Nottingham city centre is one of the most heavily surveyed places on the face of the earth, outside of London. All in aid of 'crime reduction policies' they say. Newham in East London is still streets ahead though with its system that involves the Mandrake Facial Recognition System. They have been testbeding it for a few years now.
Them watching us
http://www.spy.org.uk/n-mandrake.htm BBC News Candid camera for criminals
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/191692.stm Face Recognition - More than you think!
http://www.morethanyouthink.com/security/mandrake.html Privacy International 'Big Brother Awards'
http://www.gn.apc.org/tash/big_brother.htm Then, after a few tweeks, it will be rolled out nationally, including here of course. All very expensive of course. Which means a displacement of crime to other areas, not as advertised, 'crime reduction'
In addition to the 'civic' and police cameras, there are of course, loads of cameras outside of shops, bars, transport termini, mobile on the buses, trains and trams. As compression and bandwith advances, the internet will allow the combining of ALL of the sources, to the various control rooms. All this before I even get round to telling you about the ID card Database
http://www.nottingham-no2id.org.uk and the convergence of those technologies with CCTV in the street. Scary eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance Inverse surveillance, sometimes known by the neologism "hierarchical sousveillance" ("seeing from below" hierarchically), refers to the recording or monitoring of real or apparent authority figures by others, particularly those who are generally the subject of surveillance. Steve Mann, who coined the term, describes it as "watchful vigilance from underneath". (The term stems from the contrasting French words sur, meaning "above", and sous, meaning "below", i.e. "surveillance" denotes the "eye-in-the-sky" watching from above, whereas "sousveillance" denotes bring the camera or other means of observation down to human level.)
The more general concept of sousveillance goes beyond just inverse surveillance and the associated 20th Century political "us versus them" framework for citizens to photograph police, shoppers to photograph shopkeepers, or passengers to photograph taxicab drivers. Just in case THey do something wrong, you understand .....
******
In December last year, I went on a walk-about with Artist and designer Jez Noond of Nottingham Trent University. He has produced a complex map of Nottingham city centre CCTV charting the different networks in use and the extent of coverage. It shows their overlap of fields of view and how they triangulate almost any position in Nottingham city centre.
Short Sharp Shots: A Tour of CCTV in Nottingham City Centre
http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2005/12/329575.html In addition to the crime reduction / shoplifting detection / public order cameras of the city centre, there are of course the traffic cameras. You are allowed to see the output of these. Check out:
BBC Nottingham City Centre Jamcams
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/webcams/city_jamcams.shtml TravelWise Nottingham CCTV
http://www.itsnottingham.info/tvframe.htm and then there are the mobile platform cameras
Nottinghamshire Police Surveillance Vehicles and Evidence Gathering
http://indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2005/08/320469.html and...... the heavy mob:
Prime Minister visits Nottingham University :: Surveillance Operations
http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/01/331596.html *****
If you want to know any more about me interest in surveillance, please check these links out:
surv - start:
http://tash.gn.apc.org/surv_10.htm surv - watched:
http://tash.gn.apc.org/watched1.htm surv - face recog:
http://tash.gn.apc.org/face_rec.htm surv - Nomad:
http://tash.gn.apc.org/nomad_10.htm surv - mayday 2000&1:
http://tash.gn.apc.org/surv_mday1.htm I say be afraid, be very afraid ......
____________________________________________
ALAN LODGE
Photographer - Media: One Eye on the Road. Nottingham. UK
Email:
tash@gn.apc.org Web:
http://tash.gn.apc.org WAP phone
http://wappy.to/tash My Blog
http://tash_lodge.blogspot.com BroadBand
http://tash.dns2go.com Member of the National Union of Journalists [No: 014345]
____________________________________________
"It is not enough to curse the darkness.
It is also necessary to light a lamp!!"
____________________________________________
OS Grid Ref: SK 575414 - Lat/Lon: 52:58:03N, 1:08:38W
e-mail:
Homepage:
A free society?
04.03.2006 02:11
CCTV systems...
It's getting there
...
04.03.2006 11:41
M
Who you calling a mug?
04.03.2006 12:54
The rape example is simply misleading. Eighty plus percent of rapes are carried out by somebody known to the victim. CCTV isn't neccesary. What's needed is a social network to help the victims and a serious thoroughgoing challenge to the patriarchal structures which encourage rape.
Disillusioned kid
e-mail:
disillusioned_kid@yahoo.co.uk
Homepage:
http://disillusionedkid.blogspot.com
...
04.03.2006 14:05
I think people should try living in a shithole before being so pious on the issue. I live in a block with CCTV in the entrance and lifts, vandalism is minimal and breakins virtually unheard of. Across the road a friend lives in a block with no CCTV, the lift has a perpetual pool of piss, looks like a NYC subway and is bashed to hell and frequently out of order. Gangs of neds regularly congregate there to drink and abuse the residents.
Which block would you rather be living in?
I don't particularly like the idea of CCTV, but if it means that I don't have to step in a puddle piss to get in/out or encounter knife-wielding shitheads, I can live with it. Add to that the bonus of the occasional psycopath get sent down, and I can think of greater infringements of civil liberties to be worried about.
There is a small minority of arseholes out there, the more things that make them behave themselevs the better. THEY are more of an antisocial problem than CCTV.
M
...
04.03.2006 15:27
I think people should try living in a shithole before being so pious on the issue. I live in a block with CCTV in the entrance and lifts, vandalism is minimal and breakins virtually unheard of. Across the road a friend lives in a block with no CCTV, the lift has a perpetual pool of piss, looks like a NYC subway and is bashed to hell and frequently out of order. Gangs of neds regularly congregate there to drink and abuse the residents.
Which block would you rather be living in?
I don't particularly like the idea of CCTV, but if it means that I don't have to step in a puddle piss to get in/out or encounter knife-wielding shitheads, I can live with it. Add to that the bonus of the occasional psycopath get sent down, and I can think of greater infringements of civil liberties to be worried about.
There is a small minority of arseholes out there, the more things that make them behave themselevs the better. THEY are more of an antisocial problem than CCTV.
M
George Orwell was born Eric Arthur Blair...
04.03.2006 18:47
Or is that comical... I'm sure the little one is Marvin the Paranoid Android, and the other is Jonny 5!
All just more junk for the tips, sooner or later...
Tim the practicing thought criminal
The generalized panopticon
04.03.2006 19:05
So whe the capitalist state offers us a panoptic (2) society of control (3) to suppress the symptoms of its own making, we should be vary wary. Remeber the words of the anarchist Errico Malatesta:
"the only limit to the oppression of government is the power with which the people show themselves capable of opposing it" (4)
So what are we going to do about it?
(1)
(2)
(3)
(4)
(A)
Police cameras in your home
04.03.2006 22:15
What do you make of security professionals denying they are an effective tool ?
British Study Says CCTV Cameras Don't Deter Crime - AP
"An estimated 4.2 million cameras now observe the country's 60 million people going about their everyday business, from getting on a bus to lining up at the bank to driving around London. It's widely estimated that the average Briton is scrutinized by 300 cameras a day. For the Home Office-funded study, academics from the University of Leicester studied 14 closed-circuit TV systems in a variety of settings, including town centers, parking lots, hospitals and residential areas. Only the parking lot scheme was shown to cause a fall in crime. Previous studies of the effectiveness of CCTVs have come to similar conclusions. "
The crime reduction claims being made by CCTV proponents are not convincing. Three recent criminological reports (Home Office, Scottish Office and Southbank University) have discredited the conventional wisdom about the cameras effectiveness. In a report to the Scottish Office on the impact of CCTV, Jason Ditton, Director of the Scottish Centre for Criminology, argued that the claims of crime reduction are little more than fantasy. "All (evaluations and statistics) we have seen so far are wholly unreliable", The British Journal of Criminology described the statistics as "....post hoc shoestring efforts by the untrained and self interested practitioner." In short, the crime statistics are without credibility.
And here's the kicker: Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt is also advocating that the local building code be changed to require that private apartment complexes install surveillance cameras. Hurtt even said he wants cameras installed, telescreen-style, in private single-family homes if he decides there have been "too many" calls for police assistance from the home. Hurtt invoked the name of Orwell's dictator in defending his radical proposition: "I know a lot of people are concerned about Big Brother, but my response to that is if you are not doing anything wrong, why should you worry about it?"
Danny
...in the kingdom of the blind.
05.03.2006 08:08
I fail to see how anyone can argue that this brief & lazy reply doesn't illustrate that CCTV at least helps solve cases and secure convictions. And if some consultant or researcher remains unconvinced about the deterrent factor, they should come round here for a visit.
Yes, their deployment should be scrutinised... and only a complete lunatic or someone with a campaign agenda would argue for CCTV enforced on a household- however if that's the only way to catch someone abuse their spouse & kids, I see the victims human rights overriding their attackers.
No-one round here but the neds have a gripe with the CCTV in the lifts, around the building and the car park. Like I said you only have to visit the block across the road where an 80+ pensioner was stabbed to death by a stranger and the place is a complete shithole to realise the issue of CCTV isn't as straightforword as some would have it.
I remember the same kind of whining when courts were allowed to consider video evidence for the first time; the same with DNA (and yes I think a national database is a step TOO far!)
I also think that speed cameras are in principal a(n abused) good idea because a sad minority of people are a mortal danger to others- especially in built-up areas.
The argument of CCTV only displacing the statistics? More cameras till crime has nowhere left to lurk. I'd rather we didn't live in a society bligted by anti-social and dangerous elements, but we sadly do.
M
It's not just criminals who lurk !
05.03.2006 15:24
Well, with 4.2 million cameras recording 24 by 7 they are bound to catch a few criminals.
>however if that's the only way to catch someone abuse their spouse & kids, I see the victims human rights overriding their attackers
What about the human rights of people wrongly suspected or accused of domestic abuse ?
>the block across the road where an 80+ pensioner was stabbed to death by a stranger
Would have been stabbed in your block too - unmonitored cameras don't deter serious crime, they just help convict - and only then in rare cases.
>More cameras till crime has nowhere left to lurk.
See, unfortunately it isn't just anti-social crime that has nowhere left to lurk. Legitimate protest also has nowhere left to lurk. If we had this level of surveillance in 1984 then you wouldn't have the miners strike, poll-tax protests, anti-war protests etc. With the police rolling out cameras in catseyes, free unhindered movement becomes impossible. Now if you love your state, trust your police and never commit any crime then you still have something to fear - I for one have lots to fear from this. You must admit that the UK is equipped with all the apparatus ( both legal and technical ) of a police state and even if you trust Blair not to abuse this then you can have no real confidence in future governments. What would you think of China installing cameras in everyones homes there ? Technology could reach such a saturation point of control that effective dissent is no longer possible, but the sheild/sword developments are always matched by serious criminals.
"Professor Martin Gill is correct but understates the problem. The truth is that over 80% of all installed surveillance CCTV, mostly wide FOV fixed cameras, is totally useless for Police purposes. The weakest link is the digital video recorder (DVR ) as most are rubbish producing unusable fuzzy blobs as images. Unfortunately so many, and that includes many interviewed by Martin Gill, do not have the slightest idea what a surveillance CCTV system is supposed to provide. The prime and most positive purpose is to provide archive stored video evidence of a crime to facilitate arrest and evidential quality images for sucessful prosecution. I see hundreds of such video streams every week but very few, less than 10% are of any value. If you are an imaging specialist or CCTV manager in either a Police Force or Local Government then if you identify yourself and your snail mail address I will send you a 70 page document that expands on the problem."
Lee Tracey - Imaging Division, Photographic Department, West Midlands Police, Lloyd House, Birmingham -
"The home secretary, Charles Clarke, is transforming Britain into a police state, one of the country's former leading anti-terrorist police chiefs said yesterday.
George Churchill-Coleman, who headed Scotland Yard's anti-terrorist squad as they worked to counter the IRA during their mainland attacks in the late 1980s and early 1990s, said Mr Clarke's proposals to extend powers, such as indefinite house arrest, were "not practical" and threatened to further marginalise minority communities."
Danny
TASH - Important !!
05.03.2006 16:22
Anyway I thought you may want to contact them if you haven't already -
kontaqt
General info on activities, quintessenz spokespersons:
International kampaign coordination:
"
A team of Austrian computer activists have demonstrated a method of hijacking police CCTV cameras, in protest over increased surveillance of public areas in their country's capital. A group called Quintessenz used an off-the-shelf satellite receiver to intercept the video signal transmitted by a surveillance camera overlooking a busy square in the capital Vienna. The feed had been crudely scrambled by modifying the analogue video signal but the activists were able to unscramble it using commercial video processing software. This enabled them to view everything recorded by the camera, and revealed both its capabilities and shortcomings. "The funny thing was, the camera wasn't able to see right below itself," says Christian Moch, a spokesman for Quintessenz, "so people could carry out drug deals underneath it without being seen".
Moch says Quintessenz decided to hijack the camera to protest over a law introduced in Austria in 2005 permitting police to install surveillance equipment in public places without obtaining a warrant. "They're watching our every move and that's just wrong," he told New Scientist. "It's too close to the book 1984." Part of the stunt saw the activists experiment with different ways to block the video camera's view – they found that laser pointers and balloons were both effective. Since they carried out the prank, the police have started using cameras that transmit their video feed via a cable instead of using a radio link.
Quintessenz members Martin Slunksy and Adrian Dabrowski demonstrated the camera trickery at the 22nd annual Chaos Communication Congress, an event for computer security buffs held in Berlin, Germany, between 27 and 30 December. The event is coordinated by the German Chaos Computer Club, a renowned European activist group.
Campaign groups in the UK have similar concerns over CCTV surveillance. The UK has 4 million public CCTV cameras – more than any other country in Western Europe.
"On occasion it can be very useful," says Doug Jewell, campaign coordinator at the UK organisation Liberty. "But we don't think it's the magic bullet that the government thinks it is." Jewell says studies have shown that changing street lighting can have a bigger impact on crime reduction than the introduction of CCTV cameras. He adds that those who live in London are likely to be captured on CCTV cameras up to 300 times a day. "It's also the databases that accompany these systems that are concerning," he warns. In December 2005, the British government disclosed plans to track all vehicles with software that recognises registration plates. Records of these vehicle movements may then be kept on a database for between two and five years.
"
Danny
Evil genius or criminal mastermind ?
05.03.2006 17:15
For all enquiries contact:
Tyco Integrated Systems, Bridge House, Saxon Way, Bar Hill, Cambridge CB3 8TY.
Tel: 01954 784000, Fax 01954 784010
Danny
As usual
05.03.2006 17:26
Nah, I actually hope you get banged up for criminal damage before that happens.
The world is safer with selfish children like you out of the way.
As for the misuse of anything. It's the misuse that is more inportant than the vehicle. Should we all torch shoe shops because someone got a kicking?
"What about the human rights of people wrongly suspected or accused of domestic abuse ?" Diddums is all I can say. If you save lives & distress it's worth it. I suppose you oppose trying people for rape & murder or any crime just because some are bound to be innocent.
Go search news.bbc.co.uk for literally thousands of examples of cases that either benefitted or rested solely on CCTV footage.
Time you grew up and joined the real and very complex world Danny, before you ruin someone's life.
M
Troll be gone
05.03.2006 18:03
I sleep fine - I know what the cameras I hit were for - they weren't residential.
>Nah, I actually hope you get banged up for criminal damage before that happens.
I have been banged up on suspicion of intent to cause criminal damage, just for attending a peaceful demo - and then let out 12 hours later 60 miles away with an apology. Have you ever been arrested for peaceful protest ? Your constant unquestioning support of establishment causes makes David Blunkett look libertarian.
>Should we all torch shoe shops because someone got a kicking?
I don't think you should do anything. You post on an activist web-site saying you are happy to have security cameras in every home, I think you have lowered yourself to the level of troll. Your arguments are consistently beaten and you fail to address that so now you are just getting angry and disruptive. So piss off and sulk, you say nothing of worth and you don't question your position or respond to facts.
>Go search news.bbc.co.uk for literally thousands of examples of cases that either benefitted or rested solely on CCTV footage.
The reports and experts I have already listed disprove that propaganda. You respond with more of the same propaganda. Well done.
>Time you grew up and joined the real and very complex world Danny, before you ruin someone's life.
Time you thought about what actions you ever support here and what your contribution is.
Danny
That old chesnut.
05.03.2006 19:27
Sorry, I didn't know this site was designed for neds.
Me lose MY temper? LOL! Argument beaten? LOL! Basically all you have stated is that you don't really give a fuck who gets hurt as a consequence of your actions. But that's okay because you answer to a higher moral authority. Is that you Mr Blair?
One thing I'm never going to support is the anti-social destruction of property that will put others at risk. Be it yours, the police, the BNP, so-called anti-facists, neds or so-called Black Bloc, Whitehall or Al Qaeda.
If you think the BBC stories are propaganda go check them against public records and get back to me with yer Student Union sound bites.
Sulking? Nah, because like every anti-social element you are just a sad little minority that will always be inneffectual.
Go do something constructive, as opposed to destructive. Or stick to battering your Aunt Sally and see who cares at all- except the victims of crime.
M
Keep them doggies trolling
05.03.2006 21:39
The establishment commissioned studies I quote and the security experts I quote ridicule the fluffy BBC articles you link to, which are incidental at best to the arguments. Not only have you not won any argument, you don't even seem to recognise the issues and you certainly don't have any respect for libertarian values. Curious.
I really thought the idea of enforced police cameras in citizens houses would shock any one. Even Blair and Thatcher never went that far - even Hitler and Stalin never went that far. In fact I can't find anyone anywhere on the intenet quoting in support of the Houston police chief, except M. So what why would the someone like M, anti-libertarian to the core, post Blairite CCTV propaganda here other than to draw attention to themselves ?
And then I look back at M's other posts - always backing the government line on any subject, always criticising activists posts disruptively, never once can I find a link to any action they supported let alone attended. So, a fool, a troll and a shill. I won't bother reading his nonsense anymore let alone responding to it.
Danny
United Kingdom
05.03.2006 22:53
Is voting an idea? Surely if everyone who was disgusted with the recent developments voted, we'd have a different government. I'm not saying hand over your brains to anyone, but as well as whatever action or protest, why not vote for the lesser of three evils (or my fave, the forth party). Maybe the cameras can be taken away?
I hope I won't incur furious wrath for this post, I'm not getting paid for it...
tim
One for the road.
05.03.2006 23:46
Well maybe you should do some voluntary work for Victim Support with victims of domestic abuse and hopefully learn not to be so dismissive of the suffering of others? Or will you just quote factional dogms at them?
If being libertarian means letting every nutcase on the planet run riot unchecked then count me out. But it thankfully doesn't- at least in the heads of most reasonable people.
"And then I look back at M's other posts - always backing the government line on any subject, always criticising activists posts disruptively, never once can I find a link to any action they supported let alone attended. So, a fool, a troll and a shill. I won't bother reading his nonsense anymore let alone responding to it."
Hahahaha! Sad attempt Danny. It's the old you aren't with us so you must be part of my enemy paradigm. Just because I can tell an SAS recon mission from a "false flag" and you can't doesn't make me a shill- just better informed. Just because I know how to composit images doesn't make me a spy- just skilled in the field. Just because I have no double standards regarding dehumanisation doesn't make me a fa[s]cist.
You'll note that 99% of posts go uncommented by me here. Have browse and just guage it by thumb. In the spirit of free speech & direct democracy, I engage and contribute where I feel I have something to add.
Why do I argue with tosspots? Well I actualy think IMC is something worth engaging with and the thought of people who are halfway intelligent (as most are) coming here and reading some of the nonsense that gets posted here and seeing it unchallenged frankly appalls me.
You don't like a heterogenous universe: go set up a forum and become site admin. I'll even turn up so you can ban me- it'd be an honour.
M
M = Big Brother
06.03.2006 15:45
You are a foolish liar - I argued the exact opposite of what you claim I argued. Of course I expect you knew that - that's the secret of good trolling isn't it, posting obviously false accusations without any evidence or links or argument ? It did make me change my mind about not responding to you, I'll be identifying you as a Big Brother troll whenever you post from now on and linking to here as proof.
>Just because I have no double standards regarding dehumanisation doesn't make me a fa[s]cist.
Wanting police CCTV cameras in everyones home and everywhere in the country does. And pretending arguing for Big Brother is a worthy solution to domestic abuse is morally repugnant exploitation and misrepresentation.
>I engage and contribute where I feel I have something to add.
So, you've never been on a protest or action, you've never contributed any articles yourself and you've never criticised the goverment. And yet you think you have something to contribute here ? By the way, calling yourself intelligent without supporting evidence is simply deluded egotism.
Danny
Promises. promises!
06.03.2006 17:23
"So, you've never been on a protest or action, you've never contributed any articles yourself and you've never criticised the goverment. And yet you think you have something to contribute here ?"
Silly boy!
"It did make me change my mind about not responding to you, I'll be identifying you as a Big Brother troll whenever you post from now on and linking to here as proof."
Just the thought of your inexorable and cruel hounding has me wetting the bed already. Would begging for forgiveness appeal to your famous humanity and spare me humiliating crushing under the might of your much-demonstrated wit?
My own personal trot- how quaint.
See you in some other thread posting on-topic- if you aren't too busy putting the general public in danger- since you have derailed this one into a personal attack. Angry? Sulking? Losing the arguement again?
PS- I formally register my utter disapproval of HM Gvt. There's one of your arguements shot down in flames already.
M
tim,
06.03.2006 20:03
No wrath tim, but I disagree with the voting strategy. politicians say whatever they need to get elected and then do what they like when they're in. The closer parties get to power, the more alike they become. If you like, think 'the one ring' in lord of the rings, all that powers so tempting but it can't be used for good - it uses you. It has to be destroyed.
Theres an interesting report out recently (
So we gotta get organised ... dissillusionment in official politics is rife, its just whether we can create some kind of libertarian polity before big brother moves out of the ghetto trials and goes mainstream.
Its up to us, which is both terrifying and empowering. No-one else can do this on our behalf, thats how we got into this mess.
(A)
"if voting changed anything it would be made illegal"
07.03.2006 00:18
No, thinking about political issues simplified to electoral PR slogans momentarily once every four or five years is what earned us constant surveillance under this police state. Direct action is an idea.
>Maybe the cameras can be taken away?
It is down to you to physically remove them. I have already suggested my best idea to achieve this - strike at the root of the problem.
>I hope I won't incur furious wrath for this post, I'm not getting paid for it...
Unlike some I could mention. Getting involved in a dog-fight only gets you bitten, but my bark is worse than my bite. I hope my bluster didn't put you off contributing what you think.
Danny
community camcorder surveillance
08.03.2006 00:02
We live in a vdangerous society,many people & their families spend most of their lives in poor drug ridden areas & CCTV in the hands of people can help, on the roughest road in Forest Fields, there is large v.hardworking gypsy family that stands up to the crackdealers,rude boys & nasties, they have 2 cameras on their house.
In my experience CCTV in many Lenton flats & other residential areas is connected to local council security & is very often used to benefit residents, not image scanning equipment connected to central government.
Surveillance via camcorder needs to be in the hands of the community & the cameras turned on the arms dealers, warmongers & capitalists who murder millions as well as the budding warmongers & crackdealers on our streets
Viva revolution!
little brother
a decentered system ...
08.03.2006 06:44
(A)
Serious spaceman!
08.03.2006 08:51
Serious subject, funny spaceman, ace pics - I mean, really nice pictures there - good study :)
PS... Of course some CCTV is gonna help convict some violent loons and make some apartment block lifts safer. So too would employing 50% of the population as robot police to always accompany the other 50%, film them and make sure they do nothing wrong. I'm not being silly, it's a balance isn't it.
watch it mister...
intent
08.03.2006 09:08
The trouble is the UK sells more covert cameras than anywhere else ( on top of the 4.2 million state cameras ) and I think it is important to realise that few of these will be for legitimate reasons - in general they are used by dirty old men spying on women or by employers routinely spying on employees, which is why they come pre-built into mirrors, clocks etc. The lens of a spy camera is so small as to be undetectable, although if used wirelessly the signal itself can be detected, often on the standard 2.4Ghz. Some expensive scanners even come with screens to show transmission streams, and I had the use of one for a week and walked around town with it. I wasn't skilled enough to identify which buildings the sources were coming from, but most of the streams I found seemed to bathrooms and bedrooms.
The average lens size is bigger than a . but smaller than an o
Danny
watch it mister...
08.03.2006 15:28
Couldn't've put it better myself. Could you edit my posts for me? The Sociology diploma student that currently does the job has been smoking too much soapbar.
CCTV in itself isn't evil. It's what is done with it for what reason and by whom. Again, if anyone tried to sabotage ours I'd be at the end of a long line of people looking to lynch the vandals... I, of course, would be calling for calm.
PS- Thanks for the new name Danny!
M= Big Brother
Correction
08.03.2006 16:09
should read "Police CCTV in your home isn't evil. It's what is done with it for what reason and by whom"
Much like gas-chambers aren't evil, nuclear weapons aren't evil, electric chairs aren't evil...
M = asturbator
Possible strategy
08.03.2006 18:54
They've recently announced they're going to put a string of CCTV cameras in a residential area with the usual crime prevention, in a public area so no loss of privacy, nothing to hide nothing to fear arguments. As it's quite obvious that they are going to go ahead with the scheme no matter what, I thought, why not say to them, "OK, if you are going to do it, stream all the cameras on the internet. You can watch us anyway, the only difference will be that we can see what you're looking at, so if YOU'VE got nothing to hide YOU'VE got nothing to fear. If you do this it will allow the community to monitor the area rather than just relying on you."
I don't think there's any chance of them agreeing to it, but if they refuse, it would hopefully cause people to question why and possibly rethink whether they want constant surveillance.
What do you think, good idea or bad idea?
Thought
Good
08.03.2006 19:51
Danny
danny
08.03.2006 20:05
Here's a direct closed question. Do you belief CCTV should be used to catch and prosecute child and spouse abusers where not enough evidence exists to secure a conviction?
As for the rest of your drivel & name-calling: LMFAO!
M= Big Brother
Good thought
09.03.2006 07:39
little bro
"The revolution will not be televised"
09.03.2006 14:36
I don't agree with cctv but if someone got one inside Downing Street it would probably test my stance to the limit- if anyone should be watched it should be those with the fingers on the button.
RE voting; Great points about, I generally agree, but may still vote for two reasons; I am lucky enough to have a party which represents a lot of my views, and I don't like people doing bad things in my name, so I take every opportunity to voice my rejection of our representatives. Its hard to believe the two main faces of this war will never lose an election. "If voting made any difference it would be made illegal" - wouldn't that be preferable to this illusion?
Liberal polity sounds great- I am not trying to convince anyone to vote who has reached their own decision, its those who ignore it but accept the system. In the 2005 election, Labour virtually ignored environmental issues. Public pressure on media in turn resulted, by the last two weeks, in much better questions on the issue, as well as questions about The War Against Terror etc., which really pissed them off. "Iraq is not an election issue". Er, YES IT IS!
tim
P.S.
09.03.2006 14:38
tim
Possible means of resistance
14.03.2006 20:31
A number of people with black bin liners or sacks position themselves under some cameras in a particular location. Then, at a pre-arranged time, they all shin up the poles (avoiding those spikes could be a problem here) and cover the camera with the bag, taping it over. They could then move along to another spot and do the same. You could, with 10 or so people, put all the cameras in the Market Square out of action in a minute or two (I'm assuming there's less than 10, I may be wrong. If so, maybe 5-10 minutes would do it.)
Now the thing about this is that I don't think it's illegal - it's not criminal damage as we're just taping a bag over it, not vandalising it. They might try something like "littering" but it'd be hard to get that to stick. And any resultant court case could expose the arguments of our right to privacy vs their wish to spy on us all the time. The stunt could be leafletted explaining this, explaining that (like V in V for Vendetta) we're returning people's privacy to them for a short period of time.
Anyone interested?
steve3742
Steve
04.04.2006 14:17
Danny
Changed my mind...
19.06.2006 09:47
N
Surveillance Camera Players
02.02.2007 02:34
SCP typing pool
Homepage:
http://www.notbored.org/the-scp.html