LBIA & Vivisection Exports

As part of new tactics to stop foreign animal exports by B&K Universal, NARN contacted Leeds Bradford International Airport before Christmas asking for a policy refusing imports and exports of live animals for vivisection. They didn't get back to us, so yesterday we asked people to contact the airport and voice disgust. Local press also showed interest and are covering the campaign's new year tactics. This afternoon, NARN received the following statement from LBIA:

"I can confirm that Leeds Bradford International Airport (LBIA) does not have any future plans to be involved in the export or import of live animals for vivisection through LBIA.
Yours Sincerely
[Name Removed]
Finance & Commercial Director"

Let's see some proof that the airport is supporting import/export of animals for vivisection, have you got any?

Didn't think so......

Well done in getting the commitment!!

Hey Z you give up proo6f that they are not doing as they say and then we can challenge them with their own statement

Croltbopper, a campaign is asking people to support them on a blind issue and unless you provide solid proof how do you expect people to offer their support?

We see other campaigns offering evidence that companies are involved in supporting the vivisection industry so where is the proof that this airport is import/exporting animals for vivisection?

It isn't upto me to prove anything, it is upto you to gather support by making a case and you haven't done that.....

Do you think by you asking me to provide proof they are not involved in the trade it is going to boost support for this campaign?

Put your money where your mouth is I say and provide solid evidence before your go off half cocked!

It's not wholly relevant whether they do or don't export animals for vivisection. The point is i suspect to have proof that they do not and in future will not be a conduit for the vivisection trade, whether or not they currently engage in such an activity. It is likely that there is evidence about to trigger such a campaign but the sources of such information are probably protected. Animals are exported through various ports for the vivisection trade. It is logical to campaign in order to raise awareness that ports are involved in the vivisection trade and thus in the massive human and animal suffering that then results.

"It's not wholly relevant whether they do or don't export animals for vivisection. The point is i suspect to have proof that they do not and in future will not be a conduit for the vivisection trade, whether or not they currently engage in such an activity. It is likely that there is evidence about to trigger such a campaign but the sources of such information are probably protected. Animals are exported through various ports for the vivisection trade. It is logical to campaign in order to raise awareness that ports are involved in the vivisection trade and thus in the massive human and animal suffering that then results."

It is relevent if you are asking people to contact a company accusing them of import/exporting animals for B&K as the sample letter suggests... You can't go around targeting companies unless they are involved in the industry expecting them just to confirm that they are not involved. Asking people to demonstrate outside the airport and contact through email and phone in these circumstances is wrong and counter productive. You should first produce evidence that they have a connection produce it to show people that the company is earning money from this unethical trade. If you target a company because you can't find evidence and are stabbing in the dark wanting them to confirm they are not then you are going about it in the wrong way, it turns people against the cause.

Yes some ports and airports do import/export animals for vivisection and awareness is very important but it is more important to get you fact right and target the correct companies, confront them with the evidence and not expect them to prove a negative!

I will not be offering my support to this campaign group because of the tone that comes out from their web site. It is plain to see from the articles that this group support illegal acts of criminal damage and intimidation of other and their property. You don't have to look very far to see that NARN campaigners are upto their neck in trouble with the law!

This sort of campaign group on set back the AR cause and we could do without them!

'Z' is Gerry Bantin of B&K? .. A wild guess folks!

If not, he/she may be some other apologist lackey for the animal torture industry.

Keep on FIGHTING for Animal/Human Rights!

"'Z' is Gerry Bantin of B&K? .. A wild guess folks!

If not, he/she may be some other apologist lackey for the animal torture industry.

Keep on FIGHTING for Animal/Human Rights!"


Hardly an apologist since I find the use of animals unethical but I have a right to question extremism within a movement I am a part of. Extremism within the movement is misguided and only sets back the causes. If anything you help the industry by supporting extremism!

You are very much in the minority and the sooner the police and government lock the extremists up the better.... You do not hold a monopoly on the animal rights movement.

I fail to see how you can support violence and intimidation tactics and claim to fight for human rights. What about the rights of people who are targeted with bombs placed on their door steps and under their cars? It is hypocracy to claim you are fighting for the rights of animals yet you walk all over humans rights!

Throwing bricks through old ladies windows, sending death threats to their family and causing criminal damage has no place in the animal rights movement and I suspect it is this that is keeping anti-vivi scientists out of the loop.

You distance yourself from the public by you crass and selfish actions that are ill thought out and cause more harm than good.

Longer prison sentence is what we need to take these extremist morons off the streets. They are all cowards.

I am an animal rights activist by the way and I am ashamed of these actions and the people who support them.

So therefor if an airport or port is likely to have involvement in the vivisection industry it is wrong to ask them for a policy? I think your tactics and logic are somewhat non-existant 'Z'. Seems you are too stuck up your own arse to accept anything past your theoretical box of BUAVness. Get back to your MP and leave others to do what is effective, not what is not.

If you knew what you were on about, you'd know that people do not have to break the law to be on criminal charges. Loads of different campaigns have got people on charges for simply demonstrating - SHAC, SPEAK, NARN, SSAT....

As long as the government and those fooled by their lies continue demonising AR activists as criminals, new laws will be brought in to stop what is legitimate - welcome to Labour.

Should we all rejoice when all the nasty "extremists" are banged up and get back to lobbying our MP's like good boys and girls?

Shame on you.

Don't denounce those that risk their freedom for that of other species.

"So therefor if an airport or port is likely to have involvement in the vivisection industry it is wrong to ask them for a policy? I think your tactics and logic are somewhat non-existant 'Z'. Seems you are too stuck up your own arse to accept anything past your theoretical box of BUAVness. Get back to your MP and leave others to do what is effective, not what is not.

If you knew what you were on about, you'd know that people do not have to break the law to be on criminal charges. Loads of different campaigns have got people on charges for simply demonstrating - SHAC, SPEAK, NARN, SSAT....

As long as the government and those fooled by their lies continue demonising AR activists as criminals, new laws will be brought in to stop what is legitimate - welcome to Labour."

This has gone far beyond asking a company if they have a policy on import/export of animals for vivisection and the sample letter implies they are dealing with B&K without solid evidence. You can't go around exerting pressure on companies because you think they are going to or are doing trade in animals for vivisection and expect other activist to support you if you offer no evidence!

My theoretical box? You assume I have not spent time in the thick of it and assume I spend my time writing letters to MPs and not on the front line so to speak. My logic is the same logic campaign groups such as SPEAK and SHAC adopt as part of their campaign tactics. That is to make sure you do your leg work and get things right before going off half cocked!

Just demonstrating? I have seen how these demonstrations work and they are far from "just demonstrating" and are part of a wider campaign of intimidation. It's because of these intimadation tactics we have new laws directed towards this form of disruption.

The last SHAC activists charged pled guilty for trying to drag an old lady and her grandson out of their car because they had a hunt sticker displayed in the window two of them SHAC founders. The latest SHAC extremists have just pled guilty to intimidating many companies who delt with HLS and SPEAK activists broke a section 14 order, some sat and blocked the road off, hardly "just demonstrating" is it?

You fail to mention the Newchurch campaign where people suffered 6 years of violence and intimidation ranging from death threats to criminal damage, petrol bombing and grave robbery. And the SPEAK campaign caused a builders to pull out after a campaign of intimidation threats and arson. SHAC have the same track record but their supporters like to set fire to peoples homes and leave bombs under their cars. I fail to see how you can justify this sort of mentality and think it is productive.

Welcome to grass roots campaigns who are destroying the animal rights movement and turning opinion against the cause!

"Welcome to grass roots campaigns who are destroying the animal rights movement and turning opinion against the cause!"

If you could think logically you would obviously realize that you are regurgitating the government lies. Firstly, the public are for the animal rights movement. Have you ever done a stall, gone on a demo etc and spoke to the public? They are now, more than ever, supporting the AR movement and opposing vivisection amongst other abuses.

The grassroots AR movement isn't willing to go down the same path as PETA, BUAV and NAVS and become more wrapped up in welfaristic ideas, money and lobbying politicians as has happened for, hmm, 3 decades. The grassroots AR movement is about action, not words. What was the last breeder or lab the BUAV closed down? Wow, they exposed Harlan Sprague Dawley in '01 but failed to start a campaign to close them down. They exposed Nafovanny and did sweet f/a about them!

Grassroots campaigns have resulted in the closure of dozens of breeders in the UK and the industry is now in the state that animal supply relies upon foreign companies and markets. B&K, Harlan and Charles River are the only 3 left in the country breeding, yet they cannot breed every animal the 500+ labs in the UK need. As is said on he above link to NARN, these surviving firms rely heavily upon the foreign markets. So what better way to stop these companies and labs than.....asking airports and ports for policies stopping laboratory animal imports and exports! Thus it will cut off the foreign market,

Look at the bigger picture mate, it may help your unsophisticated views.

"If you could think logically you would obviously realize that you are regurgitating the government lies. Firstly, the public are for the animal rights movement. Have you ever done a stall, gone on a demo etc and spoke to the public? They are now, more than ever, supporting the AR movement and opposing vivisection amongst other abuses.

The grassroots AR movement isn't willing to go down the same path as PETA, BUAV and NAVS and become more wrapped up in welfaristic ideas, money and lobbying politicians as has happened for, hmm, 3 decades. The grassroots AR movement is about action, not words. What was the last breeder or lab the BUAV closed down? Wow, they exposed Harlan Sprague Dawley in '01 but failed to start a campaign to close them down. They exposed Nafovanny and did sweet f/a about them!

Grassroots campaigns have resulted in the closure of dozens of breeders in the UK and the industry is now in the state that animal supply relies upon foreign companies and markets. B&K, Harlan and Charles River are the only 3 left in the country breeding, yet they cannot breed every animal the 500+ labs in the UK need. As is said on he above link to NARN, these surviving firms rely heavily upon the foreign markets. So what better way to stop these companies and labs than.....asking airports and ports for policies stopping laboratory animal imports and exports! Thus it will cut off the foreign market,

Look at the bigger picture mate, it may help your unsophisticated views."

If you could think logically you would realize that you are regurgitating unsupported clap trap. Firstly, evidence doesn't suggest that the public are for the animal rights movement and I would like to prove your claim because I haven't seen that opinion poll. Yes I have and do help out on street stalls and attend demonstrations. What has street stalls got to do with public opinion? Is it your logical thinking that suggests street stalls are a gauge for public opinion? BNP street stalls attract and meeting attract support so by your logic most of the public are racist? Many, many more people walk past the stalls than people who stop and that to me suggest more people are not interested either way...

I have also walked away from animal rights street stalls because activist when questioned start shouting and abusing, it happens often. Animal rights activist are not approachable if you are not all for their cause and that is a very bad thing.

Opinion polls have always weighed more on the side of vivisection so I fail to see where you are getting all this false info from. It would be better if you started quoting fact rather than fiction because you only make yourself look stupid.

The vast majority of the public is against cruelty to animals and is wealfarists not rightists, you only have to visit your local supermarket to see this. If you listed every life saving medical drugs/procedures that have at some point involved animals and ask the whole country to make a choice between the drug/procedure or the animal, the animal would lose every time, ask Josh Harper! The public are not against vivisection they are against the industry causing unnecessary pain and suffering during the procedures, you only have to read through the polls to see this or visit your local hospital.


"The grassroots AR movement isn't willing to go down the same path as PETA, BUAV and NAVS"
Interesting statement since most of the literature handed out from grassroots AR stalls is from these groups and others... Grassroots campaigns run off the back of mainstream campaigning groups and if you take away all their leaflets what are you left with? Do you think boycotts, letter writing campaigns and demonstrating outside companies are a tactic grassroots campaigns invented? If you dig through the NARN site you will even find articles asking for people to lobby their MP! So, the difference between mainstream groups and grassroots is that grassroots cross the line into violence. You accept that it is right to place bombs outside people’s front doors or under their cars, you accept the harassment and intimidation of old couple and gloat when they have a brick thrown through their window or a petrol bomb left outside their front door. The whole idea of this article is designed to rally support from people who send nasty letters and or emails, you can't kid us with the disclaimer, and it is the nasty stuff you want sent out. This is what you mean by action...

While grassroots campaigns have closed down some breeders, not dozens, it has had done nothing to dint the breeding industry. Managers from Shamrock are still heavy involved in importing primates for the industry so what did the closure of Shamrock farm do? It probably did them a favor, refined their trade and made them more money in the long run. Now Shamrock trade under a different name with the same people calling the shots but they don't have a farm, hardly a closure is it? Newchurch closed down and five new breeders opened up. All you do is push these companies out of reach and don't make a dent on breeding at all!

The vast majority of animals have always come from overseas since it is cheaper and in the case of primates easier to breed. Closing a few breeders didn't change anything it has always been that way..

Yes the industry do rely heavy on imported animals as they always have done but a campaign was started and failed to get support because campaigners are too busy starting up other campaigns instead of supporting the ones already on the go. The Gatway to hell campaign is an example that hasn't been supported and the last update was in June last year. This campaign offered evidence of ports and airports who trade in animals for vivisection not just guess work. You are just mirroring a failed campaign and doing it badly by not offering evidence. Evidence is already out there about all the main players in the import export of animals for vivisection and bigger players than Leeds/Bradford airport an airport you don't even know are import/exporting animals!!

What the grassroots movement needs to do is support each other and stop the violence. SPEAK and SHAC should end their campaigns and the whole movement should concentrate on the import export of animals for vivisection and then you might do something worthwhile. That’s not going to happen because grassroots campaign organizers are the ones who have their heads too far up their own arses. We all know how important the import/export of animals is to the vivisection industry nothing new there yet nothing is done about it and if you think this new campaign is going to do better than the Gatway campaign then you are very much mistaken.

And finally....
You need to do some research on the movement as a whole and you will see that it is the grassroots movement that has been going 30 years or so. Other mainstream groups such as the RSPCA and NAVS have been going since Victorian times. If not for the lobby tactics of the RSPCA and others we wouldn't have the animal welfare laws we have now and hunting with hounds would still be legal. PETA are quoted by many veggies and vegan as the main influence on them and I suspect you hand out many of their leaflets. The BUAV have done some of the most important work in exposing companies like HLS and did most of the leg work in investigating the primate trade so you carry on distancing your group from the majority of the movement, we like it that way!

A thought for you to go away with, why do you think groups like the BUAV and PETA have large bank accounts yet grassroots campaigns find themselves begging on the streets? Probably something to do with the public not wanting to put their money into pockets of people who would use it to intimidate families like them..

"Don't take the bait. Ignore the freak."

Just about the level of mentality we are facing. The sooner the streets are cleaned of people who support extreme actions comitted in the name of animals rights the better the movement will be all round.

If this is the best argument you can come up with then maybe you should crawl back under the stone you came from and leave it to them that can..

Do something productive and get a job.

The title describes you well previous messenger and the species imperialism you evidently embody.

Tim, I am a vegan animal rights activist and a pacifist. I am against all forms of violence against humans and none human animals..

Extremism is very much a minority pass time within the animal rights movement and the numbers are estimated to be around 25 persons who are prepaired to take part in criminal acts in the name of animal rights but we can see that there are many more who talk about it and glory from other extremists.

How can you claim to be compassionate when you condone violence towards others? Many people suffer at the hands of extremists and most of them are far removed from the vivisector who does all the cutting.

It is a reflection on you when you attack me personally because I condem extremist actions, action where activists terrorise people by sending hate mail, paint stripping cars, painting houses, smashing windows, blowing up cars on peoples drives and placing bombs on their doors steps. Make no mistake people have been hurt as a result of extremist actions and a child was hit by shrapnel after a car bomb planted by an animal right extremist went off!

If you support or take part in these actions then you should be taken off the streets for a very long time.

2006 was a good year for the fight against animal rights extremists and let's hope 2007 will be better.

NETCU are alive and kicking on this page aren't they!

Z

You say you are an animal rights activist. What form does your activism take and what results have you achieved? What are you doing apart from making suggestions that SHAC and SPEAK should end their campaigns(!) and criticizing how other people campaign. Please tell us. Thanks

I don't visit peoples family home and plant bombs on their doors step, I don't send death threats to old couples, I don't dig up dead bodies, I don't terrorise families, with a remote connection to the industry, at their homes at night.

Do you think you have to support and take part in these actions makes you an animal rights activist?

Do you think the likes of SHAC and SPEAK have done anything to change suffering for animals? If so please tell me what because from where I stand animals are still suffering in Oxford and HLS and all that these campaigns have done is set the government against us and they have dug in their heels.

What do you do?

I did not ask you what you DONT do. I made no suggestion that anyone has to take part in the activities you mention in order to qualify as an animal rights activist. You ask what SHAC and SPEAK have done to ‘change suffering for animals’ What have you done?. Please dont rant about what you dont do, tell us what you actually do that you think SHAC/SPEAK should be doing also. The government are against anyone who tries to bring about social change in a way which threatens power or profit. There is nothing new in that.

So tell us what you are doing?

If you are doing something worthwhile that is achieving a result tell us instead of ducking the question and ranting bitterly like someone who has been on the recieving end of an intimidatory campaign. Also tell us why you dont ever condemn the government or the vivisection industry in your postings on this thread. All your scorn is for activists.

Myself you have got it all wrong, I do not have to justify my activism to you or anyone because I am the one asking why I should blindly give my support to a campaign that can't produce evidence that X is dealing with Y..

I am one of the many thousands of avtivists who you call upon to write letters and turn out to demonstrations. I write these letters with my return address and often recieve replies from companies explaining they have no contact with said company and if I have no evidence I can't reply!

I also have a problem with campaign groups who glorify criminal acts on their web site. It doesn't look good when you are contacting a company and you direct them to a campaign website that posts ALF actions! It is another form of intimidation tactic.

The animal rights movement is on it's arse at the moment and it's all because of direct action tactics. Demo number are low and dropping.

We aren't winning and it's because of people like you.

You wrote

‘Myself you have got it all wrong’

No, I have only asked you a question you have failed to answer. You are good at telling people how they should not campaign but not so good at suggesting more effective ways than people who are actually doing something.

You wrote
‘I do not have to justify my activism to you or anyone because I am the one asking why I should blindly give my support to a campaign that can't produce evidence that X is dealing with Y.. ’

No one is asking you to justify your ‘activism’ even though you are asking that of others. Blindly giving your support to anything is stupid so dont do it! Simple as that.

You wrote
‘I am one of the many thousands of avtivists who you call upon to write letters and turn out to demonstrations. I write these letters with my return address and often recieve replies from companies explaining they have no contact with said company and if I have no evidence I can't reply!’

I dont ‘call upon’ you to do anything. I dont care who you are or what you do. If you have doubts about anything you are asked to do or you automatically believe ‘companies explaining they have no contact with said company’ just because they say so, that is something for you to address and come up with an alternative form of action if you really are an activist.

You wrote
‘I also have a problem with campaign groups who glorify criminal acts on their web site. It doesn't look good when you are contacting a company and you direct them to a campaign website that posts ALF actions! It is another form of intimidation tactic.’

Fair enough. Everyone has different feelings about ‘criminal acts’ just as people have different feelings about animal cruelty. So why not set up your own campaign that avoids doing all thing things you disagree with and let us know the results?

You wrote
‘The animal rights movement is on it's arse at the moment and it's all because of direct action tactics. Demo number are low and dropping.’

That is your defeatist perception of things. Demos numbers are not an indication of anything unless you are concerned with VISIBLE numbers.

You wrote
‘We aren't winning and it's because of people like you.’

A nice defeatist outlook and since you dont know me or much about me, dont blame me or other people for you own shortcomings and bitter attitude!

"No, I have only asked you a question you have failed to answer. You are good at telling people how they should not campaign but not so good at suggesting more effective ways than people who are actually doing something. "

MY REPLY:

I do not need to answer you question and I do not need to offer suggestions. I campaign legally and do not condone or support campaigns who glorify extremism.

"No one is asking you to justify your ‘activism’ even though you are asking that of others. Blindly giving your support to anything is stupid so dont do it! Simple as that."

MY REPLY: Yes you are correct, what you are doing is questioning my activism because you are of the opinion I am pro-viv and from the other side just because I speak out against extremist violence on the fringes of the animal rights movement. Yes blindly giving support is stupid and the whole point in me posting on this section of Indy, have you read what has been said?

"I dont ‘call upon’ you to do anything. I dont care who you are or what you do. If you have doubts about anything you are asked to do or you automatically believe ‘companies explaining they have no contact with said company’ just because they say so, that is something for you to address and come up with an alternative form of action if you really are an activist."

MY REPLY: No you didn't call upon me did you? But this psot by NARN is a call for action and is a blind call, read what you said about blindly supporting.. I don't need to come up with an alternative form of actin becase I am not the campaign asking for support and it is upto NARN to supply the information, that's what campaigns do!

By your logic I would write a letter get a denial for a reply and then I would have to do all the investigation to counter that denial? Get real this is not how it works!

"Fair enough. Everyone has different feelings about ‘criminal acts’ just as people have different feelings about animal cruelty. So why not set up your own campaign that avoids doing all thing things you disagree with and let us know the results?"

Yes everyone does have different feeling about criminal acts and I have expressed my feeling about campaigners who target FAMILIES in their own homes with BOMBS etc I think we can agree that 99.9999999% of people agree it is not a good thing!

"That is your defeatist perception of things. Demos numbers are not an indication of anything unless you are concerned with VISIBLE numbers."

What is this supose to mean? Not many years ago worl day demos pulled around 22,000 people and all we can muster when SPEAK call on activist are 800 or so. Pretty clear indication that people are not bothered about the issue and would rather stay at home or go shopping.. Not defeatest at all, it's fact!

"A nice defeatist outlook and since you dont know me or much about me, dont blame me or other people for you own shortcomings and bitter attitude!"

Again it is fact. Please do tell me about my short comings because I wasn't aware you knew me personally.

The animal rights movement is failing and it is because the movement has no sence of solidarity and key activist can't agree to disagree and get together to fight the industry. The movement is fragmented and is pulled between SPEAK and SHAC. It was all good when people could run around in large numbers doinf home demos and office invations but when the shit hit the fan everyone went back to their homes. When the police and government started to fight back most people went home with their tails between their legs!!

Now we are left with the internet activist who spends their time on myspace and forum proclaiming animal liberation what ever it takes. Everyone is a liberator, everyone is the "ALF" on the internet.

You get me wrong because I speak out against people who claim ALF actions when visiting peoples houses with bombs, paint, paintstripper and bricks.

I think it is wrong to do so and you think I am pro-viv because of it. Tell me alot about you.

Dear Z

Your long endlessly repetitive postings (which ignore/misinterpret most of the points raised by other posts) show that you obviously have a lot of time on your hands for someone who claims to be an activist. Your endless condemnation of ALFactions and the wider AR movement are strange. Like any coward who wishes to publicly ingratiate themselves with those who hold power you vocally condemn the lesser act ie: damage to human owned property rather than damage to the bodies of living sentient creatures. You criticize AR campaigns rather than a corrupt partisan government. You make the bizarre suggestion that SHAC and SPEAK should end their campaigns, something the vivisection industry would love to happen. You say you are an AR activist but most AR activists I have met are thoughtful intelligent people. You are neither. It is always interesting to hear someone label themselves as coming from a certain viewpoint and then like yourself argue the exact opposite. You are completely transparent.

and i don't wanna hear the same old shit

What form does your activism take and what results have you achieved?

Please tell me how you would feel if you awoke one morning to find your car damaged and your house painted? These actions are designed to instill fear and makes them a violent action against a person or persons. You can't get away from that fact.

I find it offensive you should attack another activist for their none violent views.

You may not like other peoples and just because a person has none violent views doesn't make them any less of an activist.

I am interested in what form your activism takes and what results you have achieved.