9/11, 7/7, false flag state sponsored terrorism, fake terrorist alerts, centralisation and the destruction of liberty, the creation of totalitarian power blocs around the world - EU and more - ID and Big Brother, creation of faked situations to justify attacking nations - Iran and the captured sailors
Seeing through it all?
Pissed off with the discrete single issue pressure groups' ineffectuality?
Want to strike at the root?
Try this group. Take part in this initial effort to create something new amongst our currently discredited reality
First Truth Leeds meeting. 02.03.07 @ The Cardigan Centre, 145-149 Cardigan Road, Leeds, LS6 1LJ. 7:30pm till 9:00.
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Be aware of these 9/11 conspirators.
03.04.2007 10:49
If this advert interests you I advise you to do a little background reading and thinking.
'truth'
Very Dangerous Ideas
03.04.2007 13:25
This site has a collection of article on the "War on Terror":
And it includes a feature article on 9/11:
Of course there is disinfo around 9/11, for example Shayler pushing "no planes" theories and there are worse examples... It takes some time to sift the disinfo from the reality. A good place to start researching this aspect of the 9/11 Truth Movement are the 4 audio shows here:
For a broad perspective on the Empire see this series of recordings:
run for the hills
Monbiot is a "Truther"!
03.04.2007 13:36
Well then, Mr. Monbiot has just validated our main point: We need a truly independent investigation of September 11th, because crimes were committed by the administration and they were allowed to cover them up.
How ironic that a scatterbrained hit piece about Loose Change would lead to an admission of the glaring criminal negligence that -- at the least -- allowed the attacks of September 11th 2001 to occur.
Crimes of the State
Homepage:
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2007/03/911-truth-has-already-won-debate.html
What about the truth on climate change?
04.04.2007 10:32
The 'truthers' will claim they are beyond left or right but of course that is the cry of every neo-nazi and right wing populist group of the 1980's onwards and was in fact the main slogan of the Third position neo-nazi group that Nick Griffin lead proir to heading the BNP.
Right wing paranoid cult
9/11, cults and the far right
04.04.2007 10:59
Some 9/11 truth groups have got crazies involved, this is true and this appears to be something that is being encouraged to put people off, but part of the blame here lies with the left for ignoring this issue.
There are people on the left who have questioned the official story of 9/11, for example:
Michel Chossudovsky
Ralph Schoenman and Mya Shone
Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed
Nafeez is from the UK and his book is promoted by the likes of the Campaign Against Criminalising Communities - see the link to his book, The War on Truth : Disinformation and the Anatomy of Terrorism on the front page of their site:
There is a good audio recording of Nafeez speaking here in which, near the end, he makes some valid points about the 9/11 Truth Movement:
"Right wing paranoid cult", by supporting the US governments, totally discredited, fable about what happened on 9/11 and saying that only far right crazies are questioning it you are not helping -- because this isn't true.
run for the hills
ALL conspiracism is right wing
04.04.2007 13:22
Conspiracism as a world view is a form of right wing populism.
Here's a definition:
Conspiracism is a narrative form of scapegoating that portrays an enemy as part of a vast insidious plot against the common good. Conspiracism assigns tiny cabals of evildoers a superhuman power to control events, frames social conflict as part of a transcendent struggle between Good and Evil, and makes leaps of logic, such as guilt by association, in analyzing evidence. Conspiracists often employ common fallacies of logic in analyzing factual evidence to assert connections, causality, and intent that are frequently unlikely or nonexistent. As a distinct narrative form of scapegoating, conspiracism uses demonization to justify constructing the scapegoats as wholly evil while reconstructing the scapegoater as a hero.
Of course you could more or less fit George Bush's worldview into that structure and it is the structure of right wing thought generally.
Populism avoids an analysis of how power works systemically. It's always some group who are corrupting the system, which would otherwise be ok. This group could be neo-cons, Lizards, Jews...
So the problem isn't the need to reveal some pretend hidden truth to the ignorant masses. Most people know the world is fucked up but don't know how to act to sort it out and have lost belief in their power to do so. That is the real task and it is made much harder by having real politics mixed up with people whose politics are like the plot of a bad B movie. The reason Hollywood loves conspiracy plots so much is that they are neat and involve the slow unfolding of a preordained story. Real life isn’t like that. It’s complicated and is contingent.
But of course supporting Bush or adopting a conspiracist world view aren't the only two options. The whole world knows that the neo-cons took advantage of the fact of 9/11 to try and restructure the world. In the main they failed but unfortunately the new post-unilateral forms of power aren't going to be much nicer. Still it's against this multilateralism that we now have to struggle. One of struggles ahead is to stop capital and governments taking advantage of the facts of climate change to push the costs of it on to us. Once again the conspiracist cults will be on the wrong side.
Right wing paranoid cult
But the problem with Chip Berlet and co...
04.04.2007 13:42
What goes wrong here is that some people are not put off by the outlook of the likes of Berlet, they looking into things like the collapse of WTC7,
They are then faced with, as you say, many right wingers who appear to them to be telling the truth more effectively than the left who are fully behind Bush's version of events -- this is a big problem.
"It's always some group who are corrupting the system, which would otherwise be ok. This group could be neo-cons, Lizards, Jews..."
Yes the likes of Alex Jones see the world this way, but that can't be said of Ralph Schoenman can it -- he is a revolutionary socialist, with a very long history of activism and opposition to capitalism. You can see that 9/11 was some kind of an inside job and still be an anti-capitalist, these things are not mutally exclusive.
run for the hills
Right wing paranoid cults
04.04.2007 15:00
Anti-capitalism gives you an entirely different focus and world view and brings you into line with social movements containing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people from across the world who are in broad agreement on how the world works. Your conspiracist world view is fundamentally outside it.
There is of course a danger for some of soft anti-capitalism falling into conspiracism, what some have called arrested radicalism. The idea that capitalism is what multi-national corporations or bankers do. This can lead to seeing the problem as being the G8 meeting and conspiring to carve up the world but of course the problem is much more fundamental; they and we act in the interests of capital as though it were a natural thing.
‘Capital’ is not something ‘out there’, something that we can fight against as if it were external to us and part of someone or something else—even if we sometimes talk about it as if it is. ‘Capital’ is not a person or group of people, nor an organisation or group of organisations. It’s not the sum total of ‘capitalists’ or ‘capitalist enterprises’. Capital is a social relation mediated through commodities. Capital is the way we live, the way we reproduce ourselves and our world—the organisation of the ‘present state of things’ as they are today.
That is of course a much more difficult thing to confront than a small cabal that secretly controls the world. It is an unsettling fact that noone is in charge. Conspiracism is a conservative, naieve reaction that wants someone, somewhere to be in charge, even if it's the bad guys.
In fact conspiracies only ever have the smallest effect on the world and large social movements, not tiny cults, are the only ones that can change things.
If you reply to this please say if you believe man made climate change is a hoax perpertrated by 'them'.
What you focus on is determined by your wordview.
Sigh... here we go, round in circles again...
04.04.2007 15:30
If you are who I think you are then last time we met I didn't think 9/11 was an inside job, I believed the official story, so your argument here just doesn't apply.
Would you like to try to convince me that WTC7 wasn't brought down via a controlled demolition?
I'm sure we have had this debate before, with you using the same snippets of text to make your argument, if I find time I'll read the article you are quoting from:
Anti-Capitalist Movements
Oh and while we are at it, perhaps you would like to read these articles that were also written by an anti-capitalist in the post-Genoa / post-9/11 period:
After Genoa: Reform or Revolution
9/11: A Desperate Provocation by U.S. Capitalism
9/11 in Context: Plans and Counter Plans
run for the hills