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Comments
Hide the following 28 comments
Free speech
14.03.2005 00:04
les
Never Again!
15.03.2005 18:05
No Pasaran!
Anti-Fascist
Liberal hippy crap...
16.03.2005 00:13
While obviously most people in this country treat the BNP as offensive / a joke, their presence in party politics gives legitmacy to increasingly right-wing measures from mainstream parties... New Labour's naked racism in regard to refugees for example, looks quite liberal in comparison to Griffin and co, yet its still obscene. The BNP not only affect the (thankfully as yet limited) commumnities they operate in, but they help to push the political spectrum further to the right.
All this 'free speech' crap comes across as nothing more than a gutless attempt at justifying your apathy. If you open your eyes and get out of your closeted middle-class tie-dye ghetto, you might realise that dealing with these scum is vitally important. This sort of ill-conceived naivete is kind of attitude that holds back progressive politics in this country... and if effective action / confrontation offends your tender sensebilities, then look at it this way - we do it to them or they do it to us, and while you might be happy to sip your herbal tea and muse over the coverage in The Guardian, I want to DO something to get rid of these bastards.
YORKSHIRE R.A.S.H. SKIN
freedom of speech? dont make me laugh
16.03.2005 00:35
angry gnome
More free speech
16.03.2005 17:13
les
Freedom of speech
16.03.2005 21:36
Fascist need understanding and tollerance
Me Thinks The Wanker Protesteth Too Much
16.03.2005 22:56
Anti-Fascist
bnp bollocks
17.03.2005 01:10
zero
Please Mr Anti-fascist, who can I vote for?
17.03.2005 01:32
les
You're wrong Les
17.03.2005 11:05
Domination of a physical space is one of the ways of intimidating people. The last march I went on, after local BNP councillors were elected (with my 80 year old mother, who, fought the fucking nazis in the war) was at least partly to show to the Asian people of that area that here was a white person who was willing to take over the town centre in their defence, at least for a while.
Just use your imagination for a while and think what it's like to be Black/Asian/Gay/Jewish and watch a BNP march go past. Physical presence is important. And the BNP is one we don't want. Let them stay at home with their Hitler posters. And their utterly non-sensical 'politics'.
Sorry, there is no moral, philosophical or political equivalence between the 'far right' and the 'far left'. This isn't a debating chamber where reasonable people put forward opposing views and other reasonable people consider them, then walk away thinking to themselves 'well there were good arguments on both sides'. The far right can't be called 'politics'. It's just hatred and thuggery with a rosette on.
That's what the original question was about. I suppose it's OK for them to stand at elections. But to be honest I'm not to sure abut that.
'We should allow all views, however repellent to us personally to be expressed on the streets.' - you say. Let me think then, the Jews should be gassed, women are only fit for shagging, etc. etc. These are just 'views' aren't they? So, any 'views' whatsoever? How about, 'I think we should go and kick in some Paki's, right now'. Is that just a view, an opinion?
'then vote in secret how you wish' - while you've still got a chance. That'll be the first thing they stop.
I hate to use this phrase, but the 'real world' isn't about debates, arguments, respect for others' opinions and such like. It's not a game. The sick culture of the BNP and that lot makes many people's lives a misery, here, today in your Britain. They need opposing wherever they appear, including physically on the streets of OUR country (not theirs).
Frank
You're wrong Les
17.03.2005 11:06
Just use your imagination for a while and think what it's like to be Black/Asian/Gay/Jewish and watch a BNP march go past. Physical presence is important. And the BNP is one we don't want. Let them stay at home with their Hitler posters. And their utterly non-sensical 'politics'.
Sorry, there is no moral, philosophical or political equivalence between the 'far right' and the 'far left'. This isn't a debating chamber where reasonable people put forward opposing views and other reasonable people consider them, then walk away thinking to themselves 'well there were good arguments on both sides'. The far right can't be called 'politics'. It's just hatred and thuggery with a rosette on.
That's what the original question was about. I suppose it's OK for them to stand at elections. But to be honest I'm not to sure abut that.
'We should allow all views, however repellent to us personally to be expressed on the streets.' - you say. Let me think then, the Jews should be gassed, women are only fit for shagging, etc. etc. These are just 'views' aren't they? So, any 'views' whatsoever? How about, 'I think we should go and kick in some Paki's, right now'. Is that just a view, an opinion?
'then vote in secret how you wish' - while you've still got a chance. That'll be the first thing they stop.
I hate to use this phrase, but the 'real world' isn't about debates, arguments, respect for others' opinions and such like. It's not a game. The sick culture of the BNP and that lot makes many people's lives a misery, here, today in your Britain. They need opposing wherever they appear, including physically on the streets of OUR country (not theirs).
Frank
You said it, Frank
17.03.2005 13:25
No, it's place where elitists congratulate each other about how they've protected the people of Britain from their nasty selves. I'm sure the BNP are very happy that clever people like you consider it acceptable to shove political opposition 'off the streets'. It seems to me that you and the BNP might have more in common than you realise.
les
Which side are you on?
17.03.2005 16:12
You didn't answer. Which of those gratuitously offensive opinions (the ones I made up) are OK to be expressed? Or is the opinion that all people called Les should be taken out and shot an OK opinion to express? I'm serious. You seem to have some sort of idealised notion of free speech and how it'll be OK because the 'electorate' will decide. Tell me, where is the line you would draw about which opinions are allowed to be expressed?
As long as it's not breaking the law? Well incitement to racial hatred is a crime (one which Nick Griffin is awaiting trial for) but not that long ago it wasn't. And you know what? People like you would have said that we didn't need it, because 'oh of course nobody takes it seriously'... etc. etc.
I'm not part of any 'elite'. Where did you get that idea? You're reading a great deal more into this than actually exists. This is the first time I've posted here. I'm not a member of any political party. I'm not a union activist. But I believe in showing solidarity and expressing my views. I will support the ANL in their activities, especially by demonstrating. Because at the moment they seem like the largest organisation involved in direct, highly visible opposition to the BNP. Visit their site. The next time there's a demonstration why don't you go on it? To show you oppose the BNP. Unless you support the BNP of course. Or perhaps you'd just rather 'think' about it. Combat 18 and the others who want to beat my family up love people like you. Thinkers they can deal with.
I was drawn to investigate on line far right activities a few days ago when I saw a relative on the redwatch site. It's perfectly clear what the point of that site is.
As far as the BNP and fellow travellers are concerned I can't see the debate. They're an evil, ugly, nasty bunch of fascists who love it when people like you quote the Rousseau nonsense at them. They need to be opposed in every way at every opportunity.
Fascists - you're with 'em or you're against 'em.
Frank
Oh dear.
17.03.2005 19:47
Anyway, sounds like BNP sympathising rather than 'liberal' to me. When was the last time a liberal denied knowledge of the BNP's illegal activity or rather, dismissed the topic as if it never existed?
Hugh Jass
You're More Than Wrong Les
17.03.2005 22:59
But what's this drivel anyway. Most people have absolutely no control over their lives, and voting Labour or Tory will make absolutely no difference to them. Who are they going to vote for, racist New Labour, racist Tories, the fascist BNP, or one or other tiny fringe group who don't own the press. That isn't any kind of choice. You talk about 'freedom of speech' Les as if we lived in a representative democracy, not a Police State which imprisons people without trial, and has the power to lock people in their own homes without even offering any evidence against them. Being given a chance to put a cross on a piece of paper every 4 or 5 years is not democracy, it's window-dresing, a circus. And with the drivel you've been posting on this site Les, trying to distract anti-fascists from mobilising against the BNP, you're more than a clown, you're scum. Why don't you start posting to the BNP or WNP sites instead?
Anti-Fascist
Still In Denial?
17.03.2005 23:38
"MY PHILOSOPHY BRINGS THE TRIUMPANT IDEA OF WHICH ALL OTHER MODES OF THOUGHT WILL ULTIMATELY PERISH. IT IS THE GREAT CULTIVATING IDEA: THE RACES THAT CANNOT BEAR IT STAND CONDEMNED: THOSE WHO FIND IT THE GREATEST BENEFIT ARE CHOSEN TO RULE."
But then even Les can't be clueless enough never to have heard of the Holocaust (unless he's in denial about that too) - Not just Jews, but gypsies, black people, trade unionists, communists, socialists, anarchists, even liberals.
As Hitler admitted, if the Nazis had been confronted and smashed in their earliest days, they would have got nowhere, millions of people wouldn't have been slaughtered in the most degrading manner possible. But no doubt there was some German equivalents of Les rattling on about 'free speech' while whole sections of the German working-class were already being transported to concentration camps.
Anti-fascists aren't an 'elite' Les, there are millions of us all over the world, and we're determined that this Never happen Again.
Anti-Fascist
Les go buy a guardian and eat some flap jack
18.03.2005 11:44
Herbert Read
It's already 'Happening Again'
19.03.2005 13:38
Mr Herbert Read, if you read my posts carefully it should be fairly obvious that I'm not offering you my 'support or approval'. I disapprove of you and your kind. You want to silence people you don't approve of. Fascists have a track record of doing that.
I suggest you, Mr Anti-fascist and Mr Herbert Read, in your infinite wisdom, are gracious enough to let the BNP remain on the streets. Perhaps the BNP's total lack of political power in this country can be explained by the fact that it is successful in getting its message across to the Great British electorate. I doubt you will agree with this interpretation. You, in your elitist way, assume that if the BNP gets its message across, more people are likely to vote for it. That is the low opinion you have of your fellow citizens. It's only a short jump from having a low opinion of most other people to believing oneself to be part of a chosen few, or 'master race'. And we all know where that can lead, don't we?
Les
So what's the answer...
19.03.2005 14:47
What plans are there to oppose the BNP on April 6th?
And what are the BNP planning anyway, and why?
Frank
Fuck You Les
19.03.2005 17:05
Anti-Fascist
Ooh! You're so rude
19.03.2005 19:38
les
Um...
19.03.2005 21:54
Hugh Jass
I Luv Nazis
21.03.2005 23:54
Les
Very productive comment, Les
23.03.2005 14:57
Regarding the original question - I'd suggest spreading the word. Let's make our counter-demo ten times the size of theirs!
Ketlan
e-mail:
ketlan@gmail.com
More details
23.03.2005 15:13
The four arrested nationalists have to appear at different times beginning with John Tyndall at 10.30am, through Griffin, Collett and ending with Tom Linden at 4 pm. Which raises several issues: Will the Tyndall supporters disperse after their man has made his appearance or will they stay to support Griffin, Collett, and Linden?
Halifax nick is at
Richmond Close
Halifax
HX1 5TW
Ketlan
e-mail:
ketlan@gmail.com
words fail...
31.03.2005 11:47
words fail- its a tactic they have used for the last 10 years- not currently- for 10 years- since they were forced fromt he streets by AFA. And its working- due to in the most part the useless searchlight grasses from leeds and huddersfield AFA who were rightly kicked out of AFA in 1994/1995 failing to adopt the politicla stratiegies needed to oppose them
Jim Page
dear oh dear....
31.03.2005 11:52
"While obviously most people in this country treat the BNP as offensive / a joke"
Have you been asleep for the last 4 years? What say you on their increasing % vote in Yorkshire- which was topped off by their results in the Euro elections -when they polled over 10% in rotherham, calderdale,wakefield, kirklees and bradford?
Why are you sticking your head in the sand rather than adopting the politicl strategies needed to stop them? Too busy waiting around for a non-0 existent return to the streets, or arguing that the BNPs euronationalist tactics are only tempoary?
or too busy hanging out with the searchlight grasses which seem to infest yorskhire....
Jim Page
Frank YOU ARE!!!
22.05.2005 21:36
You are what all of the above people call a yoghurt.
Max
Maximus