermine other antifascists” “doing a great deal more than yourself” “blatant fishing expeditions” “you ARE a cop or a fascist” “people should be warned” “You are talking rubbish” “you seem to have a selective memory” “you have repeatedly tried to paint the people who carried out property attacks on BNP venues as 'bullies', along with everyone posting on these threads apart from yourself” “disparaging and patronising posts” “suspect you of being a cop or an ally of the BNP on a 'fishing expedition'” “I find your suggestion that people set up stalls alongside the BNP contemptible” “you are talking rubbish, and rather tired rubbish at that” “someone as arrogant as you” “you really are truly clueless” “liberals like yourself expressing identical opinions to the ones you are spouting now” “You don't seem to have done much to understand the position of militant antifascists, you have denigrated them as vandals and bullys. I fail to see why anyone would want to meet with you” “You should be ashamed of yourself” “if you're not engaged in a police information gathering expedition and I think you probably are” “turn up to a public event and moan there” “your disparaging views” “If you're not in the pay of the state you're missing a good career opportunity” “people like you whined from the sidelines” “sneering gob-shite like you” “potentially endanger themselves by meeting you” “why are you sniffing around here” “your patronising rubbish” “overinflated idea of your own importaqnce” “I think you've got 'Rat' written all over you” “Clueless Fuckwit” “Oh poor me….. (more self pitying rubbish) “Ignorance is Strength” “Blah. Blah. Blah.” “I'm the Sherriff of Nottingham I am” “you probably think you can invite them into YOUR 'community' for some 'dialogue, while you slag off anti-fascists” “You really are excelling in claptrap” “shows you for what you are” “there's you and your silly little alter-egos” “Indymedia isn't supposed to be about your personal therapy” “get some proper one-to-one counselling and give us all a break” “We know where you live and where you work muppet” “What a joke!” “You on the other hand are always going to get a slap” “your pretentious bullshit” “another alter-ego” “same tired old tune” “specious rubbish” “classic whining of the liberal” “too thick to see a difference” “liberals, being white and middle-class” “posturing plays no part” “painting them as unintelligent thugs” “genetic throwbacks” “Scratch a liberal, and there's a fascist lurking there beneath” “The whine of the pseudo liberal” “smartarse” “What utter bollocks” “cowards like you” “more corage than yourself” “Utter bollocks” “utter drivel” “liberal nonsense” “COWARDLY liberal nonsense” “Liberals like you” “opportunistic, self-interested cowards like you” “can the person disrupting this thread please go away and find something else to do?” “his ego is already big enough” “f*** off” “you’ve got off lightly” “a month away from Indymedia” “patronised by the style of your posts” “more bullshit than substance” “you don't really have much to say” “self-obsessed, excrement-fixated blusterer like yourself” “far less 'simple' than your own” “cowardly fashion” “bullshit you are writing” “obsession with excrement” “A clown trying to make Indymedia his own personal circus” “sneering, patronising fool” “truly clueless” “Clueless” “you don't half talk some drivel” “"Stupid is as stupid does"!!” “your self-righteous, condescending pontificating” “groan when they see you coming” “you think you're the only person really thinking” “patronising to the rest of us” “DOH!!!!” “I doubt you've seen the streets in a long time!” “LOL” “Pussies” “The solution is simple”

""

Cut & Paste

02.04.2008 12:09

That amount of cut & paste really is the hallmark of someone with absolutely nothing to say, not to mention of a rather large ego, and in this case the selective way in which it has been done would seem to indicate that this thread was trolled by ONE egomaniac, rather than several. What a friend to the BNP you are.

Antifascist

Put your money where your mouth is

02.04.2008 12:57

Hey Q, if you're determined to do a stall next to the BNP, why don't you go over to Barnsley this Saturday, the BNP do one just outside the markets. It's been turned over twice, but I'm sure you'd be very welcome to set up next to them.

Stop the BNP

FAO Q

02.04.2008 13:07

I see that Andy, clearly a dedicated antifascist, who you patronised in the most insulting way, has said who he is Q. So how about you say who you are Mr Bigmouth>? So far all you've done is slagged people off as bullies, while paying the martyr, and blatantly sought info on them and their activities. So who are you, and who are you involved with, assuming (for a moment) it's not the BNP and/or West Yorkshire Special Branch?

Leeds antifascist

A Short Ode to Unity

02.04.2008 13:22

“academic liberal tosspots” “should be a bloody target too!” “being white and almost certainly middle-class” “Is it imagination you lack I wonder, basic human empathy, or simply intelligence?” “You're being disingenuous” “I'm not alone in considering what you say to be nonsense” “liberals like yourself were complicit in the rise of Hitler” “What utter bollocks you talk”

""

Rent a quote

02.04.2008 16:22

You really don't have much to say for yourself do you? What is the purpose of your silly posts?

???

ur wordz

02.04.2008 16:42

rent a quote re; debate on bullying

""

" "

02.04.2008 19:06

Once again I see that antifascist threads on Indymedia have been hijacked and diverted from their intended purpose. Hard to believe this is not the work of the BNP.

J.J.

jj

02.04.2008 21:04

"Once again I see that antifascist threads on Indymedia have been hijacked and diverted from their intended purpose. Hard to believe this is not the work of the BNP."
More invective.

""

Little Sir Echo

02.04.2008 22:40

How very childish.

J.J.

what on earth is this site being used for?!

03.04.2008 00:58

i don't quite understand the politics if this needless bitching.
hey look i have the moral highground because i say that someone is a racist and a police informer/.
what on earth are you on about whoever siad this and why are you saying it,
yes, i am found at many public events, god forbid, perhaps even happy.
it sounds to me like you have some sort of sick problem.
perhaps you are the racist,
perhaps you are the BNP
or perhaps you're a stupid little idiot trying to gain moral highground by puttinm someone else down.
needless to say, i am not any of the above accused, ie a racist etc,
cheers for the support of friends who have told me about this obnoxious saddo.
Ru
ps sorry to use this website for personal points, but it seemed necessary with accusations like those.
also the use of address. can we have yours, False Petty Accuser?

Ru

jj

03.04.2008 07:54

"How very childish."
How very pertinent.

""

Echo

03.04.2008 16:00

Wow! 'Little Sir Echo' you've managed to write a whole sentence of your own. Perhaps you'll even have a reason to post soon.

Ollie

Ollie

03.04.2008 17:46

"Wow! 'Little Sir Echo' you've managed to write a whole sentence of your own. Perhaps you'll even have a reason to post soon."
Yet more reasoned argument. Nothing negative here.

""

Echo

04.04.2008 11:46

If you want reasoned debate Echo, how about making an original post? You can hardly expect anyone to respond to your selective cut and paste jobs, reasonably or otherewise. I hardly think it is unreasonable to regard what you're doing as rather silly. Are you just going to parrot that back now?

Ollie

Ollie

04.04.2008 14:39

The selection of cuts was entirely made up of comments made by people using or supporting direct action to fight against fascism via targeting and attacking venues hosting BNP meetings in and around Leeds. This apparently had led to some questioning of whether those tactics may or may not be effective in accomplishing what they set out to achieve, or whether they might be supplemented or supported by other methods. The "cut and pasted" comments arguably reflect the "views" of those who felt that these tactics (of targeting and attacking venues) do achieve their goal of making life difficult for the BNP (keeping them on the back foot, etc), given that the overall tone and content of the "comments" is consistent and largely repetitive. These comments were apparently felt by some to be bullying and not objective, and seemed to suggest that rather than encouraging discussion such "comments" seemed to proscribe criticism as being in some way offensive to the original proposition. This suggestion seemed to receive much the same response as all previous suggestions which did not "echo" the original proposition. It might be asserted that discussion and debate on these issues is beneficial to the development of strategies to combating fascism in all its forms, even by those who are not in total agreement with some of those strategies, or do not themselves participate in those kinds of strategies. That is the purpose of these "silly" posts.

""

The shameful trolling of this thread

05.04.2008 18:23

And another way of looking at it is that one individual hiding under a variety of identities has consistently disrupted this thread (and the previous one), and that posters are rightly pissed off with that - Not that all the quotes you've included are aimed at them, nor do they all appear to be from these threads. Your approach is not only disruptive, it is disingenuous. As for the actions against the BNP, the topic under discussion before you and your multiple personalities began trolling...

"Well done comrades, keep up the good work." "Well done Yorkshire lads and lasses. Would be good to learn whereelse the B.N.P. are meeting so that other anti-fascists can also act." "Well done. The only thing the BNP understand is direct action against them." "Again, well done. Non Pasaran " "fantastic stuff" "actions like this are a great boost to the community, let's keep finding out other venues " "Well done to whoever is prepared to take a stand before its too late" "As a Leeds local - I would like to say, well done to the activists that carried out this action." "the action taken by the activists involved is commendable" "We should be proud of Leeds and our Yorkshire heritage - one where fascists are not tolerated. " "WELL DONE LADS - MORE OF THE SAME PLEASE !" "And to the boys and girls who carried out the action reported: WELL DONE! " "Nice one " "well done comrades!" "WELL DONE to the people who carried out these actions. " "Well done " "No Pasaran" "Good work!!!!" "My hat goes off to those continuing the struggle, who are willing to confront this dirty, racist ideology on the streets, which is the only place that matters." "Keep Up The Street Pressure" "well done for your direct action and keep it up." "Well done" "Well done to the anti-fascists who did this, we need to do all we can to oppose the BNP."

Anyone reading through this and the other thread can see quite clearly that you lost the argument and then resorted to disrupting the thread. Shameful.

Antifascist

"Mirror to the Blind"

06.04.2008 10:39

“Disingenuous” is a word you’ve used before. Every single comment “cut and pasted” under the titles “Short Ode to Unity” and “Hymn to Liberation” was taken from one of three threads – “Another BNP Venue Targetted in Leeds,” “BNP Venues Attacked,” and “BNP No Platformed Again in Barnsley.” You will be able to cross reference every single comment to one of those threads. Three of the comments were targeted at someone calling themselves RVF. The purpose of including these three comments in the posting was to highlight the similarity of response to someone identifying themselves as a fascist, as against those who identified themselves, or rather were identified by you as “white, middle class, liberals, etc.” The comments "F*** off" and "you've gotten off lightly" were for some strange reason hidden or removed by someone with moderator access.

If this were one person trolling the threads then you might expect to see a gradual and understandable recognition of this through your own comments, which might lead to the degree of “pissed off” ed ness of which you speak. In fact the level of invective from you and your colleagues is immediate and sustained throughout all three threads. This means that either a) you identified said super troll immediately and on the basis of zero evidence, b) you assume that everyone is a troll who doesn’t agree with you, c) you despise anyone who disagrees with you, d) you are afraid of everyone you don’t know. If you are arguing that it is your right to be abusive to anyone who posts a comment on these threads which is at odds with your own set of beliefs, then maybe you need to revise your list of who you are actually against, and who you are fighting on behalf of. And what you are trying to achieve.

There is no disputing the level of support and commitment for and of those involved in the actions related to, or the depth of feeling against fascism in Yorkshire. It would be hoped that these things were open to discussion.

It might be inferred that each and every time you choose the most abusive and negative response to every single attempt to broaden the discussion is in fact undermining your own argument.

""

"Catholic Defender"??!!!!

08.04.2008 14:48

Morrison addresses the 'ubermenschen' of the BPP

Why don't you save your racist ramblings for Stormfront or one of the other silly fascist forums 'Catholic Defender, nobody on Indymedia is interested in reading this codswallop. One only has to look at your precious Benson & Hedges forum or VNN to see how deluded the 'ubermenscen' of the right are. You know you remind me of a certain Jewish BPP member in your ravings and lack of historical analysis. No Nazi has the right to talk about attacks on the young and elderly! You have the most cowardly ideology in history. Eddy Morrison is certainly no stranger to thuggery (nor to being a police informer for that matter), he just doesn't like it when he gets a bit of his own medecine. As for your 'security', don't make me laugh, just have a look at the BPP's 'Honour Guard', and as for the BNP, their security team didn't want to know when we tracked them down to their Oxford drinking den last year, they shit themselves. And that shoddy beer-sodden outfit the WHWB? 'Security'? Yeah, brilliant stuff, their 'Head of Security' stabs the founder through the heart and is now locked-up. Anytime, anywhere, anyplace.

Antifa

A mirror to the vain and self-obsessed

08.04.2008 15:43

I have not used the terms 'troll' or 'trolling' as forms of abuse, I believe they accurately describe the way that this thread has been consistently disrupted and diverted from the purpose of discussing the action it was set up to report. Whoever you are, I do think "you've gotten off lightly", so please stop whining, I'm sure the "white, middle-class liberals" can shoulder a few verbal sticks and stones just the way the rest of us have to. This thread isn't about you or your class, it's about the BNP and their opposition. As with the term 'troll' I am not aiming to be abusive by finding your posts trite, boring, and self-obsessed, that is merely, I feel, an accurate description of them. Further, should you take individual words from this post and present them in inverted commas out of their proper context, it would not only make for rather tedious reading, it would also be disingenuous :)

Antifascist

"Antifascist" as if

08.04.2008 21:49

Convenient assumptions as usual. You must give a few examples of when you weren't a twat to the (apparently) half dozen people who disagreed with you, then. You must help said individuals to understand the context of which you speak with such authority. I certainly don't doubt the sincerity of your words, only the validity of your cause. When you come to resemble those whom you claim to oppose, speaking in terms of pigeon holing, stereotyping, out and out bullying and firing prejudicial comments at individual posters, (all favoured methods of the NAZIS as a way to ridicule and dehumanize convenient scapegoats), then it is apposite that questions are asked. Your defensiveness and refusal to acknowledge that, yeah, it was pretty unkind and not wholly democratic and certainly not in the spirit of consensus, implies either that you are dogmatically conditioned or completely hypocritical. You keep talking about white middle class liberals - as if you know, which you don't - as if each of these posters should have to justify themselves to you. Go on, then, you justify your self to them and to me. Put your working class credentials up here for all to see. It's just words, the same words you trade with your paint ball pals at the BNP. "Who can be the most working class?" It would be laughable if it weren't lamentable.

""

Once again

09.04.2008 11:14

Once again " ", you have nothing to say but drivel. You accuse me of "abuse" and then call me a "twat"! And according to you I'M the hypocrite. I don't think there have been a half dozen people who I'VE disagreed with, rather I think it is, for the most part, one troll disagreeing with everyone else who has posted on this thread (and the other two you reckon to have taken quotations from.) Earlier, you (clearly insincerely) mumbled some belated support for local antifascists, yet now you show yourself to be unable or unwilling to see the difference between fascism and those who oppose it - and not for the first time. I really don't know what you're talking about by 'pigeon holing' or 'stereotyping', what do you think I've 'sterotyped' you as? Someone with nothing to say? That's not a 'stereotype, that's YOU. I think you'll find that racism, extreme nationalism, murdering their opponents, and setting up concentration camps are hallmarks of fascism, not disagreeing with one individual on Indymedia. Do you think you're being dehumanized " "? By who? It's a wonder that anyone bothers to respond to your silly non-posts. You have compared me to the Nazis, that is disgusting and beneath contempt, not only an insult to me, but an insult to the Millions who the Nazis killed. It is you, that because you have no argument, have resorted to bullying and insults, and you that are being defensive. What are you talking about 'undemocratic', 'the spirit of consensus', you are talking nonsense again. Why not try to at least think before you tap away at your keyboard. It is you that has this obsession with white, middle-class liberals " ", I really don't care or think about them very much at all. I have no idea what your class background is, nor have I brought it up. If you can justify your silly posts " ", good luck, I'm waiting to hear it. From what I see here though, you're increasingly descending into typing more and more drivel, and insulting drivel at that, and as I've said before that's not an insult, nor is it attempting to "stereotype" you or breach "the spirit of consensus", or whatever cod-liberal bollox you want to portray it as. It's simply, I feel, an accurate reflection of what you have to say, which I think is very little. Yes, these ARE just words " ", this is an internet forum not the street, what else would they be? At least they're my own words and not some parroted babble. Now stop being so defensive, and maybe go back to the little boy's playground :)

Antifascist

Don't trust this troll

09.04.2008 14:03

"Put your working class credentials up here for all to see"

Don't rise to the bait mate. This is not the first attempt this wanker has made to get info on people, if he's not a cop or a nark I'm a monkey's uncle

Joe

Predictable

09.04.2008 18:44

Predictable. Just an idiot without the brains not to risk other peoples security then.

Joe

Optional

09.04.2008 23:28

I feel closeness, a warmth, to each and every one of you. It might even be love, but such things have no place here. I am going to miss you all, and wish you the best with your struggles and your lives. I will continue to do what I do (away from here) which is to ask questions, then maybe find solutions. I understand that when the BNP go into isolated estates where no one gives a shit, and they pretend that they care, well, maybe if someone went into those estates and actually did care then the BNP would get less votes. There is a precedent with mono cultural targetting which has seen some success through youth service agencies. That's the hypotheses I'm going with anyway. And I will, too. And you can do what you do. But maybe try to be nice to poor folk who stop by this way, wondering what it's all about. Maybe don't assume that they are your enemies? Maybe demonstrate that you are better people than the mugwits with their twisted dreams of superiority who ignorantly lay claim to a reality which never existed in the first place. And most of all, Antifascist, I'll miss you.
Q - make of it what you will.
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Diss ownership

10.04.2008 07:33

" White, middle class, liberal AND PROUD!

10.04.2008 00:17
Fascism is an ideology which comes from the working class, so I'm not surprised to see you class warriors have so much in common with the BNP. All you think about is bingo and page 3 of The Sun. Oh, and of course scapegoating people like me, your enemy. How very convenient for you ill-educated bullys that I am middle class, it fits in with your Nazi agenda. Well I am PROUD to be middle class if it upsets you so much. You just want to fight in the streets like your pals in the BNP. Well I hope you'll all soon be incarcerated together.

" " "

That wasn't me, by the way, 'cause I'm pinkish tan, working class, libertarian, and extremely humble. Well, relatively, all things in moderation, etc.

X

:)

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