100th UK soldier killed in Iraq: Vigils called UK wide

Jan 31st
Anti-War meeting by various student groups, 9.30pm at the Peacock, 11 Mansfield Road. Read article:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/01/332571.html

Feb 1st
Vigil at the Market Square (5:30pm - 6:30pm) on Wednesday, 1 February. You can also check, or get more information by calling or texting John on 07739 712 432. Read artcle:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/01/332631.html

Previous article on Notts Indymedia:

Stop the War demo at Nottingham's Armed Forces Recruitment Centre
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/01/332270.html

Londoners will be holding a vigil *today* 31/01/06 at 5pm at Parliament Square.

It is sad it has taken so long but 100 is a good round number and well worth celebrating. Thanks to the STC and the SWP for organising the events and give us the opportunity to celebrate. Fantastic news I guess, some element of justice being done. So, over 2,000 dead american soldiers, 100 british and an unaccounted number of military contractors (mercenaries) against the lives of hundreds of thousands of murders Iraqis innocents. Still, better than nothing I guess.

I shall be going to the London one to pay my respects to the 100 brave young men who have given up their lives without complaint, but I swear to god if I see one person waving a Palestinian flag I'm leaving there and then.

Ditto anyone trying to flog me a copy of Socialist Worker. Parasites.

Have you any idea what a glib and crassly stupid comment that is? It is severly to your detriment if you don't. Words fail me, just grow up!

If I meet anyone celebrating then their own family will soon be in mourning too. Stay at home you idiot. Fools like you discourage dissent in the army, and the Military Families Against War have done more to oppose this war than you ever could. The army didn't want this war and protested more strongly against it than they ever have before. Senior military figures warned of the folly of the war beforehand, and are now calling for Blair to be punished. The soldiers who die and are maimed are as much victims of our political masters as the Iraqis.

Funny, I thought we had a volunteer military and that it was plainly obvious to those that sign up what would be expected of them. Hard to think that the tanks, machine guns, bombers and missiles could be for anything other than murder and I don't see how you can excuse the military for the ongoing deaths during the occupation that the Iraqi people certainly didn't ask for. The soldiers that fire mortars into cities, drop cluster bombs on villages are guilty and the fact that a small number of them end up dead is hardly something to be unduly worried about. They choose to sign up and they choose to be trained to kill - now why should we feel sorry for them rather than their victims? I didn't see anyone recruiting the child victims of war and I don't remember a vigil in London for the 100th dead Iraqi, or the 1,000th, or the 10,000th or the 100,000th!!! funny that!
I don't give a shit about our troops, they made their bed and they can die in it!

>now why should we feel sorry for them rather than their victims?

We shouldn't feel sorry for them rather than their victims. It is true some British soldiers have commited war crimes in Iraq, and even being in Iraq itself is a war crime, but that initial war crime is the sole responsibility of the UK parliament. And the soldiers are suffering for the failure of British democracy and the ineffectiveness of the peace movement - getting killed too quickly for their families to be eligible for pensions in many cases. The vast majority of UK soldiers are kids straight out of school, onto the dole and then into a war they are not educated enough to understand, lied to by their media - remember even the 'liberal' press here supported the war.

And since your taxes pay their wages, and since I haven't seen any successful anti-war protest from idiots like you who celebrate death, why shouldn't I blame you more than the soldiers ?

There will be a protest / vigil in Cambridge outside the Guildhall at 6pm on Wednesday February 1st.

Wednesday, 1 February 2006 at 6pm
outside Southampton Civic Centre

 http://www.southamptonstopwar.org.uk

See:  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/southcoast/2006/01/332646.html

What's the difference between an ordinary criminal murderer and a soldier who chooses to fight in the PARAMOUNT CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, AN AGGRESSIVE WAR? The criminal has the GUTS to be evil KNOWING the consequence of his/her evil may well be righteous punishment by society. The soldier is vastly more wicked and cowardly, desiring to suffer NO CONSEQUENCE for his/her acts.

Those so-called members of the British Armed Forces in Iraq are more disgusting and depraved than the very worst criminals within our prisons. This is NOT a matter of opinion. This is a simple matter of fact.

Of course, those that create and control the armies of nations like ours and the US, take advantage of the repugnant evil that lies within some humans. This is the nature of power gained through military threat- always hes been- and always will be. The bully versus the decent person.

The very worst scum Blair can find will attempt to strong arm you to cheer 'our boys', and feel sorry when they, not their innocent victims, are hurt. MAKE YOUR CHOICE. Hitler got his smart, humane, and well educated population to stand behind exactly this outrageous position, and a few years later the German people reaped the consequences of their immoral choice, with the total destruction of most of their cities, and the loss of a large percentage of their population.

Every member of the British Armed Forces is a volunteer. Therefore every member of the British Armed Forces bears DIRECT responsibility for every act of violence carried out in Iraq, every act of rape, every act of torture, every one of the 300,000+ people exterminated there. This is the concept of COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY- the moral and legal consequence of acting with others towards a group purpose.

"stop the war coalition" remembers the names of the dead soldiers for the self-same reason Hitler recalled dead German soldiers. Because by doing so, an attempt is made to bind people to the cause of the soldiers, and prevent them from any moral detachment, or judgement. Cheer the soldier, and you cheer the War the soldier 'fights'. Cheer the War, and you cheer the WARLORD. "stop the war coalition" operates under the control of Blair's agents, and will run psy-op after psy-op to prepare the people of the UK for War with Iran under the guise of objecting to war in Iraq.

Celebrating the deaths of soldiers loses you the moral high ground and drives a wedge between the military and the peace movement, thus prolonging the war and helping kill the innocents you claim to care for. Internal military dissent was at least as responsible for ending Vietnam and great efforts were made by that peace movement to build ties with ordinary soldiers. Your openly hateful and half-thought through agenda only serves Blair. Luckily, I know you aren't part of the peace movement anyway, you are a keyboard warrior at best.

"Funny, I thought we had a volunteer military and that it was plainly obvious to those that sign up what would be expected of them."

Yeah, this is a common opinion, held by people who haven't really met anyone in the armed forces.

When you speak to military people, you'll see that they signed up for fairly honourable reasons - they want to build a better society! Just like the average crass loud mouth on this site. The thing is, they join up to build a better world in the only way they know how, and their goodwill has been insidiously abused by the politicos in this country. To blame the soldier is to shoot yourself in the foot.

It is Tony Blair who has blood on his hands. It is Tony Blair who must be punished.

No More Blood For Oil!
US/UK Troops out of Iraq now!
Weds 1 Feb, 8.00-9.30am, Plas Coch roundabout, Mold Rd, Wrexham.
Bring your banners and placards.

We're meeting in the morning so it's light and our banners can be read. Watch www.wpjf.org.uk for news of more protests.

Brighton Meet War Memorial Old Steine 7pm Wednesday

Bring banners, noise makers, candles

you don't remember the protests, vigils, rallies, coordinated all over britain before and during the iraq war and occupation, in opposition to the destruction of iraq? well now, what a curiosity, because by god there's been a lot.

it's not a crime to be patriotic. youve got to remember that most of these people fighting our infantry are young working class people faced with a different kind of conscription: one where the only alternative is a hard life, with no qualifications, no money, no property.
the soldier's arnt the murderers, the system is. our soldiers are humans just like us, and i think to turn your back and offer no sympathy with the families of those 100 soldiers is very narrow minded. were all just humans.

its very important right now to be campaigning for troop withdrawal. we cant let one more iraqi or foreign soldier loose their life under george bush's political agenda.

i urge you to support the vigils.

I guess the 99th soldier killed has already been superceded, but I find this quote in the Daily Record from his father telling :

"Alan was against the war. He couldn't see the point of it - but he also thought it was his duty to be there and he had no choice."

I'd also like to point out that the official figure of 230 injured soldiers is a government fabrication, far more soldiers have been maimed and disabled.

A quick reminder - it is illegal to attend the memorial in London. It will be considered an "illegal protest" and you can go to jail for 1 year if you organise it. Maya Evans was tried under the "serious organised crime and police act" (socpa) and FOUND GUILTY.

Her Crime?

Reading the names of killed British troops.

If you are in London, the government DOES NOT want you to speak out. If you try to remember the dead, you may well end up in custody.

Blair's government is a very malevolent force. Why haven't more people realised this?

See you in the square.

well done to all the complete tits on this site who have thoroughly discredited the anti-war movement! As for twiglight well enough said really, you don't even have to counter his arguments as what he says is so stupid ANYWAY! Our country's military have been put in an extremly unpleasant situation by Blair and groups like mfaw deserve support. As for comments like 'murdering scum' well I'd love to see whoever said that repeat it to a soldier's face! Typical keyboard commando!

5pm - 6.30
(Wednesday 1st Feb)

Opposite the Railway Station

 http://www.yorkagainstthewar.org.uk/

"Alan was against the war. He couldn't see the point of it - but he also thought it was his duty to be there and he had no choice."

Well, so he know it was wrong but like the coward he was he choose to accept the orders that he knew were wrong rather than face the consequences of desertion. You want me to worry about his death while others like him carry out their murderous orders without question?

As for calling solders scum to their faces, yes I have, at Fairford for example. I wouldn't do it in a pub on a saturday night in Plymouth however as I know how violent these scum have been trained to be and how immune to consequences they think they are.

The only brave soldier is the one who says no!

I notice that mercenaries seem to attract a lot less respect than the armed forces of a nation state.
Funny because (ignoring countries which have national service or military draft) all modern day soldiers (ignoring Jihad soldiers) are soldiers of fortune. They do what they do at least partly for reward - along with mindless patriotism and are little different from the much despised mercenary apart from getting less money.

5.30 PM
Castle Square, Swansea
Nye Bevan Statue, Queen Street

Swindon naming the dead ceremony

6:00 pm at the cenotaph
Regent Circus

"Well, so he know it was wrong but like the coward he was he choose to accept the orders that he knew were wrong rather than face the consequences of desertion. You want me to worry about his death while others like him carry out their murderous orders without question?"

No, I want any protestors at Fairford who ever come across idiots acting like this to beat you up themselves. What is your name bub ? I'm coming down to Bristol soon - fancy meeting up to discuss this face to face ?

"As for calling solders scum to their faces, yes I have, at Fairford for example. I wouldn't do it in a pub on a saturday night in Plymouth however as I know how violent these scum have been trained to be and how immune to consequences they think they are."

You are scared of cowards ? Surely you'd frighten them to death, no ? You are a coward then and unfit to judge anyone elses bravery ? Brave enough to shout abuse at a peace demo but too cowardly to go to Iraq yourself, too cowardly to repeat your abuse without the safety net of a demo around you. Nae empathy, nae guts and nae brains - I've more respect for toilet bacteria.

"The only brave soldier is the one who says no! "

Oh aye, genius !! Well grasped. And how is calling them murderous scum likely to persuade them to oppose the war ? With you burning the bridges we are asking them to cross ? How do you expect any squaddie to contact 'At Ease' or for their families to feel comfortable reattending peace rallies or supporting MFAW when you are calling them muderous scum ? Not too bright are you ? Foolish hypocrites like you contribute most with silence.

If idiots like this aren't stewarded off demos and actions then I suggest beating them up ourselves, I'm certainly going to if I come across such desructive abuse.

Hey Danny,

I guess you think we can persuade stupid ignorant young boys to recognise their unethical murderous role and quit the forces by honoring them as heros....

yeah right

You can honor them and I'll stick to calling them scum.

And why don't you quit all your macho threats - look who's calling who an armchair warrior.

There seems to be an agreement that it is imperative that we encourage (en-courage) young british women and men to refuse the military orders given to them by the government here. Most of the disagreement seems to be over the way we encourage these troops to say "no". With that in mind, perhaps a respect for a diversity of tactics can be brought on to this thread?

With a diversity of tactics, we can perhaps work together on what we really want - the kids to refuse to kill. Let's see what works and go from there. Has anyone got stats on British Refusers?

peace!

Sean,

There are a variety of 'tactics' and activities that unrelated folk have been pursuing to build bridges with the soldiers, and they are all undermined by misplaced verbal abuse.

If you want to do something yourself, first talk to some soldiers if you don't know any. Learn what you can from them and pass information to them. Talk to them like they are the poor kids at the end of your street instead of Nazi stormtroopers and bear in mind few of them are likely to have even heard of independent media let alone Indymedia. Although one older soldier floored me by starting bitchin about the PNAC before I'd even opened my mouth. He was pissed off with the peace movement because he was sure we'd stop the invasion, or else he would've quit. Realise they are constrained by military rules and 'military-justice' is far from just - they are signing away many of the rights we take for granted. Once you understand why people sign up then you can better oppose it.

Encourage any military families you know to attend anti-war demo's before their sons are killed rather than after. I'd bumped into loads of military families at demos and actions before the war, but once the war started those that didn't feel disloyal continuing to protest were driven away but the verbal brigade. The families of the dead soldiers have done more than any other part of the peace movement to end this war so far.

Pass soldiers any books or pirate DVDs or CDs that you think explain why you oppose the war and encourage them to pass stuff on to other soldiers. Encourage them to visit a peace camp if they never have simply for the experience.

There are different ways to save potential recruits, from slipping in anti-war leaflets and obituraries of local dead soldiers at job centres or targetting recruitment offices or all the places that they visit. Put up anti-recruiting posters and graffiti in the same places they recruit from - poor areas with high unemployment for the most part. Following around recruiting teams whenever you see them - you don't even have to be rude to them, just talking and persistently loudly about Iraq is enough to drive most young folk away.

>Has anyone got stats on British Refusers?

Stats aren't released either by the MoD or by the organisations helping. Even the military regulations covering COs are kept secret so if you find them, publish them.

 http://www.atease.org.uk
 http://www.mfaw.org.uk
 http://www.ppu.org.uk
 http://www.refusingtokill.net/

Leading Aircraftsman Mohisin Khan refused on religious grounds and was found guilty last year, I think is going to appeal to the Lords. The court martial of Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith will begin on 15 March in Aldershot I think, he refused due to the illegality of the war. No chance of 'court-support' of course but it would be nice to have some sort of support demo nearby.

Danny, A great response which has shut the world up!

I agree that supporting the refusing troops is the best way to encourage them to stop killing innocents overseas. These web sites you listed are great. Conscientious Objectors are heroes really when you think about it. Saying "you're great! you've got the courage to disobey and that's huge!" is very important.

On the other hand, some people *will* respond to the opposite tactic. Some people will respond more to shouts of "Fucking Baby Killers!"

As different people respond to different inputs at different times in their lives. Knowing people think they are "scum and deserve to die" will certainly touch a nerve in some soldiers... If this soldier who gets upset at being called "scum" then knows there's a support network ready to embrace hir when s/he quits the forces, then we have much better chances of having them eventually refuse.

And the future of the world (as we know it) largely sits in our abilities to encourage soldiers and coppers to refuse the illegal, immoral orders given to them. And that reminds me of another tactic: Some soldiers will respond mostly to knowing the weight of the world depends on their courage to refuse.

>Conscientious Objectors are heroes really when you think about it. Saying "you're great! you've got the courage to disobey and that's huge!" is very important.

Well, I think even the 'murderous scum' poster would agree with that - so I hope they concentrate on supporting existing refuseniks rather than attacking those who haven't taken that huge step. Demo's in support of COs are something we can all agree on but need people who agree to organise them.

>On the other hand, some people *will* respond to the opposite tactic. Some people will respond more to shouts of "Fucking Baby Killers!"

I obviously disagree. I've never had a good reaction from anyone I've ever insulted unfairly ( these men do not wander the streets of Britain killing babies for kicks in their spare time whatever happens in Iraq ). I realise in Vietnam it was a drafted army we were up against, and so easier to dissuade from war, but the tactics that worked then deserve to be tried again.

The 'FTA' crowd (Jane Fonda, Donald Sutherland etc) staged concerts for GIs near US bases. Fonda in particular has been singled out in post-war propaganda as someone the US troops hate for betraying them - but look at the movies and documentaries of that period and you see tens of thousands of enthusiastic servicemen in their audiences.

In the US, the peacemovement is reaching out to soldiers better than in the UK, probably because many 'nam vets are still active in the peacemovement there. I think we need the same here.

I celebrate the death of any pro-war politician - and aim to hasten a few myself - but I don't blame soldiers for not being enlightened enough to treat every order as an insult.

British soldiers haven't killed many of the circa 200,000 Iraqis killed by this war. Tony Blair and his political puppets are directly responsible for every death in Iraq. Prioritise. They have the army, but that doesn't mean much if we have the soldiers - which we will have once we stop alienating them and start working with them.

Incidentally, another British soldier died in Iraq yesterday. More vigils in a couple of weeks when we reach 200 ?

MoD - "It is with deep regret that the Ministry of Defence can confirm that a British soldier from the 9th/12th Lancers, and part of the Basra Rural South Battlegroup, has died in Iraq following a road traffic accident on the evening of February 2, 2006. The accident occurred on the outskirts of Basra City, in Basra province, at 2317hrs local time (2017hrs GMT). The incident is under investigation, but there is no suggestion of hostile involvement. There was one other casualty who has been taken to medical facilities at Shaibah and he is expected to be released from hospital shortly."


By the way, the Army won't take recruits who've been diagnosed with depression over the past 4 years.
If you know a doley kid who has expressed an interest in going to Iraq, try to trick them into signing off onto the sick or conning their doctor for sleeping tablets. A lot of kids like that have enough reasons in their life to be depressed and stressing the short-term benefits (literally) can help keep them from making the mistake of their lives.

In case you haven't heard about GI Special, it's worth a read through the backissues. Slightly different attitudes amongst american soldiers but the sort of thing we should be encouraging here. The new issue came out yesterday on a variety of sites including  http://www.williambowles.info/gispecial/2006/0206/030206/gi_4b2_030206.html

Hey !

It looks like top brass have been reading this thread! Scared of a mass desertion they are making noises about pulling British Troops out.

 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article343401.ece
"Britain could start pulling out of Iraq in May, US general reveals"

It's probably not true, mind, they just say this kind of thing to keep our hopes up so we feel less need to protest and organise - but this is the time when extra organisation could come in vital! Let's up the ante! How do we do this?

"The court martial of Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith will begin on 15 March in Aldershot I think, he refused due to the illegality of the war. No chance of 'court-support' of course but it would be nice to have some sort of support demo nearby."

Danny (or other readers),

I want to help out with this - what details do we have on this. Is there already some support group to get involved with? Is there already a protest planned? Has there been any successful court-martials in the UK over this war? Please let me know any details you have and I will come to Aldershot on March 15th....