The Guardian: Britain prepares to take part in US strikes against Iran

Ah yes, early November, time for the "attack against Iran imminent" story again. Amusing to see the Guardian claim this as exclusive when it's almost word for word the same story in the Times, Daily Mail & Telegraph.

The US DoD has leaked it to pressure the Iranians after a request from Israel.

There is no way any plan to attack Iran is being considered. Iran may well be run by a bunch of religious nutters but they are bright enough to realise that the moment they reveal a nuclear weapon capability the US and/or Israel will bomb them back to the stone age. The IT attack on their plutonium processing facility set them back at least five years and their missile research is frankly laughable.

They are as much of a threat as Iceland is to France - this is a non story.

I bought todays Guardian and had a look through it.

It seems to be a spoiler put out by Whitehall. Clearly, the IAEA report is seen here as being unreliable as its based on flawed content from the intelligence services although its really not clear whether that involves British SIS or not. The Israeli's have been involved but they have been carrying out assassinations of key Iranian scientists in Iran in order to retard the Iranian program so they are dripping in their own agenda. This is what we have to expect from the Israeli's...the truth doesn't exist in the Israeli mind. They've spent so many years fabricating and cheating the system in the pursuit of their mad and deranged 'nation building' experiment that they can hardly be relied on to competently investigate anything, let alone the nuclear ambitions of a foreign state.

Add to that the fact they spend a lot of time 'associating' themselves with the more competent work of others and you get the picture. What seems to be key here, is the Israeli's are trying to play dice with an 'unpredictable' element. Which, it turns out, is wonderfully predictable!

If Iran gets the bomb, Israel will have no alternative but to play their own nuclear card...which they don't have. The Israeli's don't have their their own nuclear weapons, thats been a lie from the start.

Who in their right mind would give Israeli's these kinds of weapons?

The US, UK, French, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Pakistani and Indians might be a lot of things, but insane they are not.

Interesting statement and of course utterly wrong. Nobody gave the Israelis their nuclear weapons they were developed in country.

Israel possessed an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War. Although no official statistics exist, it is recognised that that Israel possesses from 300 to 400 nuclear weapons, which includes thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range.

Israel also possesses a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes. Israel is known to manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center, a highly secretive nuclear installation located near Dimona.

Delivery mechanisms include Jericho intercontinental ballistic missiles, with a range of 11,500 km, and which are believed to provide a second-strike option. Israel's nuclear-capable ballistic missiles are believed to be buried so far underground that they would survive a nuclear attack. Additionally, Israel is believed to have an offshore nuclear second-strike capability, using submarine launched nuclear-capable cruise missiles, which can be launched from the Israeli Navy's Dolphin-class submarines. Although the Israeli Air Force lacks strategic bombers to deliver nuclear weapons over long range, its F-15I and F-16I Sufa fighter aircraft are capable of delivering nuclear weapons.

What is known about Israel's nuclear program comes from revelations in 1986 by Mordechai Vanunu, a technician at the Negev Nuclear Research Center who served an 18-year prison sentence as a result. Israel has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

"Delivery mechanisms include Jericho intercontinental ballistic missiles, with a range of 11,500 km, and which are believed to provide a second-strike option. Israel's nuclear-capable ballistic missiles are believed to be buried so far underground that they would survive a nuclear attack. Additionally, Israel is believed to have an offshore nuclear second-strike capability, using submarine launched nuclear-capable cruise missiles, which can be launched from the Israeli Navy's Dolphin-class submarines. Although the Israeli Air Force lacks strategic bombers to deliver nuclear weapons over long range, its F-15I and F-16I Sufa fighter aircraft are capable of delivering nuclear weapons.

What is known about Israel's nuclear program comes from revelations in 1986 by Mordechai Vanunu, a technician at the Negev Nuclear Research Center who served an 18-year prison sentence as a result. Israel has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty."


Nuclear states:

China population 1,338,299,500
France population 64,876,618
Russia population 141,750,000
UK population 62,218,761
USA population 307,006,550
India population 1,170,938,000
Pakistan population 173,593,380
North Korea population 24,346,229



Former nuclear states capability dissolved due to removal of nuclear weapons by the Soviet Union:

Belarus population 9,490,500
Kazakhstan population 16,316,050
Ukraine population 45,870,700



Former nuclear states capability dissolved due to political collapse:

South Africa population 49,991,300



Nuclear states claiming to have nuclear weapons (no evidence):

Israel population 5,865,300.





As you can see from this list, the world is made up of formally recognised nuclear states among nations with the largest populations in the world. Next up are those states that have been formally recognised as nuclear states but have been removed from that classification because their nuclear weapons, which were actually owned by the Soiet Union, were removed back to the Russian Federation after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Then you have South Africa which developed 6 weapons between the 1960's and 1990's. As Apartheid fell apart these weapons were dismantled.

And lasty you have Israel. A nation with one of the smallest populations in the world and yet is apparently able to maintain not only its own weapons program, but is also able to maintain a submarine fleet, an airbourne delivery system, a satellite navigation system along with the horrendously costly infrastructure to not only deploy those weapons, but to keep them in a state of constant readiness and mobility. And all this before the cost of securing that systems across air, land and sea environments.

Israel does not posses a nuclear weapons program. It has never possessed a nuclear weapons program. There are no nuclear weapons systems developed inside Israel and no systems are ongoing or possible in the near or distant future.

Israel is not a nuclear state.

---Interesting statement and of course utterly wrong. Nobody gave the Israelis their nuclear weapons they were developed in country.---

No evidence at all exists to support this wild and inaccurate statement.

---Israel possessed an operational nuclear weapons capability by 1967, with the mass production of nuclear warheads occurring immediately after the Six-Day War. Although no official statistics exist, it is recognised that that Israel possesses from 300 to 400 nuclear weapons, which includes thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range.---

No official statistics exist because you DO NOT count warheads using statistics. And who exactly is recognising these claims? It certainly isn't the international community.

---Israel also possesses a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes. Israel is known to manufacture its nuclear weapons at the Negev Nuclear Research Center, a highly secretive nuclear installation located near Dimona.---

Now what on earth would any legitimate nation be doing with nuclear weapons stored in suitcases? The Negev Nuclear research centre is exactly that, a research centre. It does not produce anything at all...except research.

---Delivery mechanisms include Jericho intercontinental ballistic missiles, with a range of 11,500 km, and which are believed to provide a second-strike option. Israel's nuclear-capable ballistic missiles are believed to be buried so far underground that they would survive a nuclear attack. Additionally, Israel is believed to have an offshore nuclear second-strike capability, using submarine launched nuclear-capable cruise missiles, which can be launched from the Israeli Navy's Dolphin-class submarines. Although the Israeli Air Force lacks strategic bombers to deliver nuclear weapons over long range, its F-15I and F-16I Sufa fighter aircraft are capable of delivering nuclear weapons.---

This is utter garbage of the very worst kind.

11,500km is 7146 miles. The width of this planet is 8000 miles. So by your figure, Israel has tactical ballistic missiles capable of reaching pretty much any nation in the world. Is that what they are teaching you nowadays? Seriously! Israel has no underground bunkers, no second strike capability, no lions claw it can reach out from under the ashes. Its got nothing.

---What is known about Israel's nuclear program comes from revelations in 1986 by Mordechai Vanunu, a technician at the Negev Nuclear Research Center who served an 18-year prison sentence as a result. Israel has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.---

As opposed to satellite imaging, examination by the IAEA, environmental monitoring for contamination effect, fissile material collation and hazardous MAT testing, a swing-door policy that all nuclear nations abide by whether they are signatories to the non-proliferation treaties or not!

Instead, its got a bit of gossip from some junior tech worker who claimed to have seen something a bit odd in a research lab once.

These are two images of two types of submarines used by nations claiming to be nuclear states.

The first image is of HMS Astute which is a 7,400 tonne nuclear submarine carrying 38 Tomahawk Block IV cruise missiles, which cost about half a million pounds each. The Tomahawk missiles are capable of hitting a target to within a few metres if the target is within the range of 1,240 miles. It can remain submerged indefinately only needing to surface to take on food and supplies. It is maintained by the United Kingdom which is the sixth largest economy in the world and has a population of 62 Million. Its compliment is 109 sailors including officers and NCO's.

The second image is of the underwater crate Israeli Dolphin class submarine. It belches out diesal and when one can get it started (with a crank handle) it can run until it needs to be filled up again. It is manufactured by the Germans and can take up to 35 officers or IDF part-timers. It is claimed to be one of the most advanced submarines in the world but nobody in their right mind would ever want to go to war in one. It is electric and as you can see from the photo's, holds very very small nuclear missiles, so small in fact, even Posh Spice couldn't fit in the tubes that hold them.

Whist it cannot be ascertained to be 100% certain (on account the Israelis tend to play mind games with the rest of the world on this matter), there is a lot of evidence to state that Israeli does have a nuclear capability. Indeed Mordechai Vanunu paid dearly with his kidnap and imprisonment to leak knowledge of the Israeli nuclear capability to the outside world.

As for a military campaign in Iran, the armed forces are too stretched in Afghanistan and (in the case of the US) Iraq, and the economic situation would make yet another war political suicide. They politicians aren't THAT stupid...

The Type 800 Dolphin class is a diesel-electric submarine developed and constructed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW), Germany for the Israeli Navy.

The Dolphin boats are the most expensive single vehicle in the Israel Defense Forces and are considered among the most sophisticated and capable conventional submarines in the world.

Each submarine is armed with 6 x 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes, which are also capable of firing Sub-Harpoon missiles, and 4 x 25.5-inch (648 mm) torpedo tubes. The submarines are also able to deploy mines.

Jane's Defence Weekly reports that the Dolphin class submarines are nuclear armed, offering Israel a second strike capability.

The Federation of American Scientists and GlobalSecurity.org report that the four larger 25.5-inch (648 mm) torpedo tubes are capable of launching nuclear-armed Popeye Turbo cruise missiles (a variant of the Popeye standoff missile) with a range recorded by the US Navy of 1,500 kilometres (930 mi).

In May 2000 Israel carried out its first test launches from two German-built Dolphin-class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The missiles launched from vessels off Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean hit a target at a range of about 1,500 kilometers [about 930 statute miles].

Israel has developed an air-launched cruise missile that was operational in 2002, called the Popeye Turbo. The Popeye Turbo, with a range that is variously reported at between 200 km and 350 km, would appear to represent a turbo-jet powered cruise missile that may incorporate avionics and other components developed for the Popeye family of missiles. The AGM-142 HAVE NAP is a variant of the Israeli Air Force "Popeye" missile, which uses a solid propellant rocket motor. The Popeye II, also known as the Have Lite, is a smaller missile with more advanced technology. Designed for deployment on fighter aircraft, Popeye II has a range of 150 kilometers.
The Popeye Turbo missile is probably similar to if not identical with the Israeli submarine-launced cruise missile carried on the Dolphin-class submarines. The baseline Popeye missile with a range of 45 miles has a diameter of 21 inches, and is nearly 16 feet long. For comparison, the American MK-48 heavy torpedo is 21 inches in diameter, and 19 feet long, while the BGM-109 Tomahawk SLCM is 20.4 inches in diameter and 20.5 feet long [including the booster motor], and the Russian SS-N-21 SLCM is similar in configuration and dimensions to the American Tomahawk.

The range of 1,500 km for the SLCM tested in May 2000 is several times greater than the previously reported range for the Popeye Turbo.
There is no particular reason to doubt that Israel could develop a variant of the Popeye Turbo with a range of 1,500 km, simply by lengthening the fuel tank associated with a 300-350 km variant reported by US intelligence.

Hmmmmm,

Does look very odd I have to say.

Hard evidence to say Israel isn't nuclear and agit-prop and gossip to say it is.

"Fake it till you make it". Aint that the truth!

"Hard evidence to say Israel isn't nuclear "

And what would that be ?

I now think the apparition of two Jehovah's Witnesses who rang my doorbell yesterday may have a different meaning than I had gathered. Perhaps I was too hard, it was perhaps not that funny, as I look back. Suddenly there stood these two women with the trust of a ten-year-old in their eyes. I confess I had an uncontrollable impulse to make fun of them, it must be sadism, be it altogether justified by experience, before one of them lifted the veil and moved her hand in a bag she had and I faintly saw the tip of a Watchtower.
I softened not at all, at least not enough. I had thought they were some neighbors, or members of a neighborhood council whose letters I don’t open, plotting to inspect me or my garden under the pretext of being interested, and steal some of my new plants, the women looked attractive, just now the extradition of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to Sweden is near, over alleged rape of two women. I could not judge them for believing in the end of time, since I had started about it myself. I said there is some dark and misty cloud hanging around I am trying to transform. I pointed to the sky.
My mention of the Great Whore in the Apocalypse was only a punctuation, in reply to the question what my interests were in life, after I had said I have none. It was only later that evening when I saw Sonny Rollins on tv, that my heart softened a bit, and I actually saw there was something even touching about these women. As I reflect now they probably came to see me in connection with the impending nuclear war. I had given them little, say no, time at all to speak, so the short one on the left with the curly blond hair, could only interrupt me and sneak in that Christ will conquer.
I believe I was chosen to inform you, and at the same relieve my conscience a bit I had shut her up.

I don't think its nuclear.

Its just propaganda to keep its sordid little enterpise for nationhood alive.

If you think about its constant cheating and lying about its conduct and behaviour against Palestine then it doesn't take a genius to work out that its tendency to lie about its might is also a cheat.

Israel is a magpie nation.

Interview with Mordechai Vanunu: Israel preparing to use nuclear weapons against Iran

Global Research, 2 January 2006
Voyenny Parad, No. 4, 2005 (original Russian)


The first rumors of Israel working on its own nuclear bomb arose back in the mid-1950s, when the Jewish state's scientific institutions started serious nuclear physics research. But only in 1986 did the rest of the world find out the real scale of Israel's work on nuclear weapons, thanks to Israeli nuclear scientist Mordechai Vanunu. With the assistance of Irish journalists Sean O'Carroll and Maria Escribano, we have managed to interview Israel's most prominent dissident. Mordechai Vanunu told us about the threat of a nuclear catastrophe hanging over the Middle East.

Question: You say that Israel already has nuclear weapons. Iran is on its way to acquiring them. And these two countries regularly exchange threats about bombing each other. How likely is a nuclear conflict in the Middle East?

Mordechai Vanunu: All I can say is this: the Israeli government is preparing to use nuclear weapons in its next war with the Islamic world. Here where I live, people often talk of the Holocaust. But each and every nuclear bomb is a Holocaust in itself. It can kill, devastate cities, destroy entire peoples. The Israeli Defense Ministry has long had a nuclear arsenal. Israeli intelligence tried to keep the existence of this arsenal secret from the outside world, but fortunately did not succeed. Nevertheless, they are still trying to silence me - even now, after seventeen-and-a-half years in prison.

Question: Do you know how many nuclear bombs Israel has?

Mordechai Vanunu: When I worked at Dimona, nuclear materials were already being produced there - plutonium, lithium, tritium, and others. Enough to make ten nuclear bombs per year. In other words, starting from 1985, Israel has over 200 nuclear warheads by now.

Question: Why did you decide to speak out in 1986?

Mordechai Vanunu: I simply could not help it. Incidentally, now the Western countries, including the US, that condemn Iran for its intention to destroy Israel should condemn themselves first of all. It were they that gave nuclear technologies to the Israelis and helped them to build the center in Dimona where the atomic bomb was created, although the Israeli government did not recognize this fact.

(...)

Question: Israel and Iran are on the threshold of nuclear confrontation now. Is nuclear apocalypse inevitable in Middle East?

Mordechai Vanunu: No doubt, the main reason for this confrontation is the Palestinian problem. For many decades Palestinians have been living in occupation like in prison. They will never stop fighting and sacrificing their lives for the sake of liberation.

Question: But this is not a justification for terrorism and statements similar to those made by the President of Iran when he promised to "wipe Israel off the map"?

Mordechai Vanunu: Killing Palestinians, including civilians - demolishing their houses and pushing people into ghettoes - isn't that terrorism?

General in Israel for secret Iran talks

by Anshel Pfeffer, Jewish Chronicle, 4 November 2011


High-level defence talks - with Iran at the top of the agenda - took place this week in Britain and Israel as reports of a possible strike against Iran's nuclear programme intensified.

Defence Minister Ehud Barak arrived in London on Wednesday for talks with his UK counterparts, immediately after a visit to Israel by the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Sir David Richards.

The talks took place as reports suggested that Britain was ready to back the US in a possible strike on Iran.

No official details were released in either country regarding Mr Barak's meetings with Defence Secretary Phillip Hammond and National Security Adviser Sir Peter Ricketts, or General Richards' talks with the IDF Chief of Staff, Lieutenant-General Benny Gantz. But a senior Israeli official said that "naturally, at these meetings, the Iranian situation is at the top of the agenda."

General Richards' visit to Israel was kept secret until after he left the country and comes barely a year after the visit of his predecessor, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup.

These two visits took place after a decade in which Britain's most senior soldier did not visit Israel. They underline the increasingly close defence and intelligence relations between the two countries which have remained strong, despite sometimes tense diplomatic relations.

Both Netanyahu and Barak are known to favour an attack on Iran

The mutual visits took place at a time when both the British and Israeli media are reporting the possibility of military action against Iran, either by Israel on its own or by the United States, aided by Britain. It is rare that a public debate on the pros and cons of an Iran strike takes place in Israel.

It is not yet clear whether Israel has made the decision to attack, but Mr Barak told the Knesset on Tuesday that the recent developments in the Middle East could "lead to situations in which Israel will have to defend its interests or act on our own, without needing to rely on regional powers or others for help."

The Iranian dilemma came to the forefront early last month when US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta visited Israel and Egypt and said in Tel Aviv that the US was "very concerned, and we will work together to do whatever is necessary to keep Iran from posing a threat to this region." But doing so "depends on the countries working together," he added.

Mr Panetta's statement was seen in the Israeli media as a warning from the Obama administration concerned that a decision has already been made in Israel to attack Iran in the near future.

The timing of this debate is no coincidence. Next week, the International Atomic Energy Agency is scheduled to publish a new report on Iran's military nuclear programme. At the same time, Israeli military experts believe that the chances of a successful airborne attack on Iranian installations during the winter months are dramatically lower.

Talk within defence circles of this "window of opportunity" has led to speculation that Mr Netanyahu's willingness to sign off on the controversial Shalit prisoner exchange deal was a "clearing of the table" before a possible attack on Iran. Both Mr Netanyahu and Mr Barak are known to favour an attack on Iran, while previous chiefs of the IDF and Mossad have said over recent months that sanctions and other methods should still take precedence over military actions.

The current chiefs are also believed to be reluctant to launch a strike now without US support. At least half of the "Octet," the Israeli cabinet's senior decision-making forum, is also currently opposed to an attack. One of its members, Benny Begin, said on Wednesday that carrying out such discussions in public was "obscene."

While Israel's leadership is not prepared to admit to preparations, the IDF has been unusually open about details of a large-scale exercise its combat jets carried out last week with NATO air forces, 1500 miles from Israel's borders, over Sardinia.

In addition, on Wednesday the Defence Ministry carried out a test-launch of a ballistic missile over the eastern Mediterranean, and the IDF launched a civil defence exercise, simulating a missile attack on Tel Aviv.

The ministry insists that all these were planned months in advance, but their public revelation together is hardly pure coincidence.

Responding to media reports about the visit to Israel of the British Chief of the Defence Forces, a Ministry of Defence spokesperson said: "General Sir David Richards was visiting Israel for a planned, routine trip."

Privately, senior MoD officials flatly refuted suggestions that Britain was ready to be part of a US-led attack on Iran.

I doubt that Israel has a nuclear capability.

From my travels, it seems to me that Israel's nuclear program is simply a scientific line of enquiry designed to research the subject of nuclear weapons production and will often make that information available, through its security and intelligence services, to the UN, media and various governments around the world to implicate its enemies. Israel is all about posture.

Whats contained in the IAEA report about Irans supposedly nuclear program is simply the best available information that Israel has so far researched itself through its research program. Israel doesn't have a nuclear program but needs to maintain the veneer of one in order to provide the "evidence" needed to maintain its hostile posture.

The IAEA report that just came out is dripping with fabricated "evidence". Nobody beleives a word of it.