The activist community, especially the anarchist community, discriminates against middle aged people. We get photographed by so called "cop watch" activists at demonstrations for no other reason than being middle aged
re-posted from-
http://publish.portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/01/309347.shtml
It works both ways. 27.Jan.2005 06:13
Joe
The activist community, especially the anarchist community, discriminates against middle aged people. We get photographed by so called "cop watch" activists at demonstrations for no other reason than being middle aged. So called "anarchists" such as Flint Jones of Baltimore IMC cite our age as a reason why "we can't possibly be anarchists."
discrimination a shame 27.Jan.2005 11:47
tabatha link
It's a shame some anarchists don't think the middle aged can be anarchists. I'm 32 and sometimes I feel mistrusted because of it. The shame in assuming all elders are cops or just not to be trusted is that you lose the advantage of their wisdom and experience. I've learned quite a bit by talking with some of the older people at protests.
It's especially fun to talk with people who remember the sixties. I think the movement needs to be all inclusive to survive. Even the teenagers among us have a fresh perspective that would be a shame to lose. I think it's great that this young guy is posting. Start 'em out early, I say!
And you "used to be" an anarchist, eh? I question whether you really understood what 'anarchy' is? I don't even know what it is exactly, and I've claimed that (albeit, useless) title for many a year.
Anarchy isn't about taking sides, it's about taking back what you want and need to survive as a happy, healthy, free humyn being. Which sounds like something you are looking for, maybe?
Kids can make a change, but no cop, teacher, or legislature will do it for you.
Kids can make a change, but no cop, teacher, or legislature will do it for you.
The other side of age-ism 29.Jan.2005
Ryan
A. Someone quoted me above there! That's pretty neat.(noggrant)
B. Don't forget that there's another side of age-ism where young people like myself constantly leave-out and distrust older folks in the movement.
I have seen this many times and especially on the DNC2RNC march it was a big deal. We as young people who recognize the negative force of ageism should make sure we investigate our own oppression in this matter. Word.
Solidarity from the east!
another side of "ageism" 29.Jan.2005
just another "old" guy l
yea, ageism is a drag. my experience of it is from the other side.
i turned 50 a month ago and now a couple of my "friends" don't want to talk to me any more. one says he didn't know i was so "old"!
it's interesting the treatment you get when people realize your actual age. i don't look 50 years old so people don't treat me like i'm old. but when i tell somone my actual age, they tend to treat me VERY differently. funny how folks react to you once they've put you in their "age" box isn't it?
Ageism and activism 30.Jan.2005
2C
While I understand the frustration of the original poster, I have to agree with the people who have pointed out how much more pervasive and difficult the other side of ageism is.
Ben will be over 18 soon enough, but those over 40 will never be younger again.
I'm not even 40 yet, and I fear ever telling anyone in the activist community my real age, because those under 30 inevitably treat me differently when I do.
I get sideways barbs even from people who consider themselves my friends: people in their 20s who don't realise how close they are to being in their 30s. They say things to me to imply that I don't know as much or am not as cool because, you know, well I'm like...older.
It seems snide and hurtful, and the only way I get past it is to realize they will be my age soon enough and will eat those words.
It comes down to whether we want a real community or merely a "scene." I, for one, am sick of the scene.
Ageism's real face 31.Jan.2005
Anarchist Woman
I'm not trying to make light of your concerns, Ben, but we live in a culture that purposefully glorifies youth.
It's a throw-away culture where youth is commodified and the wisdom gained from age is dismissed.
I've seen many anarchists and other radicals buy into this philosophy, without even realizing they're being duped by consumer-oriented sales tactics. The reason youth is valued in this culture is simply that the young tend to have more disposable income, since they often have money but often do not have financial obligations. Therefore, they are an attractive and lucrative market -- it's called "disposable income," and it's played to in the media endlessly. Movies, commercials and all the other voices of our culture emanating from commercial interests target, and therefore glorify, the young and make the old invisible so that many people blindly buy into this manufactured worldview.
Ageism against older people is a huge problem in this society. While I had concerns like yours not long ago, I have since realized that ageism against older people is a much bigger problem.
As someone said above, you will soon be over 18, but you will not be able to go back in time. Therefore, ageism against the young is a temporary thing, made more tolerable by all the many advantages of youth offered by our culture. Ageism against the old, on the other hand, is a permanent thing.
And there are few benefits to that.
Some of the most rockin' activists I know are middle-aged or older women. And yet they are often excluded and usually ignored or patronized by younger activists.
It SUCKS, it's clueless, and it terrifies me because I'm afraid when I get to be their age, maybe I will be ignored and excluded and dissed as they are. This is really an important thing for us to consider as a community, and I will no longer tolerate ageist garbage and condescending attitudes toward older people. I urge everyone else to make the same decision.
Closing Comment 31.Jan.2005
Ben
After having a very heartfelt conversation with many of people, I have reached a conclusion. There is a comment two comments up from mine that puts people of certain age in a certain category. It could be bad, it could be good, it doesn't matter it is still ageism. I agree with all of you that elders have it bad too. I just had a discussion at the film fest with a Ellen or as known as Z on indymedia. She said that there is a narrow age limit on when you have all your rights and are not discriminated against. It just so happened we were both on the discriminatory opposite sides. But why does there have to be differen't sides. Elders are wise, and the youth are the ones being heavily effected. Can't law and society profit us all the same.
I do, however, disagree with some propositions made about elders and protesting. They have the same rights that people of 20, 30, 40 and even one hundred years of age. When I say rights I mean what the law allows us to have. When you are under 18 you automatically BY LAW, can't vote, can't contact anyone from jail, have a 12 o'clock curfew (NO MATTER WHAT EVENT), have to have a parent take you out of jail, must have parents know about any illegal activity, or legal in some cases, you partake in, cannot be legally quoted, does not have as much witness rights as adults, and the list goes on. I know its tough on elders when it comes to protests. By reading this I will never question an elders capability to be at a protest (not that I ever did before). But that is social discimination elders are taking.
The youth have legal discrimination against us. Under law, WE DO NOT HAVE A VOICE. I thought we were supposed to be treated equally, we have a voice to, dont we? We are not all, as said before, people with to much money that do not know where to spend it. I know how to spend my money and just because I am 15 doesnt mean that I am economically stupid. So does that not make me young. That is what ageism is.
For the comments a long ways up where it says that it's not the middle aged, college students responsibility, we as a youth should protest, so I should stop my ranting. That is a really great idea. I'm going to go gather up some of my friends and protest right now. Why didn't I think of that? Oooo ya wait a second, WE CAN'T. No offense to the commenter. But I am sick of this. Everyone thinks it's our responsibilty to do this, but the truth of the matter is the laws that most of the public supports are ageist. This makes it impossible for us to do anything about it. So I turn to the only thing I can legally do, write and angry rant. And sure I will become 18 in three years but what about the 15 year olds before me and the 15 year olds before them. When will they have a chance to speak. Never, by the way things are going. This is where it changes, right here, right now. Not when I'm 18 and am to busy dodging the draft to care about youth. It has to start someplace, it has to start sometime. What better place than here, what better time than now?
Mortality, The Great Leveler 14.Feb.2005
Ivan l
The great thing about life is that we learn things along the way, or maybe we don't. Well, there's always next time I guess. People who exercise ageism in their dealings with other people have motive for their actions. Often times, a person might discriminate against another person because they fear something, or they fear something personified by someone or something.
The older I get, the more I tend to think that most of our lifes hopes and dreams and fears revolve around sex and death. Marketing people will tell you this. We are all people. Be kind to one-another.
http://publish.portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/01/309347.shtml It works both ways. 27.Jan.2005 06:13
Joe
The activist community, especially the anarchist community, discriminates against middle aged people. We get photographed by so called "cop watch" activists at demonstrations for no other reason than being middle aged. So called "anarchists" such as Flint Jones of Baltimore IMC cite our age as a reason why "we can't possibly be anarchists."
discrimination a shame 27.Jan.2005 11:47
tabatha link
It's a shame some anarchists don't think the middle aged can be anarchists. I'm 32 and sometimes I feel mistrusted because of it. The shame in assuming all elders are cops or just not to be trusted is that you lose the advantage of their wisdom and experience. I've learned quite a bit by talking with some of the older people at protests.
It's especially fun to talk with people who remember the sixties. I think the movement needs to be all inclusive to survive. Even the teenagers among us have a fresh perspective that would be a shame to lose. I think it's great that this young guy is posting. Start 'em out early, I say!
And you "used to be" an anarchist, eh? I question whether you really understood what 'anarchy' is? I don't even know what it is exactly, and I've claimed that (albeit, useless) title for many a year.
Anarchy isn't about taking sides, it's about taking back what you want and need to survive as a happy, healthy, free humyn being. Which sounds like something you are looking for, maybe?
Kids can make a change, but no cop, teacher, or legislature will do it for you.
Kids can make a change, but no cop, teacher, or legislature will do it for you.
The other side of age-ism 29.Jan.2005
Ryan
A. Someone quoted me above there! That's pretty neat.(noggrant)
B. Don't forget that there's another side of age-ism where young people like myself constantly leave-out and distrust older folks in the movement.
I have seen this many times and especially on the DNC2RNC march it was a big deal. We as young people who recognize the negative force of ageism should make sure we investigate our own oppression in this matter. Word.
Solidarity from the east!
another side of "ageism" 29.Jan.2005
just another "old" guy l
yea, ageism is a drag. my experience of it is from the other side.
i turned 50 a month ago and now a couple of my "friends" don't want to talk to me any more. one says he didn't know i was so "old"!
it's interesting the treatment you get when people realize your actual age. i don't look 50 years old so people don't treat me like i'm old. but when i tell somone my actual age, they tend to treat me VERY differently. funny how folks react to you once they've put you in their "age" box isn't it?
Ageism and activism 30.Jan.2005
2C
While I understand the frustration of the original poster, I have to agree with the people who have pointed out how much more pervasive and difficult the other side of ageism is.
Ben will be over 18 soon enough, but those over 40 will never be younger again.
I'm not even 40 yet, and I fear ever telling anyone in the activist community my real age, because those under 30 inevitably treat me differently when I do.
I get sideways barbs even from people who consider themselves my friends: people in their 20s who don't realise how close they are to being in their 30s. They say things to me to imply that I don't know as much or am not as cool because, you know, well I'm like...older.
It seems snide and hurtful, and the only way I get past it is to realize they will be my age soon enough and will eat those words.
It comes down to whether we want a real community or merely a "scene." I, for one, am sick of the scene.
Ageism's real face 31.Jan.2005
Anarchist Woman
I'm not trying to make light of your concerns, Ben, but we live in a culture that purposefully glorifies youth.
It's a throw-away culture where youth is commodified and the wisdom gained from age is dismissed.
I've seen many anarchists and other radicals buy into this philosophy, without even realizing they're being duped by consumer-oriented sales tactics. The reason youth is valued in this culture is simply that the young tend to have more disposable income, since they often have money but often do not have financial obligations. Therefore, they are an attractive and lucrative market -- it's called "disposable income," and it's played to in the media endlessly. Movies, commercials and all the other voices of our culture emanating from commercial interests target, and therefore glorify, the young and make the old invisible so that many people blindly buy into this manufactured worldview.
Ageism against older people is a huge problem in this society. While I had concerns like yours not long ago, I have since realized that ageism against older people is a much bigger problem.
As someone said above, you will soon be over 18, but you will not be able to go back in time. Therefore, ageism against the young is a temporary thing, made more tolerable by all the many advantages of youth offered by our culture. Ageism against the old, on the other hand, is a permanent thing.
And there are few benefits to that.
Some of the most rockin' activists I know are middle-aged or older women. And yet they are often excluded and usually ignored or patronized by younger activists.
It SUCKS, it's clueless, and it terrifies me because I'm afraid when I get to be their age, maybe I will be ignored and excluded and dissed as they are. This is really an important thing for us to consider as a community, and I will no longer tolerate ageist garbage and condescending attitudes toward older people. I urge everyone else to make the same decision.
Closing Comment 31.Jan.2005
Ben
After having a very heartfelt conversation with many of people, I have reached a conclusion. There is a comment two comments up from mine that puts people of certain age in a certain category. It could be bad, it could be good, it doesn't matter it is still ageism. I agree with all of you that elders have it bad too. I just had a discussion at the film fest with a Ellen or as known as Z on indymedia. She said that there is a narrow age limit on when you have all your rights and are not discriminated against. It just so happened we were both on the discriminatory opposite sides. But why does there have to be differen't sides. Elders are wise, and the youth are the ones being heavily effected. Can't law and society profit us all the same.
I do, however, disagree with some propositions made about elders and protesting. They have the same rights that people of 20, 30, 40 and even one hundred years of age. When I say rights I mean what the law allows us to have. When you are under 18 you automatically BY LAW, can't vote, can't contact anyone from jail, have a 12 o'clock curfew (NO MATTER WHAT EVENT), have to have a parent take you out of jail, must have parents know about any illegal activity, or legal in some cases, you partake in, cannot be legally quoted, does not have as much witness rights as adults, and the list goes on. I know its tough on elders when it comes to protests. By reading this I will never question an elders capability to be at a protest (not that I ever did before). But that is social discimination elders are taking.
The youth have legal discrimination against us. Under law, WE DO NOT HAVE A VOICE. I thought we were supposed to be treated equally, we have a voice to, dont we? We are not all, as said before, people with to much money that do not know where to spend it. I know how to spend my money and just because I am 15 doesnt mean that I am economically stupid. So does that not make me young. That is what ageism is.
For the comments a long ways up where it says that it's not the middle aged, college students responsibility, we as a youth should protest, so I should stop my ranting. That is a really great idea. I'm going to go gather up some of my friends and protest right now. Why didn't I think of that? Oooo ya wait a second, WE CAN'T. No offense to the commenter. But I am sick of this. Everyone thinks it's our responsibilty to do this, but the truth of the matter is the laws that most of the public supports are ageist. This makes it impossible for us to do anything about it. So I turn to the only thing I can legally do, write and angry rant. And sure I will become 18 in three years but what about the 15 year olds before me and the 15 year olds before them. When will they have a chance to speak. Never, by the way things are going. This is where it changes, right here, right now. Not when I'm 18 and am to busy dodging the draft to care about youth. It has to start someplace, it has to start sometime. What better place than here, what better time than now?
Mortality, The Great Leveler 14.Feb.2005
Ivan l
The great thing about life is that we learn things along the way, or maybe we don't. Well, there's always next time I guess. People who exercise ageism in their dealings with other people have motive for their actions. Often times, a person might discriminate against another person because they fear something, or they fear something personified by someone or something.
The older I get, the more I tend to think that most of our lifes hopes and dreams and fears revolve around sex and death. Marketing people will tell you this. We are all people. Be kind to one-another.