Merseyside Police Versus Freedom Of Speech

??guess they have been released, after having dna etc stolen

Exactly so.

A commenter on this post:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/liverpool/2008/10/410407.html
...reported being given a fixed penalty notice for 'alarm, harassment and distress', which she's thinking of refusing (ie forcing them to either drop it or go to court).

Before I get started on explaining why I chose this title, let me just say that what I am about to write has absolutely nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with your beliefs. In some cases I would probably agree as I do believe that some good points and arguments are made, and that people are allowed freedom of speech.

The reason I chose that title is because as much as everyone on this site has said that people were arrested for no reason ... or what seems to a lot of you to be stupid reasons, and I think that comments were also made that suggested the police "over reacted", and that they were the ones who caused the disturbances.

But do you not realise that the people who were setting up the stalls were in fact breaking the law. The police officers, including PC Wilson - who I think was referred to as "clearly a man with issues", were all merely doing there job, they get paid to ensure that people abide by the law. The severity of the law being broken in no way makes the slightest bit of difference. I mean its all pretty simple really isn’t it ... You break the law.... You face the consequences, whether that is a caution, a fine or imprisonment.

I don’t understand why you give the police so much hassle or why you are so anti-police.

Let me put it a different way, as this is the way it seems from my point of view. If someone broke into your house and stole your belongings, I am presuming you would ring the police? If that’s so, then that to me shows that the police are good enough for you when you need them and when someone has committed an offence against you, but when you are the one committing the offence its completely different. I’m sorry but to me that doesn’t sound quite right, doesn’t quite add up.
I don’t know if it’s just me but that all sounds a bit too contradictive.

By all means hand leaflets out and try and make people aware of all your different campaigns and try and get support, but there are ways of doing that without breaking the law. If you want to set up a stall then you can get permission from the local council, take the document proving this with you when you set the stall up. Yes the police will come over but once you show them the document confirming that you have permission to be there then the police will leave you alone.

You make out as if the police have some personal vendetta against you all, this might come as a shock to some of you but they don’t. All they are doing is their job. If you don’t break the law they won’t arrest you or pack up your stuff and tell you to move. Its simple, you expect the police to arrest thieves, murderers, paedophiles and vandalisms. What makes you think that you are exempt from abiding to the law?

You don't specify what law you believe the upstanding officers were doing their job to enforce?

More about stalls and the rights to campaign in public places:-
 http://forum.no2id.net/viewtopic.php?t=14904
 http://forum.no2id.net/viewtopic.php?t=14004

Unless i am mistaken, if a police officer asks you to move your stall then there is obviously a reason for it. Correct? Their job is to enforce the law so they're not going to break it are they?
So, therefore if you are asked to move on and you refuse, that is an arrestable offence.
From what i know of what went on that day there were quite a few tables, and in my eyes they had reason to move them all on.
If you show no respect for the police then they are not going to show any tollerance are they ?

I'm afraid the reason for the threads above, and many others is that the police do ask you to move on when they don't actually have any legal basis for doing so. Perhaps if you have never been in the situation you don't understand, but don't just assume because a police officer asks people to do something it is because s/he is actually doing something related to the law.

I totally agree with Campaigner, the police seem to make up laws as the go along!
Myself and a friend held a stall in London, we did everything to make sure we were abiding by the law before we set up and all we did was hand out anti vivisection information. Around an hour after setting up 3 police officers turned up and they were very aggressive, we were asked for our contact info (which stupidly we gave) and told us that if we didn't pack our stall away we would be arrested!!! We did infact pack away our stall, although we weren't happy about it.... this didn't stop us receiving court summons for which we were found guilty! As we knew we had done NOTHING at all wrong we appealed and it went to crown court, the judge over threw the guilty verdict and really gave the police (who lied under oath) a public ticking off.

So Katherine hasn't a clue what she's talking about!

The police DO NOT GIVE A TOSS about even a million people shouting something. People need to act - get in the way of the police, link hands like they do during riots, or, if necessary, physically defend those whom the police are attacking.

I can't remember the name of the protests, but when the police tried to stop a protest for gay rights many years ago, the protestors ran off - only to run around the block and appear behind the cops.

How does somebody (who was not involved in this episode) support your complaint?

To find out about more police repression of innocent protesters see this link on Indymedia which also has good info on how to make a complaint  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/11/412849.html?c=on#c207313
PS Katherine, are you a cop? You sure have never protested or tried to use your human rights have you? There is nothing illegla about setting up a stall so long as you are not blocking the highway. Haven't the police, in a city that has innocent children being shot, got anything better to do with their time???

I took the above photographs, I find it a cheek that Katherine has downloaded them to her computer, then reposted them and retitled them. I was obviously there on the day, I've seen how Merseyside police behave -or rather how they over react- regularly towards peaceful protests, even peaceful gatherings in the past 3/4 years, ever since Hogan-Howe became chief constable. Illegally threatening protesters with arrest for not giving our names and addresses, when we've clearly not committed or about to commit any sort of crime.

If you want to sympathise with the police, that's your choice, but those who've complained in public are just the tip of the iceberg. Day in and day out Merseyside police pursuing a so called 'zero tolerance' policy towards the general public have stopped people legally going about our business, physically dragging a driver out of their cars, merely because of what they choose to wear wasn't acceptable to a police office. I know of a case where the police have stopped a driver for over taking cars at the legal speed limit.

If you want to sympathise with a police force that have clearly been shown here denying the people of Liverpool our fundamental human rights then one you'll get a wake up call and maybe you'll realise who was right on this occasion and who wasn't.

Just read how Merseyside police treat one of their own, a woman too.

 http://www.catalystmedia.org.uk/issues/nerve3/name_of_law.htm

Photos above are (C) 2008 Kai Andersen