Army Parade on 5th. December

Either this is a police wind up or very, very poorly conceived. The 5th is when the EDL will be marching in Nottingham and trying to make antifascist opposition to them look like it is opposition to 'our boys'. A protest against the troops is exactly what they want.

Whilst many people are angry about the war in Afghanistan the politicians and media cleverly encourage support for our 'heroes' in Afghanistan - even if you don't agree with the war criticism of the troops is seen as a hanging offence. Public opinion is against the war but you can bet that any protest against this march will be deeply unpopular.

I agree that there it is necessary to end the war but is this really the best way to do it?

No, this is not a wind-up. Precisely because of the Government and media campaign to depict British troops as "heroes" it is necessary to oppose the mass killings of Afghanis that they are carrying out. The soldiers are not automatons and are responsible for what they are doing. Saying that they are simply obeying Government orders is no justification. Some of them will have deep misgivings about what they are doing and need to be challenged and encouraged to break ranks.

The EDL provocation should be opposed but this should not be an excuse to ignore the Army. After all, the EDL are jumping on the bandwagon of the Government campaign depicting Muslims in Britain as "terrorists" precisely because many of them are outraged by the slaughter of their co-religionists in Afghanistan. The EDL are trying to terrorise Muslims in Britain and the British Army are terrorising them in Afghanistan. Both should be opposed.

I think this is a bad idea - although I oppose the military interventions in afghanistan, a few people shouting at the soldiers who are returning from there (after seeing some of thier mates killed) amidst major public support on the 5th, would be an own-goal and a gift to the EDL and what they are trying to achieve. The reality is that the unpopularity of the afghan war is based around concern for our troops for most people, not for any more progressive viewpoint - if you demonstrate against the military march (objectionable though some of us may find it), most people will think you are a bunch of wankers. There are times and places to make your point, and that is NOT it. Rather than waste any energy in exacerbating an already polarised situation, let's just get ready to confront the EDL and make sure they don't come back.

For each dead British soldier returning in a Union Jack draped coffin the British Army have killed several hundred Afghanis who are defending their homeland from foreign invasion. This needs to be pointed out to the people who are only concerned about the British dead.

It is pure opportunism to go along with the popular sentiments generated by the Government and media propaganda campaign whereby our "boys" are seen as the victims. We should encourage people to oppose this murderous war because it is an unjustified attack on the Afghani people and not because NATO forces seem to be losing.

Apart from some Muslims in Luton earlier in the year, I know of no anti-war actions when troops have been paraded apart from a few of us demonstrating in Nottingham two years ago. The truth is that many people with anti-war war sentiments feel cowed into inaction for fear of a public backlash. We need to be bold and in Nottingham two years ago we were surprised at how many of the spectators expressed their opposition to the war in Afghanistan. Opposing the EDL should not be used as an excuse for ignoring the Army.

Tony Blair killed no one, in fact he never picked up a gun.
Our 'hero boys' did all the killing, with the support of the ordinary hard working, anti-war protesting british tax payer. Each and every one of us should face our own guilt.

of victims with money from the oil pipelines. Most British soldiers arent murderers or there out of intent to repress afghanistan.
The Taliban "students" who are linked to Al Queada were originally grown& sponsored internationally by corporate america against the Soviet Union& they are generally nasty people. I remember seeing their treatment of men & women+ destruction of culture in the 1990s& thinking they must be one of the nastiest groups in the world& that it would be nice if a international brigade helped stop them.

The Taliban arent any better than the Northern alliance"warlords", a very mixed bunch, some of whom under Dr Abdullah recently rebelled against President Kharzai& debatedly won the corrupted election.

The Afghani people do need stable democracy& the most democratic groups who support human rights do deserve protection if they call for it by independent international peacekeepers.This will be hard to make work unless there is democracy & economic power in the hands of people.



I want to support the sentiments of this demo, but as others say with EDL in town it will be tricky, plus I know other groups as well as stop the war are against the tactics & strategy of this demo.
Most activists in the UK opposed the Soviet union physically & rhetorically when it became apparent power was put into an elite vangaurd hands by Lenin & then solidified by Stalin after a democratic revolution.
Its sucks that Anti imperial activist who supported the Soviet Unions empire globally during the stalinist phase now call people who genuinely want to support democracy mint imperials.
AIA is right Maoists-Stalinists recently have fought for democracy in Nepal& are now taking part in a more democratic coalition government that has taken over from the king. But they arent lilly white& can easily be accused of using child soldiers& Maoists demands before the civil war helped cause it.

Monarchy,corporate oligarchy,politburo, not much difference

Not sure exactly what Tolkien would say about the Mercian tribe on who he based the Riders of Rohan, but at the moment they do seem to have become under the control of "Saroman",Chevron oils rep for the region & the people of Helmand deep province aint happy. Only strong a democratic coalition can make it right.

Green S.

You should see how much dissent there is about these wars within the army ranks, if we could see outside of our anarchist ghetto's for a brief moment, there is reason and opportunity to support dissenting soldiers.

It is true that the Afghanis fighting imperialist invasion in Afghanistan are led by the Taleban who are very reactionary with respect to women, schooling, etc.. There is no other effective opposition, not least because of the bad name that the Soviet invasion gave to socialism and communism. (After the Soviet invasion the Afghani Maoists had to pretend they were Muslims so as to fight the Red Army!) It is also true that the drug running warlords who took over in the 1990's after the Soviet withdrawal were so unpopoular that the Taleban were able to lead the people in getting rid of them. These same warlord criminals were imposed on the Afghani people after the US/UK invasion in 2001. Their regime would collapse if it were not for the support of many thousands of NATO troops. In so far as the Taleban effectively oppose the imperialist invasion they should be supported because they are weakening capitalist imperialism which is our enemy as well.

As for the British Army, they have been invading Afghanistan on and off since 1838 with the result that the British are hated in Afghanistan. There are some soldiers who as a result of their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan know that these wars are wrong. We can encourage them to make a stand by going along to the military parades and telling them not to fight the war. At present the Government and media are winning the propaganda war by getting growing numbers of people to support the "heroes". We should combat this trend.

A few years ago, public sentiment about the armed forces was at an all-time low, driven by two unpopular wars. Squaddies were advised not to wear their uniforms in public, were refused service at bars and shops, and there were attempts to ban the armed forces from universities.

Politicians and the armed forces reacted, enlisting the media in a PR counter-offensive. There has been a constant drip-feed of propaganda dressed as news; stories about brave heroes and their families. And this has worked; public opinion has swung back in support of the armed forces.

This is dangerous and it needs to be challenged. I think it's a bit tragic that even amongst radicals, people don't want to speak out in public against the armed forces that are waging imperialist wars.

However, I cannot agree with Ross's approach; that the Taliban should be supported because they are the only effective resistance to NATO. The dictum that "my enemy's enemy is my friend" is as stupidly simplistic as Bush's false dichotomy "you're either with us or with the terrorists". If the Taliban win, then Afghanistan goes back to a dark ages of repressive theocracy.

76 Anarchist's comments on the impact of the Government and media propaganda campaign on changing attitudes to the Army and radical people avoiding challenging the Army are spot on.

But this position of "a curse on both your houses" as far as the Taleban go is incorrect. While formally condemning British imperialism, leftists in Britain usually have condemned those fighting against it. This was noticeable during the anti-imperialist struggle in Northern Ireland. The "left" supported the slogan "Troops Out of Ireland" while at the same time condemning Sinn Fein/IRA.

It would be nice if in Afghanistan there was significant resistance led by pacifists, vegetarians, anarchists, socialists, communists etc. but there is none. Imagine if there were no resistance. The Western imperialists would claim that imperialist occupation is what people want and would be off on other "civilising" missions, saving women, etc..

Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan was sparked off and stimulated by first the Soviet invasion and then revived by the Western invasion. The Afghani people have been subjected to an unjust attack and occupation. Whoever effectively opposes the imperialists is serving the interests of all oppressed and exploited people in the world, however reactionary they may be in other respects.

Let's set an example in Nottingham by challenging the troops. It might catch on.