Who gives a fuck about the BNP? Apparently not the social centre, dub comes first.
"I would have been cool with the sat, the only problem raised with that was the anit-fascist gig but there's one of them every month and it's not a massive thing, it's in the pilgrim and will be busy anyway I'm sure. Also who gives a f*ck about the bnp? not me, they'll like kids who just want attention. dub and coal mines come first in my book"
So a benefit is already running, and they purposely clash with it, because in their opinion dub is more important than stopping the very real threat in our communities?
Good going, great way to build unity. Great way to let the community down. Great way to negatively impact the fund-raising efforts of both the anti-fascist campaign and the very one you are supposed to be supporting. Great way to lose support.
Comments
Hide the following 15 comments
Community attitudes and relevance of party politics
19.04.2010 06:21
Love and unity.
Skank Antifascist
Do you think?
19.04.2010 08:47
ME
o_O
19.04.2010 10:36
Emma Goldman
Therefore you are?
19.04.2010 11:00
I'm well aware of the "dub communities" (not really a community though, is it?) and I'm a massive fan of the music - but that has nothing to do with this. The reference to coal mining is because the dub night is a benefit for Huntington Lane open-cast protest site, nr telford which is an important issue. One that is too important to split the people available and willing to go to by clashing with the anti-fash gig. Splitting the amount either night makes no sense at all.
Just because the BNP are a "brand" means nothing, the NF/C18, the BPP, the BFF etc are all just "brands" and have caused /continue to cause massive problems for the people exposed to them. You are very correct, parachuting shock troopers in solves nothing, which is why Liverpool Anti-Fascists are trying to build a steady base of local support; the anti-fash benefit nights are part of this. By knowingly clashing with them, the social centre does nothing but disservice to the local community.
Unity is what is being asked for here, Unity and Cooperation. You don't think fascism is a massive problem but coal mining is, fine, organise a benefit on a different night and there is unity (and if it was the other way round, I'd expect the same from the Liverpool anti-fascist group). Purposely clash and those of us who think BOTH issues are important are left to choose who gets our cash - hurting yourselves in the process.
Love and Rage.
Me: Sure, it can be discussed by the parties involved, but it's (relatively) important news for people of the Merseyside/North West and potential members/users of both the social centre and the Liverpool anti-fascists. If we also choose to discuss it, we will, or are we being censored?
@nnoyed
Not all social centres are the same
19.04.2010 11:13
Next To Nowhere can be a force for good, let's not write them off because of a minority of those involved.
@nnoyed
true Anarchist
19.04.2010 12:37
Anarchy = no government
Braz
This article is ludicrous
19.04.2010 14:18
Pointing out the bleeding obvious
Do what?
19.04.2010 15:40
Who here is suggesting we call for the government to ban the BNP? Anti-fascism is a lot more than standing at a demo calling for the government to ban something you don't like. Just ask AFA/Antifa/the 635 group.
{A}
Kids and Goats, who can tell?
19.04.2010 18:06
This has to be seen in the context of the social centre attempting to show a right-wing propaganda-piece (The Soviet Story) a couple of weeks ago. Nothing to do with the usual documentary night organisers (who do a fantastic job) but one centre user who is a conspiracy theorist.
The centre is doing a fantastic job, but there are a few users with very questionable politics, but apparently we aren't supposed to question it.
@nnoyed
wron, wrong, wrong
19.04.2010 18:22
& stir up such strong emotions. it would be funny if it weren't so fuckin tragic, eh?
as the person who is organisin the night, i would love for the author of this 'report' to come down on fri & engage me in conversation. i'll be the one with the baby. i'll explain sarcasm to you & show you how deeply wrong your interpretation has been. same goes for all the other anonymous contributors. i would be at the saturday gig but i don't think the pilgrim allow babies.
feck, was gonna write a lighthearted riposte & explain the egregious misunderstanding but it is painfully apparent that many people have not only had a humour bypass but are livin with their heads so far up their own arse that it would be wasted on them.
but, for the record...
i originally suggested 2 possible dates, fri or sat.
was told that there is an antifash gig on sat so, obviously, said we'd do it on fri.
designed a fetchin poster.
was told that there had been a double bookin. oops. was sent email that contained a JOKE about the bnp. laughed at said JOKE that is the main substance of this 'report'.(& please before anyone gets het up & responds that the bnp is no jokin matter, just don't. you want to discuss it, ntn fri from 9pm. like i say, i'll be the one with the baby.)
lighthearted grumble about booking mix up & concern about lack of support, but hey ho, open cast minin isn't that big a deal anyway, to be honest we're only doin it for the music. (humour alert.)
changed start time from 7 to 9 in order to accomodate double bookin.
redesigned poster, which also had a couple of other mistakes.
listened to some dub.
was told about furore on indymedia.
read above & despaired for the future of the world.
anyhoo, all this aside, it has drew my attention to the fact that i forgot to post on indymedia re the gig.
so, i'll do it now.
hooligan's return
- a benefit night @ N2N -
Friday 23rd April 9-late
Donation on door
Bring & share cake
Free vegan soup - all ingredients skipped from local supermarkets
Drinks - mix of hot & cold beverages
Music - Dave & Joe on the mix
Disinfo - up to date info on Huntington Lane Open Cast protest site, near
Telford plus undercurrents projections
'either we are part of the problem or we are part of the solution'
feistyfingers
The logical fallacy of false dilemma
19.04.2010 19:17
Demonization of the centre? Hardly, I made it clear in the original post: "Some members of the Liverpool Social Forum/Liverpool Social Centre". "Some members of" is quite clear and indeed the very first line!
fesityfingers: It WASN'T a joke, please don't come that. I understand sarcasm fully, but it seems you don't understand false dichotomy: "'either we are part of the problem or we are part of the solution'". That simple, is it? A binary choice?
Maybe educate yourself:
Nice of you to tell use where we can discuss it too. It's your way or the highway? How authoritarian.
Love and Rage.
@nnoyed
sigh
19.04.2010 20:17
i think i waste my time, however,
the only clash has been on the friday. the FRIDAY, not the saturday.
i could show you emails & texts that prove that we were never havin it on sat once i heard about the antifash gig but i don't think it would help.
i could reiterate that it was a joke but i don't think you have a sense of humour.
i could surmise that you're a troll.
to be accused of havin shit politics & bein hierarchical because i believe that you should not anonymously hide behind computer screens whilst slaggin me off. youwhatnow?
you quote out of context & resort to sensationalist headlines & bollocks interpretations.
oh, and the dispute over the film. as far as i'm aware the only issue was in continuing a discussion on an announcements list. not a suppression.
right, too much time wasted on this already.
hope to see you all on saturday.
oops. i mean friday. obviously.
x
feistyfingers
mmm
27.04.2010 07:04
mmm
why dub and coal mines come first - from the one what started it
07.05.2010 17:35
The BNPs biggest failing is their negativity. because of their lack of imagination and creative powers, because they are motivated by fear rather than hope, because they are reactionaries who find it easier to dfine themselves by what they are against - all these things make them useless. This is why they come to our events and bookshop looking for a fight, they don't have their own stuff to hang out at. I think distributing intellgient leaflets about the BNP is a good idea- well done people. We should probably keep an eye on them whenever they get together and start making a noise, so once again well done .
Sometimes I think people go to demos and counter demos without really thinking about. Sometimes a small BNP thing becomes big news because loads of their opponents turn up. This might just make them feel better about themselves. Especially if they are made to feel misunderstood or that no one wants to listen to them. Can you put yourself into the heads of these people? It's not easy, but say you've never really been political before or particularly articulate, you don't trust the mainstream politics, maybe you're not well educated and instinctively mistrust and dislike anyone who comes across as a bit of a smart arse, especially if they seem more upper class than you. Now you get into the anti-imigration thing and start trying to spread your message. What happens? A lot of people tell you to shut up, they call you a racist and a fascist. Maybe you think you're not actually racist, just territorial, maybe you've got issues yourself with fascism, perhaps you're dad was killed by nazis (German national socialists), maybe you believe infreedom of speech alongside the freedom to punch people.
What's the aim in challenging these people? Do you want them to change, do you want to enagage with them? Or frighten them away. Decide on one or the other. A lot of anti-fascist action seems to be stuck in the middle ground. There's also atendency I think amongst these right wingers to hate other people for their weakness and this is why your response needs to be thought out - chanting simplistic insults could be construed as a sign of weakness.
If I say 'I don't care about the BNP' what I'd be saying is I don;t respect them as adverseries. I don't want to give them any of my time. That might change if they get more violent or keep hassling the bookshop (but that in itself would only prove how useless they are) . I choose to concentrate on other things knowing that the anti-fasc gang is pretty strong in this city. Mostly I try to do positive things, to make good things happen rather than stop bad things happening. My main exception is environmental stuff because I have afear that the only planet I know or can get to is going to die before I reach old age, so I am involved in the anti-fossil fuel movement.
This is my main point though:
My main problem with the anti-fascist groups is not their tactics but their targets. THE MAIN FASCIST THREAT COMES FROM THE STATE ie; the people with the guns and surveillance systems. This is real, it affects all of us everyday, their rules have become internalised, we are afraid of going to jail. I stop at red lights when there's no other traffic and no one watching, I don't try set fire to banks whenever I come across one (as any real free human would presumably do) . In work I subject myself to a humiliating culture of health and safety related mistrust and form filling. The groundwork for a truely fascist state has already been laid and any of the big political parties could be the figure heads. The BNP probably wouldn;'t get away with it because we'd see them coming and they are outsiders - they wouldn't get the support of the business world.
Finally, the best anti-fascist weapon is the courage to be yourself and say whatevers on your mind and to break rank. That's why I'm not sorry for saying that thing and why I mistrust people whose responses are too predictable. Even if I didn't totally mean it it's what i felt at that moment.
thanks - dave.
Dave
BNP?
13.12.2010 12:43
dub lover